A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[notin]

Sox should start drawing up plays where Renfroe takes a cutoff throw from Duran.

 

Maybe Duran should just run the ball back to the infield. His running speed and throwing speed are probably closer together than any other player in the majors...

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe Duran should just run the ball back to the infield. His running speed and throwing speed are probably closer together than any other player in the majors...

 

Now that is cold.

[moonslav59]

Yes, Verdugo is better in LF. However, if we are comparing Duran vs Verdugo in CF, Verdugo can hit and Duran cannot. Verdugo came up as a CFer in the Dodgers organization. He doesn't look lost out there. He just doesn't have Duran's athleticism. However, Duran just looks very uncomfortable in CF. He gets poor reads and speed can only make up a small part of a missed first step. Verdugo has the instincts to play CF, it'll just be underwhelming. Duran has no instincts and is worse than Verdugo. If the Opening Day lineup next year had Verdugo AND Duran in it, I'd have Verdugo in CF and Duran in LF.

 

True.

 

Ideally, Kike plays CF.

 

I'm thinking maybe this is best for 2022:

 

JD Opts out

Trade Bogey for a pitcher- sign Simmons

Move Devers to 1B

Dalbec moves to DH

Sign Kris Bryant to play 3B

Sign Scherzer

Sign R Iglesias

 

1. Kike CF

2. Bryant 3B

3. Devers 1B

4. Renfroe RF

5. Dalbec DH

6. Verdugo LF

7. Simmons SS

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vaz C

 

Scherzer, Sale, ___(Trade from Bogey)___, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Seabold

Iglesias, Houck, Whitlock, Barnes, Richards, Taylor, DHern, Sawamura

[moonslav59]

Sox should start drawing up plays where Renfroe takes a cutoff throw from Duran.

 

Like Manny did for Damon in the playoffs!

[Bellhorn04]

True.

 

Ideally, Kike plays CF.

 

I'm thinking maybe this is best for 2022:

 

JD Opts out

Trade Bogey for a pitcher- sign Simmons

Move Devers to 1B

Dalbec moves to DH

Sign Kris Bryant to play 3B

Sign Scherzer

Sign R Iglesias

 

1. Kike CF

2. Bryant 3B

3. Devers 1B

4. Renfroe RF

5. Dalbec DH

6. Verdugo LF

7. Simmons SS

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vaz C

 

Scherzer, Sale, ___(Trade from Bogey)___, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Seabold

Iglesias, Houck, Whitlock, Barnes, Richards, Taylor, DHern, Sawamura

 

It's going to be tough to outbid the Dodgers for Scherzer.

[moonslav59]

It's going to be tough to outbid the Dodgers for Scherzer.

 

Especially, if we sign Simmons and Bryant, although losing JD and Bogey's salaries add some to the pool.

[notin]

Now that is cold.

 

It might actually be true.

 

There aren’t many in MLB faster than Duran. The one guy who leaps to mind is Jorge Mateo, but he has a cannon for an arm…

[mvp 78]

Maybe Duran should just run the ball back to the infield. His running speed and throwing speed are probably closer together than any other player in the majors...

 

I went over to statcast and Nick Senzel has a very similar sprint speed with a much worse ARM score.

 

I had a much larger post with charts, graphs and inbedded video, but got the dreaded TalkSox database error. That beautiful post is lost to history.

[notin]

I went over to statcast and Nick Senzel has a very similar sprint speed with a much worse ARM score.

 

I actually didn’t think Senzel was that fast or threw similar to Duran. But then he rarely gets into games because he can get injured by the mere act of being added to a lineup…

[oldtimer]

Maybe Duran should just run the ball back to the infield. His running speed and throwing speed are probably closer together than any other player in the majors...

 

You certainly go out of your way to make disparaging remarks about Duran.

[notin]

You certainly go out of your way to make disparaging remarks about Duran.

 

Someone is a bit overprotective about Duran. I don’t recall being called out the other day for saying Verdugo was safe from COVID because even if he was exposed, he’d just misplay it…

[Elktonnick]

You certainly go out of your way to make disparaging remarks about Duran.

Duran's inability to consistently hit major league pitching is his weak spot. Sadly it does not look like he will have an opportunity to prove that he can this year. I think it is at best a fifty fifty chance he will be a Red Sox come next April. There are too many variables to predict what will happen with this kid.

 

Let's face it with Bloom few players on this club are going to be off limits for any potential trade deals.

 

Besides Duran's hitting woes he really isn't a slam dunk at any position. Right now he may be able to play centerfield. But no one is calling him a can't miss outstanding centerfielder. 25 may seem young but in big league terms it does not give him much time to nail.his spot.

 

To me Duran is looking more and more like a Blake Swisher or Will Middlebrooks, namely a kid who everyone was rooting for to find his spot but just never does.

[notin]

Your auto correct was apparently no fan of Blake Swihart…

[Elktonnick]

Your auto correct was apparently no fan of Blake Swihart…

 

I hate auto correct

[Hugh2]

I was really surprised to see Duran as a top 25 prospect. Unfortunately that makes the expectations for a kid almost impossible to attain. He’s maybe an average starter at best, a good 4th outfielder if not.

[Elktonnick]

I was really surprised to see Duran as a top 25 prospect. Unfortunately that makes the expectations for a kid almost impossible to attain. He’s maybe an average starter at best, a good 4th outfielder if not.

I think Duran is another example of group think. My first experience with this phenomenon in red Sox baseball was that great can't miss Red Sox prospect superstar Billy Consolo. I think they signed him out of high school in the early fifties He was their first bonus baby

[Hugh2]

I think Duran is another example of group think. My first experience with this phenomenon in red Sox baseball was that great can't miss Red Sox prospect superstar Billy Consolo. I think they signed him out of high school in the early fifties He was their first bonus baby

 

Maybe, but I don’t think Duran was a consensus can’t miss prospect. Even those who inflated him bought into his power. While he may have received too much helium in my opinion the book is far from closing for him.

[Elktonnick]

Maybe, but I don’t think Duran was a consensus can’t miss prospect. Even those who inflated him bought into his power. While he may have received too much helium in my opinion the book is far from closing for him.

Like I said it is fifty fifty that he stays with the club. If he does stay I see him. as a role player.

[oldtimer]

Like I said it is fifty fifty that he stays with the club. If he does stay I see him. as a role player.

 

Maybe it will be a big role.

[moonslav59]

Duran could end up being anywhere between a dud, a decent role player to a very good player.

 

With an OF of Verdugo, Kike and Renfroe, and the drum beat banging for Schwatber to return, he may not get a long look in 2022.

 

He deserves one, so surely talk of trading him is not far-fetched or really a slight against him. It may be the best thing that happens to his career.

 

Of course, trading someone else, or playing Kike at 2B could open up a slot for Duran, but I don't see that being a winter plan.

 

A similar choice may be needed with Casas, if Dalbec keeps hitting like this. The good thing for him is that JD's deal ends after 2022, and Dalbec's defense screams out, "DH ME!"

[Elktonnick]

Maybe it will be a big role.

Doubt it!

[oldtimer]

True.

 

Ideally, Kike plays CF.

 

I'm thinking maybe this is best for 2022:

 

JD Opts out

Trade Bogey for a pitcher- sign Simmons

Move Devers to 1B

Dalbec moves to DH

Sign Kris Bryant to play 3B

Sign Scherzer

Sign R Iglesias

 

1. Kike CF

2. Bryant 3B

3. Devers 1B

4. Renfroe RF

5. Dalbec DH

6. Verdugo LF

7. Simmons SS

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vaz C

 

Scherzer, Sale, ___(Trade from Bogey)___, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Seabold

Iglesias, Houck, Whitlock, Barnes, Richards, Taylor, DHern, Sawamura

 

I presume you are having a go at solving the poor defensive quality of the 2021 team by changing the roles of or trading away three of the weak defensive players. In addition you are looking for the resources to add pitching quality and star field players to fill some of the holes. It's great to throw around novel ideas, but I believe it will be very difficult to make the moves you suggest without creating future problems. Bloom will be aware of the issues and will likely go in a different direction.

 

Some of the issues are listed below:

 

1. In trading Bogey, presumably you are trying to improve the defense at SS while saving money to be applied to some other areas of need. You identified Simmons who will be 32 and turn 33 during the season. He is a good defensive SS but is starting to get past his prime and you sacrifice quite a bit in hitting ability. I know Mayer is coming, probably by 2024, so Simmons is a short term fix and currently has a $6 salary. I believe Bogey and Devers are close friends and I wonder if a move of Bogey will hurt our chances of resigning Devers in future. You also suggest trading Bogey for a mid level starter. I wonder who we could get with his FA year coming up after 2022?

 

2. Moving Devers to first base may solve a problem at third, provided we sign a top notch replacement. You identify Chris Bryant if we can get him he won't come cheaply. I suppose thinking big is being creative. Meanwhile, we have no knowledge that Devers would be an effective defensive first baseman. Would he consider that to be his future or would it be another reason to look elsewhere. Then there is the real issue of blocking Casas with that move. Since he is our current top prospect, it seems the wrong thing to do.

 

3. Moving Dalbec to DH does remove him from the defensive issues at first and third when he has played there. That means no Schwaber, who may be the best hitter on the team, in hopes that Dalbec can hit front line pitching. It does reduce the cost of our DH. I too believe that JDM should be moved. He still is a viable DH but may be getting past his peak.

 

4. Iglesias would be a good get but expensive. