Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[Old Red]

Yeah, the 96 RBI were a fluke, as RBI often are. But of course some folks are going to fixate on certain numbers.

 

Yes the 96 RBI was a career year, or fluke by Renfroe, but the point was the Red Sox with a razor thin margin just to get into the post season needed all of those 96 RBI to do so, and even if Renfroe came back, or JBJ takes his place they may need the same kind of production to make it again, and not if Renfroe would have 96 RBI again, which he probably won’t.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes the 96 RBI was a career year, or fluke by Renfroe, but the point was the Red Sox with a razor thin margin just to get into the post season needed all of those 96 RBI to do so, and even if Renfroe came back, or JBJ takes his place they may need the same kind of production to make it again, and not if Renfroe would have 96 RBI again, which he probably won’t.

 

I get what you're saying, but every year is different. And JBJ's upgrade on defense over Renfroe could win a game or two.

 

And Bloom still has more work to do, presumably.

[moonslav59]

The trade o f Renfroe only makes sense if the Sox plan to get a replacement such as Suzuki. JBJ doesn't fit the need and was far too expensive for a 4th outfielder. I don't see the others we picked up as making up for the value difference. Perhaps Renfroe won't repeat his gaudy numbers, but still I didn't like the trade.

 

Yes we need 2nd base help, 1st base help and perhaps catching help. There may be ways to obtain that internally. Our biggest need is still with pitching. i don't think Bloom's acquisitions have solidified our starting rotation or BP. I am also a doubter about the timing of the end of the lockout. Until then, nothing can happen that will allow Bloom to improve the team. All the talk is nothing more than speculation. Bloom seldom does what the fans speculate that he should do.

 

We can be right by speculating Bloom will not do what we expect.

[oldtimer]

We can be right by speculating Bloom will not do what we expect.

 

That is true. It's fun to speculate but not very useful.

[moonslav59]

That is true. It's fun to speculate but not very useful.

 

I don't think 1 or 2 of the 3 pitchers he signed were all that surprising.

 

Getting all 3 was, to me.

 

The JBJ trade was surprising, but I think Bloom must really like the prospects more than any of us do, so I guess this might be like the Ottavino deal from last winter.

 

Signing Suzuki or Story would be a big surprise on the other end of the spectrum. I don't expect either one to be in a Sox uniform, next year.

[oldtimer]

I don't think 1 or 2 of the 3 pitchers he signed were all that surprising.

 

Getting all 3 was, to me.

 

The JBJ trade was surprising, but I think Bloom must really like the prospects more than any of us do, so I guess this might be like the Ottavino deal from last winter.

 

Signing Suzuki or Story would be a big surprise on the other end of the spectrum. I don't expect either one to be in a Sox uniform, next year.

 

Suzuki is the most likely since he would be around for multiple years at a more reasonable cost and right field is a real need. Unfortunately, there will be a lot of competition for him.

[mvp 78]

Yes the 96 RBI was a career year, or fluke by Renfroe, but the point was the Red Sox with a razor thin margin just to get into the post season needed all of those 96 RBI to do so, and even if Renfroe came back, or JBJ takes his place they may need the same kind of production to make it again, and not if Renfroe would have 96 RBI again, which he probably won’t.

 

Yet, if they can improve upon starting pitchers like Perez, Richards, PEACOCK, et al, AND not have a COVID outbreak in 2022, maybe the margin wouldn't be so slim even if they replace Renfroe with JBJ.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yet, if they can improve upon starting pitchers like Perez, Richards, PEACOCK, et al, AND not have a COVID outbreak in 2022, maybe the margin wouldn't be so slim even if they replace Renfroe with JBJ.

 

Wacha, Hill and Pax-be-with-you-in-'23?

 

If that's not Ray Gulp (as in the Kool-Aid), it's at least Ray Ulp.

[mvp 78]

Wacha, Hill and Pax-be-with-you-in-'23?

 

If that's not Ray Gulp (as in the Kool-Aid), it's at least Ray Ulp.

 

I don't think Bloom is done adding to the 40 man roster this offseason. He still has work to do.

[moonslav59]

Wacha, Hill and Pax-be-with-you-in-'23?

 

If that's not Ray Gulp (as in the Kool-Aid), it's at least Ray Ulp.

 

While the three Bloom signed do not look all that good, it should not be real difficult to improve on Perez(114 IP) , Richards (137), Andriese (37) and a bunch of scrubs totaling about 100 IP.

 

It's replacing ERod (158) and to some extent Ottavino (62) that seems more difficult, but then again, their 2021 numbers don't seem too hard to replace:

ERA/WHIP

4.74/1.39 ERod

4.21/1.45 Ottavino

 

Bloom has said he plans on addressing the pen before opening day- whenever that is.

 

If we can add a couple solid pen arms and someone like Suzuki, I can't see how anyone can say we took a step back or sideways- overall.

 

Possible 26 Man:

 

Eovaldi, Sale, Hill, Pivetta, Wacha (Paxton IL)

Houck, Whitlock, FA, FA, Barnes, Taylor, Brasier, DHern/Sawamura/Davis/Valdez/Bazardo

 

1. Kike 2B/CF

2. Devers 3B

3. JD DH

4. Bogey SS

5. Verdugo LF

6. Suzuki RF

7. Dalbec 1B (July? Casas)

8. JBJ CF/Arroyo 2B (platoon: see Kike's positions)

9. Vazquez (Plawecki)

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by moonslav59

[notin]

While the three Bloom signed do not look all that good, it should not be real difficult to improve on Perez(114 IP) , Richards (137), Andriese (37) and a bunch of scrubs totaling about 100 IP.

 

It's replacing ERod (158) and to some extent Ottavino (62) that seems more difficult, but then again, their 2021 numbers don't seem too hard to replace:

ERA/WHIP

4.74/1.39 ERod

4.21/1.45 Ottavino

 

Bloom has said he plans on addressing the pen before opening day- whenever that is.

 

If we can add a couple solid pen arms and someone like Suzuki, I can't see how anyone can say we took a step back or sideways- overall.

 

Possible 26 Man:

 

Eovaldi, Sale, Hill, Pivetta, Wacha (Paxton IL)

Houck, Whitlock, FA, FA, Barnes, Taylor, Brasier, DHern/Sawamura/Davis/Valdez/Bazardo

 

1. Kike 2B/CF

2. Devers 3B

3. JD DH

4. Bogey SS

5. Verdugo LF

6. Suzuki RF

7. Dalbec 1B (July? Casas)

8. JBJ CF/Arroyo 2B (platoon: see Kike's positions)

9. Vazquez (Plawecki)

 

 

Of course his signings were unimpressive. He was looking for discounts before he knew what the new rules he was going to have to play by were established.

 

I have no idea if a new CBA means his budget will go up, down, or stay the same, but it does make sense that a team like Boston that was already up against the previous tax limit might want to hold back a bit until at least seeing what the new limit (if any?) is…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

While the three Bloom signed do not look all that good, it should not be real difficult to improve on Perez(114 IP) , Richards (137), Andriese (37) and a bunch of scrubs totaling about 100 IP.

 

It's replacing ERod (158) and to some extent Ottavino (62) that seems more difficult, but then again, their 2021 numbers don't seem too hard to replace:

ERA/WHIP

4.74/1.39 ERod

4.21/1.45 Ottavino

 

Bloom has said he plans on addressing the pen before opening day- whenever that is.

 

If we can add a couple solid pen arms and someone like Suzuki, I can't see how anyone can say we took a step back or sideways- overall.

 

Possible 26 Man:

 

Eovaldi, Sale, Hill, Pivetta, Wacha (Paxton IL)

Houck, Whitlock, FA, FA, Barnes, Taylor, Brasier, DHern/Sawamura/Davis/Valdez/Bazardo

 

1. Kike 2B/CF

2. Devers 3B

3. JD DH

4. Bogey SS

5. Verdugo LF

6. Suzuki RF

7. Dalbec 1B (July? Casas)

8. JBJ CF/Arroyo 2B (platoon: see Kike's positions)

9. Vazquez (Plawecki)

 

 

Regarding ERod, I won't miss watching him pitch. But the Red Sox still need to replace his innings with someone a notch above mediocrity. A combination of swingman Wacha, ancient Rich Hill and part-time Paxton won't do it... because as much time as young ERod always seemed to miss, he still ate innings when healthy.

[Bellhorn04]

It's replacing ERod (158) and to some extent Ottavino (62) that seems more difficult, but then again, their 2021 numbers don't seem too hard to replace:

ERA/WHIP

4.74/1.39 ERod

 

If you use the old-schooly numbers, sure. Based on new-schooly numbers we have to replace an fWAR of 3.8.

[moonslav59]

Of course his signings were unimpressive. He was looking for discounts before he knew what the new rules he was going to have to play by were established.

 

I have no idea if a new CBA means his budget will go up, down, or stay the same, but it does make sense that a team like Boston that was already up against the previous tax limit might want to hold back a bit until at least seeing what the new limit (if any?) is…

 

The Perez, Richards, Andriese and Sawamura signing were no more impressive, and we ended up doing well, despite their lack of solid production.

 

I'm hopeful we add 2 more solid pen arms-perhaps by trade.

[moonslav59]

Regarding ERod, I won't miss watching him pitch. But the Red Sox still need to replace his innings with someone a notch above mediocrity. A combination of swingman Wacha, ancient Rich Hill and part-time Paxton won't do it... because as much time as young ERod always seemed to miss, he still ate innings when healthy.

 

These three can eat ERod's & Ottavino's innings, but there are hundreds of other innings needed to be replaced, too- inning of less than mediocrity.

[moonslav59]

If you use the old-schooly numbers, sure. Based on new-schooly numbers we have to replace an fWAR of 3.8.

 

Certainly yes! (2.7 bWAR, BTW)

 

ERA+

113 Ottavino

109 Robles

100 ERod

100 Perez

97 Richards

97 Rios

97 Workman

79 Andriese

64 Brice

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

It's not inconceivable that Bloom signs Ottavino or Robles, if the price is right.

[mvp 78]

Of course his signings were unimpressive. He was looking for discounts before he knew what the new rules he was going to have to play by were established.

 

I have no idea if a new CBA means his budget will go up, down, or stay the same, but it does make sense that a team like Boston that was already up against the previous tax limit might want to hold back a bit until at least seeing what the new limit (if any?) is…

 

He's made a ton of "unimpressive" moves. Some of them have worked out well (i.e. Renfroe) and some have fallen flat (i.e. Marwin). It's just the way he does business.

[mvp 78]

It's not inconceivable that Bloom signs Ottavino or Robles, if the price is right.

 

I think Ottavino should be much cheaper in 2022.

[moonslav59]

I think Ottavino should be much cheaper in 2022.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing him and/or Robles back, at the right price.

[moonslav59]

He's made a ton of "unimpressive" moves. Some of them have worked out well (i.e. Renfroe) and some have fallen flat (i.e. Marwin). It's just the way he does business.

 

Yes, it's quantity vs quality.

 

I think he's just hoping 1 or 2 from Hill, Wacha and Paxton do well or plus.

[Larry Cook]

Does having a bunch of mediocre talent keep us from giving our youngsters a chance to show what they can do in Boston?

[Bellhorn04]

Does having a bunch of mediocre talent keep us from giving our youngsters a chance to show what they can do in Boston?

 

Nope.

[moonslav59]

Does having a bunch of mediocre talent keep us from giving our youngsters a chance to show what they can do in Boston?

 

If a youngster is doing well enough and is ML ready, we’ll have plenty of open slots for him or them.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Does having a bunch of mediocre talent keep us from giving our youngsters a chance to show what they can do in Boston?

 

If the mediocrity is bench depth or platooners (some of the ways it plays on good teams), it can actually protect youngsters, by easing their transition into the bigs, especially if they struggle early on.

 

However, on some bad teams, the best guys are often mediocre, including a lot top prospects... at least for their first few years of on-the-job training.

[notin]

Does having a bunch of mediocre talent keep us from giving our youngsters a chance to show what they can do in Boston?

 

The Sox lineup doesn’t have too many holes where the farm has superior. Maybe 1b. That’s about it…

[moonslav59]

The Sox lineup doesn’t have too many holes where the farm has superior. Maybe 1b. That’s about it…

 

Agreed.

 

The second best chance of a prospect winning a ft or platoon slot might be Duran, but batting left makes a platoon role look like a long shot.

 

Maybe Wong or Hernández could beat out Plawecki as the back up catcher.

[notin]

Agreed.

 

The second best chance of a prospect winning a ft or platoon slot might be Duran, but batting left makes a platoon role look like a long shot.

 

Maybe Wong or Hernández could beat out Plawecki as the back up catcher.

 

The Sox reached an agreement with Plawecki. He’sa done deal and one they can’t get out of. They can’t even release him and only pay 10%.

 

Duran maybe can make the team, but right now his problem isn’t that he’s blocked. With no real 2b starter, the current Sox alignment might be Kike (2b), Bradley (CF) and Verdugo (RF). Duran isn’t really blocked from LF by anyone…

[moonslav59]

The Sox reached an agreement with Plawecki. He’sa done deal and one they can’t get out of. They can’t even release him and only pay 10%.

 

Duran maybe can make the team, but right now his problem isn’t that he’s blocked. With no real 2b starter, the current Sox alignment might be Kike (2b), Bradley (CF) and Verdugo (RF). Duran isn’t really blocked from LF by anyone…

 

They could trade Plawecki, or he could get hurt or suck enough to get replaced. Or Vaz could get hurt.

[notin]

They could trade Plawecki, or he could get hurt or suck enough to get replaced. Or Vaz could get hurt.

 

 

All that could happen to anyone, but when people talk about prospects being blocked, rarely are they referring to backup catcher…