The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

The Sox have had the DH position pretty well locked up the last 20 years with Ortiz, and JD, so now maybe it is time not to have a full time DH, and spread the AB around. Of course you have to have the bats first to do that.

 

I'm fine with that idea, and if Casas and Dalbec can keep hitting, we may have a front runner for the majority of DH playing time in Dalbec, at least vs LHPs.

 

Devers could use some "rest time" at DH.

 

If Duran can't improve his defense and starts to hit, he could get some time there, too.

[moonslav59]

Chaim Bloom is a genius. He is cleverly allowing other teams to decimate their farms and blow up their payrolls in a quest for glory , while he slowly restocks our farm , saves money and rebuilds a team that four years ago was one of the best , if not the best, ever. Simply brilliant.

 

If you are being sarcastic, which is hard to tell, he did not take over from the 2018 team. He took over after the 2019 season. Big difference, despite the fact that the rosters were similar in some ways.

 

The spending was cut.

 

Players aged and left for free agency.

 

"Genius" or "brilliant?" I hesitate to say either, but he has done what he was asked to do and more.

 

While rebuilding the farm and 40 man roster depth, we were 2 games away from the WS. That is a hell of a lot better than the 2019 season.

[Old Red]

Starting Rotation Season Opener

 

2022 vs 2021

 

Eovaldi vs Eovaldi

Sale vs E Rod

Pivetta vs Pivetta

Wacha vs Richards

Hill vs Perez

 

Sale made his debut on August 14th and started 9 regular season games.

 

I just don't understand the 'panic' on this board.

 

Moon, Eovaldi, Pivetta and Sale (thr 8/14) has chance to be better than Eovaldi, Pivetta and E Rod (thr 8/14) of 2021.

 

I'd say Wacha/Hill combo versus Richards/Perez is a wash.

 

I would also contend that we have more starting options in 2022 than in 2021.

 

I won't even bring up Paxton because a Yankee fan told me he's brittle or something.

 

Why the panic?

 

Losing ERod is even bigger now. You can NEVER have enough pitching. Why the panic. Losing Sale is why.

[dgalehouse]

As much as I liked Schwarber, and we'd have to do positional cartwheels to get him FT play, that's too much to spend for a guy who would have been our DH for 3 of those 4 seasons.

 

The spin doctor.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm trying to stay optimistic, but with Sale now starting the year on the IL, it's hard.

 

 

I think too many people were counting too much on Sale returning to glory and leading the staff. It just feels like tracking down an old high school fling after all these years, and if the result isn't eee-gads, it's just underwhelming.

 

But I also think the front office knew better, and just used the public promise of Sale to save from spending on any actually decent arms for the rotation. Now they're looking at 2020 again -- no Sale, no ERod -- just Eovaldi and a bunch of castoffs. The only longshot hope is that Houck and Whitlock transition into fulltime starters and pitch as well as they did last year.

[moonslav59]

The spin doctor.

 

What am I spinning?

 

I never thought Schwarber was a good fit for 2022 and beyond.

 

I like the guy as much and anyone, but we have bigger holes at other positions. No spin- just reality.

[moonslav59]

I think too many people were counting too much on Sale returning to glory and leading the staff. It just feels like tracking down an old high school fling after all these years, and if the result isn't eee-gads, it's just underwhelming.

 

But I also think the front office knew better, and just used the public promise of Sale to save from spending on any actually decent arms for the rotation. Now they're looking at 2020 again -- no Sale, no ERod -- just Eovaldi and a bunch of castoffs. The only longshot hope is that Houck and Whitlock transition into fulltime starters and pitch as well as they did last year.

 

Sale was the only promise to cling to, despite us all knowing the fragility of such a hope.

 

There is still hope we get more from him than 2021, and it's not like ERod was lighting the world on fire for the first 8 weeks of 2021.

 

That being said, a dark cloud is hanging over Red Sox Nation for 2022.

 

The Suzuki and McHugh hopes are gone. No big trade seems to be looming.

 

We have $16M to spend and nothing out there for that money that will turn us into top 4 contenders in the AL, IMO.

 

To me, our roster looks like it's borderline fire sale mode. Just go for 2023 and trade Bogey, JD, Nate and Kike and just admit 2023 is a pipe dream.

