Alex Cora MOY 2021

[moonslav59]

It's probably the most meaningless award of them all.

 

They generally give it to the guy whose team seemed to 'exceed expectations' the most.

 

Yes, so they should just have a team award called "Most Exceeded Expectations."

[dgalehouse]

The Sox finished eight games behind the Rays , with a payroll four times the size. There is no way that Cora wins manager of the year over Cash. Nor should he.

[mvp 78]

It's probably the most meaningless award of them all.

 

They generally give it to the guy whose team seemed to 'exceed expectations' the most.

 

Jimy was the last Sox manager to win it.

 

Since then:

 

ChiSox 2 (WS season)

Rays 3 (both WS seasons)

Twins 3

A's 2

Guardians 3 (WS season)

Rangers 2 (not WS season)

Angels 2 (WS season)

Tigers 1 (not WS season)

Mariners 1

Royals 1 (not in WS season)

Orioles 1

[moonslav59]

The Sox finished eight games behind the Rays , with a payroll four times the size. There is no way that Cora wins manager of the year over Cash. Nor should he.

 

The budget is for GM of the year.

 

The Rays had a better roster than ours, and everybody knew it.

 

I'm not saying Cash does not deserve the award or some votes, but he had a damn good roster, despite the injuries to Glasnow and others.

 

BTW, it's not just as simple as adding up the dollars. Some of our dollars are going to players not even on our roster, so what good is that salary to Cora?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

Some of our dollars are going to players not even on our roster

 

... a point I always raise -- and got hammered for by more than one poster -- when they defend the current budget to prove the Red Sox are big market spenders this year...

[Bellhorn04]

The Rays had a better roster than ours, and everybody knew it.

 

I'm not saying Cash does not deserve the award or some votes, but he had a damn good roster, despite the injuries to Glasnow and others.

 

Cash is a good example of why it's so hard to evaluate the impact of the manager.

 

Is he getting great performance out of players who aren't as talented, or is it the GM who's finding talented players who are undervalued?

[moonslav59]

... a point I always raise -- and got hammered for by more than one poster -- when they defend the current budget to prove the Red Sox are big market spenders this year...

 

I totally get your point and agree, but the counterpoint is valid, too.

 

How many teams spent as much as us, last winter?

 

It does not seem like much, because we had to spread it out to fill the massive holes deep into our 40 man roster, but we spent about $40M. That is big market spending- just spread out.

 

$8.9M for Ottavino via trade (not a FA)

 

$10M Richards (counting the 2022 buyout of $1.5M)

$7M x 2 Kike

$5M Perez (counting the $500K buyout)

$3.1M Renfroe

$3.0M Marwin

$1.5M Sawamura

$1.0M Santana

 

[Bellhorn04]

I totally get your point and agree, but the counterpoint is valid, too.

 

How many teams spent as much as us, last winter?

 

It does not seem like much, because we had to spread it out to fill the massive holes deep into our 40 man roster, but we spent about $40M. That is big market spending- just spread out.

 

$8.9M for Ottavino via trade (not a FA)

 

$10M Richards (counting the 2022 buyout of $1.5M)

$7M x 2 Kike

$5M Perez (counting the $500K buyout)

$3.1M Renfroe

$3.0M Marwin

$1.5M Sawamura

$1.0M Santana

 

 

But we also cut payroll by letting JBJ go, trading Beni etc. - doesn't that have to be factored in too?

[moonslav59]

Cash is a good example of why it's so hard to evaluate the impact of the manager.

 

Is he getting great performance out of players who aren't as talented, or is it the GM who's finding talented players who are undervalued?

 

Excellent point, and when you watch guys like Archer and Snell go to other teams and basically suck, it indicates, he is doing something other managers are not.

 

I'd be fine with him winning or the guy from Seattle, but to me Cora is a genius and deserves the award.

 

We were God awful, last year, and not the great in 2019.

 

On paper, we did not look all that good, this year. Many felt we'd have a losing record- even several Sox posters.

 

[moonslav59]

But we also cut payroll by letting JBJ go, trading Beni etc. - doesn't that have to be factored in too?

 

Other teams lose payroll, too and don't spend $40M.

 

I'd be curious to see what teams spent what after subtracting what came off the books.

 

My guess is, we'd still be one of the biggest net plus spenders, last winter.

 

Some teams blew us away, but many more teams went very cheap, this year.

 

We lost JBJ's $11M and some of Beni's contract, but not all. We cut some salary at last year's trade deadline, but I think JBJ and Beni were the only significant subtractions- maybe totally about $15M. If you count Kike's second year and Sawamura's 2nd and third year cost, we are still near $35M in total net spending.

Edited October 4, 2021 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Cash is a good example of why it's so hard to evaluate the impact of the manager.

 

Is he getting great performance out of players who aren't as talented, or is it the GM who's finding talented players who are undervalued?

 

It's always both.

[Bellhorn04]

It's always both.

 

Yes, and I think it's getting more that way all the time.

 

It's impossible to choose a MOY by any meaningful criteria.

[iortiz]

While Cora made a terrific job, I think Cash has more merit considering the payroll of both teams.

[moonslav59]

While Cora made a terrific job, I think Cash has more merit considering the payroll of both teams.

 

If one team has a better roster at a lower budget, they should get the GM of the Year Award.

 

IMO, the manager of the year should go to the manager who got the most out of the players he was given- not their salaries.

[notin]

Cash is a good example of why it's so hard to evaluate the impact of the manager.

 

Is he getting great performance out of players who aren't as talented, or is it the GM who's finding talented players who are undervalued?

 

It's one thing to have a great roster. But only the manager has to juggle the day-to-day impact of various injuries...

[Kimmi]

There’s no other candidate even close.

 

I am a huge Cora fan, and I believed going in that he would be a difference maker in our season this year. Also, I owe him an apology for my criticism towards batting Kike in the leadoff spot.

 

That said, my vote would probably go to Kevin Cash.

[Kimmi]

Former Red Sox players as managers this year:

 

Kapler 107 wins

Roberts 106

Cash 100

Cora 92

 

Not bad.

 

The common thread with all those guys is Francona. He doesn't get enough credit.

[notin]

... a point I always raise -- and got hammered for by more than one poster -- when they defend the current budget to prove the Red Sox are big market spenders this year...

 

They’re still big spenders. Just because you spend money in multiple stores doesn’t mean you don’t spend it…

[moonslav59]

They’re still big spenders. Just because you spend money in multiple stores doesn’t mean you don’t spend it…

 

We are still big spenders, but we are way lower than we were a few years back, and a chunk of our current payroll was going towards Price & Pedey.

 

No excuses. We are stills pending more than most team, even taking out the sunken money, and way more than many teams.

[cp176]

When Cora told Rodriguez last night that we don't do that, I was sold. I've always liked him but not as much as I do now. He makes a difference. He is a real coach. He loves these guys but isn't afraid to lead. He cares about them and about the franchise in general and our guys know it.

[sk7326]

When Cora told Rodriguez last night that we don't do that, I was sold. I've always liked him but not as much as I do now. He makes a difference. He is a real coach. He loves these guys but isn't afraid to lead. He cares about them and about the franchise in general and our guys know it.

 

When Carlos Correa said "you know what? That was pretty cool, and baseball should support that more." I liked HIM.

[moonslav59]

When Cora told Rodriguez last night that we don't do that, I was sold. I've always liked him but not as much as I do now. He makes a difference. He is a real coach. He loves these guys but isn't afraid to lead. He cares about them and about the franchise in general and our guys know it.

 

That moment really struck me hard.

 

You could just tell what was being said, and the connection being so strong.

[cp176]

When Carlos Correa said "you know what? That was pretty cool, and baseball should support that more." I liked HIM.

 

I realize that I am now from a little different era. To each his own I guess. Maybe Cora is older than he says he is. lol

[cp176]

That moment really struck me hard.

 

You could just tell what was being said, and the connection being so strong.

 

 

it is a connection that good coaches are able to achieve. Anything is possible when it is achieved.

[moonslav59]

it is a connection that good coaches are able to achieve. Anything is possible when it is achieved.

 

Well said.

[jad]

it is a connection that good coaches are able to achieve. Anything is possible when it is achieved.

 

No it's not. You still need players who are equal to or better than those of your opponents. That said, I of course agree w/ the views on Cora here, listen to his pre-game ramblings whenever I can, just as I did all those goofy pre-game interviews with Francona.

Edited October 22, 2021 by jad

[Deja Doh]

I'd give MOY to Gabe Kapler and the Giants: 107 wins. Other than Posey, Longoria, Crawford, Bryant and Yaz, I can't think of another player. They didn't even have 1 player with 500 AB's (the Sox had 6).

Cora did fine, but Kevin Cash and Dusty Baker did better. As for coronavirus, everyone was dealing with it. The managers of teams with the lowest case numbers should be applauded as they and their players took it more seriously than others.

[jacksonianmarch]

MOY is by League, if I’m not mistaken. Kapler is clear for NL. Cora is clear, IMO, for AL

[Deja Doh]

When Cora told Rodriguez last night that we don't do that, I was sold. I've always liked him but not as much as I do now. He makes a difference. He is a real coach. He loves these guys but isn't afraid to lead. He cares about them and about the franchise in general and our guys know it.

 

After Rodriguez's taunting incident, the Red Sox scored just 3 runs in 3 games (okay, we scored 2 runs in the bottom of the 6th and another run in the 8th inning of the game after Rodriguez completed the Top of the 6th). After that game all the momentum shifted. We went cold and Houston heated up. Rodriguez is supposed to be a professional (that's on the manager to counsel his players appropriately). Correa didn't make the gesture towards Robles (who gave up the homer) or towards the Red Sox dugout, but to his own dugout. Is that any different than the head tapping and waving Red Sox players do toward their own dugout when they get a hit? Nope.

[mvp 78]

I'd give MOY to Gabe Kapler and the Giants: 107 wins. Other than Posey, Longoria, Crawford, Bryant and Yaz, I can't think of another player. They didn't even have 1 player with 500 AB's (the Sox had 6).

Cora did fine, but Kevin Cash and Dusty Baker did better. As for coronavirus, everyone was dealing with it. The managers of teams with the lowest case numbers should be applauded as they and their players took it more seriously than others.

Baker and Cash’s teams had higher hopes going into the year. The Sox surprised nearly everyone.