The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If Bogaerts' future profile indeed trends to a move off shortstop -- to 2nd or 3rd or LF -- I don't see an opt out resulting in any GM giving him a giant Tatis or Lindor-type contract. Tatis, who at age 22 already moved for a spell to right field, isn't maybe a good Xander comp anyway... leading the league in home runs at age 22.

 

It could be X opts out just to get a decent raise and extension to stay where he really wants to, in Boston. The total dollars and years will certainly be affected by what happens in the upcoming agreements, between owners, unions, and ultimately, free agent shortstops.

[moonslav59]

If Bogaerts' future profile indeed trends to a move off shortstop -- to 2nd or 3rd or LF -- I don't see an opt out resulting in any GM giving him a giant Tatis or Lindor-type contract. Tatis, who at age 22 already moved for a spell to right field, isn't maybe a good Xander comp anyway... leading the league in home runs at age 22.

 

It could be X opts out just to get a decent raise and extension to stay where he really wants to, in Boston. The total dollars and years will certainly be affected by what happens in the upcoming agreements, between owners, unions, and ultimately, free agent shortstops.

 

I realize being a SS helps your value, but unless a GM thinks you are a significant plus value on defense, I'm not sure moving to 2B or 3B would drop his value from where GMs place it, now.

 

The talk of signing Semien interests me, but almost everyone says Semien could play 2B, until Bogey moves on. I'd play Semien at SS and move Bogey to 2B for 2022 or just trade Bogey.

[notin]

As I remember our last 3 games of the ALCS, we lost because we couldn't hit. Our pitching was solid except for one inning a game. Renfroe was a sure out, sometimes two. Dalbec wasn't used. I take the position that we would be smart to add a top FA outfielder and trade Renfroe or at least move him to the 4th slot. We could do better at 1st base but Dalbec at least should he kept.

 

Where are the guys like Rod Carew and Cecil Cooper, who were hitting machines. Need to stop swinging for the fences and go back to moving the line.

 

Notin seems to have something negative to say about Duran with every post. He still is our best outfield prospect and hardly got his feet wet in 2021. I'm for keeping him as our 4th outfielder. He would be inexpensive and could surprise in 2022.

 

I’ve said Duran isn’t a good defensive outfielder. I’m not alone in saying. In fact, pretty much everyone who’s ever seen him play says it about him.

 

I am all for trading him because I think he can get back something decent and there is no place for him in the Sox starting outfield. Making him a 4th outfielder where he gets maybe 100 PA a season is actually much worse than anything I’ve ever said about him.

 

Believe it or not, calling a player trade bait is a bigger compliment than calling him bench material. At least I think he could start somewhere. Specifically in Oakland…

[moonslav59]

I’ve said Duran isn’t a good defensive outfielder. I’m not alone in saying. In fact, pretty much everyone who’s ever seen him play says it about him.

 

I am all for trading him because I think he can get back something decent and there is no place for him in the Sox starting outfield. Making him a 4th outfielder where he gets maybe 100 PA a season is actually much worse than anything I’ve ever said about him.

 

Believe it or not, calling a player trade bait is a bigger compliment than calling him bench material. At least I think he could start somewhere. Specifically in Oakland…

 

When you look at who we want back for Duran, it's actually a huge compliment to his value.

 

Nobody wants to hand him away for nothing.

 

With JD able to play OF, and Schwarber in many posters eyes, Duran would hardly play.

 

Now, Kike is a FA after 2022, so if that is on people's minds, then there is value keeping Duran around, but for all the grief we hards about keeping him in the minors, this year, how does it make sense to not play him in 2022 or keep him in AAA all year?

[notin]

When you look at who we want back for Duran, it's actually a huge compliment to his value.

 

Nobody wants to hand him away for nothing.

 

With JD able to play OF, and Schwarber in many posters eyes, Duran would hardly play.

 

Now, Kike is a FA after 2022, so if that is on people's minds, then there is value keeping Duran around, but for all the grief we hards about keeping him in the minors, this year, how does it make sense to not play him in 2022 or keep him in AAA all year?

 

Some people do still trades are to get rid of people and not primarily to get anything back.

 

Now ZIPS hates Duran, projecting him to be worth 1.5 fWAR over the next 3 seasons. BTV gives him a surplus value of $23.5 mill, which is probably reasonable…

[mvp 78]

Losing him for a draft pick isn't necessarily a disaster.

 

If he is outwardly saying that he's looking to move on, I guess you can move him to 2b if you find a better SS this offseason.

[mvp 78]

If Bogaerts' future profile indeed trends to a move off shortstop -- to 2nd or 3rd or LF -- I don't see an opt out resulting in any GM giving him a giant Tatis or Lindor-type contract. Tatis, who at age 22 already moved for a spell to right field, isn't maybe a good Xander comp anyway... leading the league in home runs at age 22.

 

It could be X opts out just to get a decent raise and extension to stay where he really wants to, in Boston. The total dollars and years will certainly be affected by what happens in the upcoming agreements, between owners, unions, and ultimately, free agent shortstops.

 

I like Xander, but I think his overall value is lower than the other SS options on the market right now (Story, Seager, Correa, Semien). I'd have him above Baez though.

[mvp 78]

I’ve said Duran isn’t a good defensive outfielder. I’m not alone in saying. In fact, pretty much everyone who’s ever seen him play says it about him.

 

I am all for trading him because I think he can get back something decent and there is no place for him in the Sox starting outfield. Making him a 4th outfielder where he gets maybe 100 PA a season is actually much worse than anything I’ve ever said about him.

 

Believe it or not, calling a player trade bait is a bigger compliment than calling him bench material. At least I think he could start somewhere. Specifically in Oakland…

 

Duran/Mata

for

Mountcastle

 

Duran/Jimenez

for

Manea/Bassitt

[moonslav59]

Some team that does not want to lock up a top SS for 6+ years and sees their window winding down might prefer trading for Boegy over signing a SS.

 

Don't ask me who that is. I don't know.

 

Here's a blockbuster BTV accepted:

 

Bogey, Duran, Vaz, Groome + $8M

for

Montas, Soderstrom (C prospect), Piscotty & Andrus (as salary balance)

(We could even add Renfroe.)

[moonslav59]

Duran/Mata

for

Mountcastle

 

Duran/Jimenez

for

Manea/Bassitt

 

Maneae & Bassit only have 1 year left. I'd prefer the 2 years of Mointas.

[moonslav59]

Duran/Mata

for

Mountcastle

 

Duran/Jimenez

for

Manea/Bassitt

 

I'd give Duran and Dalbec for Mountcastle, even though BTV does not accept due to it being a major overpay by the Sox.

 

BTV accepted this unrealistic trade:

 

Duran, Dalbec, Downs, Mata, Groome

for

Means and Mountcastle

 

The 3-D for 2-M deal.

[mvp 78]

I'd give Duran and Dalbec for Mountcastle, even though BTV does not accept due to it being a major overpay by the Sox.

 

BTV accepted this unrealistic trade:

 

Duran, Dalbec, Downs, Mata, Groome

for

Means and Mountcastle

 

The 3-D for 2-M deal.

 

Really trying to start a dynasty down in B-more, huh?

[notin]

If he is outwardly saying that he's looking to move on, I guess you can move him to 2b if you find a better SS this offseason.

 

If the Sox are not going to spend on Schwarber, are they willing to spend on Correa/Seager/Story?

[notin]

Really trying to start a dynasty down in B-more, huh?

 

Well somebody needs to do it. Mike Elias is clearly not up to the task...

[mvp 78]

If the Sox are not going to spend on Schwarber, are they willing to spend on Correa/Seager/Story?

 

Does Schwarber play SS?

[moonslav59]

Really trying to start a dynasty down in B-more, huh?

 

4 words...

 

Five years of Mountcastle.

[mvp 78]

4 words...

 

Five years of Mountcastle.

 

25+ years of Duran et al.

[moonslav59]

25+ years of Duran et al.

 

That trade was for 5 years of Mountcastle and 3 years of Means.

 

You would not do that trade?

[mvp 78]

That trade was for 5 years of Mountcastle and 3 years of Means.

 

You would not do that trade?

 

I would do that trade. It was a joke, just not obvious enough, Mr Sutcliffe.

[moonslav59]

I would do that trade. It was a joke, just not obvious enough, Mr Sutcliffe.

 

Your sarcasm is not detectable, Mr. ARod.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is zero chance you send Dalbec plus for Mountcastle. Dalbec's second half was pretty awesome and Mountcastle's full year was really similar to Dalbec's. I think you need to ride the train one more time with Bobby D and see if he can put a full season together. If his first half was even replacement level, then his final line would have been awesome

[jacksonianmarch]

FYI, this is going to be the absolute most boring off season. With a lockout all but guaranteed, I expect it to dampen the FA market until labor disputes are resolved. I don't see a resolution passed until right before pitchers and catchers report. My bet is the "hot stove" will be pushed into high gear around super bowl time

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

FYI, this is going to be the absolute most boring off season. With a lockout all but guaranteed, I expect it to dampen the FA market until labor disputes are resolved. I don't see a resolution passed until right before pitchers and catchers report. My bet is the "hot stove" will be pushed into high gear around super bowl time

 

People in the industry are already saying there will be no hot stove season. There may be some innovative GMs or CBOs that still want to wheel and deal in the meantime, but owners may freeze rosters, along with everything else, until billionaires settle with multi-millionaires (and half-a-millionaires).

[notin]

People in the industry are already saying there will be no hot stove season. There may be some innovative GMs or CBOs that still want to wheel and deal in the meantime, but owners may freeze rosters, along with everything else, until billionaires settle with multi-millionaires (and half-a-millionaires).

 

 

Some say there will be Robot GMs who will find the phrase “hot stove” to be offensive (as they do all machine and appliance-based imagery) and instead will call the same period of the off season “human asset redistribution.”

 

And it all started with robot umps…

[mvp 78]

There is zero chance you send Dalbec plus for Mountcastle. Dalbec's second half was pretty awesome and Mountcastle's full year was really similar to Dalbec's. I think you need to ride the train one more time with Bobby D and see if he can put a full season together. If his first half was even replacement level, then his final line would have been awesome

 

If Sox thought there was validity to his 2nd half stats, he would have gotten more run in the playoffs.

[mvp 78]

Some say there will be Robot GMs who will find the phrase “hot stove” to be offensive (as they do all machine and appliance-based imagery) and instead will call the same period of the off season “human asset redistribution.”

 

And it all started with robot umps…

 

Stoves aren't robots.

[Dojji]

Not actually interested at all in Mountcastle. Feels like a Chris Davis clone. Undisciplined. Swing happy, strikeout happy. The K rate tells me the kid has some big holes in his swing, and with kids like this it can go from Ryan Howard to Willy Mo Pena in a heartbeat if pitchers figure out how to get them out.

 

Fenway Park is a doubles park, a line drive park. We need to favor contact hitters with the ability to drive the ball, over raw power. That's when we were at our best. Papi and Manny were power hitters who had great contact skills and they were the guys who owned Fenway. When we tried to use pure power hitters they tend to struggle in Boston. I'm much more interested in high contact and OBP hitters, guys like Pedroia or youk back in the day, and leave the raw power to teams that need it more.

 

Also this team needs speed. Again, this is a contact hitter's park. We need guys who can run, we need to be able to play smartball and take advantage of that high contact style, and we need guys who can play that style. A few thumpers is alright, but we should be all about putting wood on leather and that means speed really compliments what we're here to do. We've always been at our best when we have speed at the top of the lineup. And right now our 2021 stolen bases leader is the freaking catcher.

 

If I'm looking to bring this team forward next year, I'm bringing in a speed guy, maybe a speedy shortstop if Bogaerts is ready to Ernie Banks himself. Also maybe look to pick up a 4th OF with some wheels, to come in off the bench to run a bit and play good OF defense.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

Not actually interested at all in Mountcastle. Feels like a Chris Davis clone. Undisciplined. Swing happy, strikeout happy. The K rate tells me the kid has some big holes in his swing, and with kids like this it can go from Ryan Howard to Willy Mo Pena in a heartbeat if pitchers figure out how to get them out.

 

Fenway Park is a doubles park, a line drive park. We need to favor contact hitters with the ability to drive the ball, over raw power. That's when we were at our best. Papi and Manny were power hitters who had great contact skills and they were the guys who owned Fenway. When we tried to use pure power hitters they tend to struggle in Boston. I'm much more interested in high contact and OBP hitters, guys like Pedroia or youk back in the day, and leave the raw power to teams that need it more..

 

27.5% isn't great, but it's better than Dalbec. Which one is more likely to become Chris Davis?

 

Yes, when we collect some of the greatest hitters of the modern era (Manny, Papi), the team is more likely to be better. Agree 100%.

[moonslav59]

I'm glad we kept the undisciplined hitter, Devers.

[notin]

Stoves aren't robots.

 

They automate the cooking process. Many robots view them as ancestors.

 

If you disagree, take it up with HAL...