 

(Did I just say that out loud? LOL!)

[dgalehouse]

If you are being sarcastic, which is hard to tell, he did not take over from the 2018 team. He took over after the 2019 season. Big difference, despite the fact that the rosters were similar in some ways.

 

The spending was cut.

 

Players aged and left for free agency.

 

"Genius" or "brilliant?" I hesitate to say either, but he has done what he was asked to do and more.

 

While rebuilding the farm and 40 man roster depth, we were 2 games away from the WS. That is a hell of a lot better than the 2019 season.

 

Hard to tell ????

[moonslav59]

Hard to tell ????

 

I don't keep track of who the doom and gloomers are.

 

Duly noted.

 

Why act like Bloom took the 2018 team to this, when he started after 2019?

[mvp 78]

I don't keep track of who the doom and gloomers are.

 

Duly noted.

 

Why act like Bloom took the 2018 team to this, when he started after 2019?

 

Last year's team still got to the ALCS. He's going to need to fall on his face before my gut stops saying "he knows about this s*** much more than any of us dopes."

[moonslav59]

Last year's team still got to the ALCS. He's going to need to fall on his face before my gut stops saying "he knows about this s*** much more than any of us dopes."

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

2021> 2019

 

2022 and beyond outlook> 2020 and beyond outlook

 

How can anyone view this as doing a bad job?

[Old Red]

Sale was the only promise to cling to, despite us all knowing the fragility of such a hope.

 

There is still hope we get more from him than 2021, and it's not like ERod was lighting the world on fire for the first 8 weeks of 2021.

 

That being said, a dark cloud is hanging over Red Sox Nation for 2022.

 

The Suzuki and McHugh hopes are gone. No big trade seems to be looming.

 

We have $16M to spend and nothing out there for that money that will turn us into top 4 contenders in the AL, IMO.

 

To me, our roster looks like it's borderline fire sale mode. Just go for 2023 and trade Bogey, JD, Nate and Kike and just admit 2023 is a pipe dream.

 

(Did I just say that out loud? LOL!)

 

I think the only starter you could have been counting on before Sale even got hurt was Evol. Yes people were hoping that Sale could get back to his old self, but nobody knows, and to me he was still a big question mark .Pivetta, Hill, and Whacka all big ifs, and that goes for Barnes, Houck who has been very inconsistent, and just, because Whitlock had a good year last year doesn’t mean he’ll do it again in the pen, or especially a starter.

[moonslav59]

I think the only starter you could have been counting on before Sale even got hurt was Evol. Yes people were hoping that Sale could get back to his old self, but nobody knows, and to me he was still a big question mark .Pivetta, Hill, and Whacka all big ifs, and that goes for Barnes, Houck who has been very inconsistent, and just, because Whitlock had a good year last year doesn’t mean he’ll do it again in the pen, or especially a starter.

 

And, expecting Nate to repeat his career best season is probably asking too much, as well.

 

I understand doubting Houck and Whitlock, but every team has pitchers like them and are thinking positively about them.

 

While Houck's end of 2021 looked a bit shaky (4.15 ERA after Aug 8), his other numbers were not all that inconsistent.

 

.620 OPS against

.220 BA against

 

He did very well in the playoffs, too, except for one unfortunate inning v the Astros

[moonslav59]

I think the only starter you could have been counting on before Sale even got hurt was Evol.

 

How many starters can the Yanks count on for 2022?

 

The Astros?

 

The Jays?

 

The White Sox?

 

Some may have 2, but nobody looks flush.

[Old Red]

And, expecting Nate to repeat his career best season is probably asking too much, as well.

 

I understand doubting Houck and Whitlock, but every team has pitchers like them and are thinking positively about them.

 

While Houck's end of 2021 looked a bit shaky (4.15 ERA after Aug 8), his other numbers were not all that inconsistent.

 

.620 OPS against

.220 BA against

 

He did very well in the playoffs, too, except for one unfortunate inning v the Astros

 

I’m not thinking Evol would repeat last season, but barring injury would be counted on to be the most consistent. I think Houck could be great, but his inconsistency is holding him back, and needs another pitch. I also want to see Whitlock one more year, before he’s judged on how good he can be.

[Bellhorn04]

While rebuilding the farm and 40 man roster depth, we were 2 games away from the WS. That is a hell of a lot better than the 2019 season.

 

Apples and oranges though. Everything went wrong in 2019. Can't see how that was DD's fault. It was virtually the same team that won 108 and the WS in 2018.

[mvp 78]

Apples and oranges though. Everything went wrong in 2019. Can't see how that was DD's fault. It was virtually the same team that won 108 and the WS in 2018.

 

Agreed.

[Old Red]

How many starters can the Yanks count on for 2022?

 

The Astros?

 

The Jays?

 

The White Sox?

 

Some may have 2, but nobody looks flush.

 

Yes, but at the moment the Sox don’t have two. How many of these staffs would you not take over the Red Sox?

[notin]

Apples and oranges though. Everything went wrong in 2019. Can't see how that was DD's fault. It was virtually the same team that won 108 and the WS in 2018.

 

Maybe everything went right in 2018? Not like the preseason expectations for that team were all that lofty…

[moonslav59]

Apples and oranges though. Everything went wrong in 2019. Can't see how that was DD's fault. It was virtually the same team that won 108 and the WS in 2018.

 

Yes, it's apples to oranges, and I admit the 2019 26 man roster looked better than the 2021 26 man roster at the start of the season, but the rest of the 40 man and the farm and finances looked worse.

 

BTW, no Kimbrel (42 saves), Kelly and Nunez was significant.

 

No doubt, DD was not to blame, as his spending was cut off after 2018, too.

[moonslav59]

Yes, but at the moment the Sox don’t have two. How many of these staffs would you not take over the Red Sox?

 

Of those teams? All look better, but all have serious questions, too.

[Old Red]

Of those teams? All look better, but all have serious questions, too.

 

It’s a sign of the times that there aren’t no great pitching staffs anymore, but like you said all look better than the Sox.

[dgalehouse]

2019 was not a shock to me. I could see the storm clouds gathering during the off season. The bullpen was totally ignored. Big mistake. Sure enough , the pen became a major problem area. When a couple of the starters struggled , it was doom.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How many starters can the Yanks count on for 2022?

 

The Astros?

 

The Jays?

 

The White Sox?

 

Some may have 2, but nobody looks flush.

 

Houston: Framber, Luis the dancer, McCullers, Odorizzi, Verlander

 

Toronto: Gausman, Berrios, Ryu, Manoah, Kikuchi

 

... which one of these guys isn't as good or better than Pivetta, Hill, Wacha and half a Paxton?

 

At least we've got a guy who had a perfect game going against the team with the best hitter... until they yanked him after five.

[mvp 78]

Houston: Framber, Luis the dancer, McCullers, Odorizzi, Verlander

 

Toronto: Gausman, Berrios, Ryu, Manoah, Kikuchi

 

... which one of these guys isn't as good or better than Pivetta, Hill, Wacha and half a Paxton?

 

At least we've got a guy who had a perfect game going against the team with the best hitter... until they yanked him after five.

 

I'd take Pivetta over Kikuchi and Odorizzi.

[mvp 78]

@JonHeyman

Red Sox sign RHP Dan Altavilla to a two year minor league contract. Recovering from 2021 Tommy John surgery but could be a factor in second half of this season.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe everything went right in 2018? Not like the preseason expectations for that team were all that lofty…

 

They had won the division 2 years in a row and added J. D. Martinez, so expectations were fairly high, I think.

[Old Red]

According to Heyman the Rays are still in on Freeman. How would that look if they outbid the Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers?

[moonslav59]

Houston: Framber, Luis the dancer, McCullers, Odorizzi, Verlander

 

Toronto: Gausman, Berrios, Ryu, Manoah, Kikuchi

 

... which one of these guys isn't as good or better than Pivetta, Hill, Wacha and half a Paxton?

 

At least we've got a guy who had a perfect game going against the team with the best hitter... until they yanked him after five.

 

I've answered I'd take all these teams rotations over ours. My point was that very few have more than just one sure-fire & solid SP'er with no of very few question marks.

[moonslav59]

According to Heyman the Rays are still in on Freeman. How would that look if they outbid the Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers?

 

Apparently, the Rays are offering the world on a 1 year deal.

 

I'd prefer we not outbid them for a 1Bman.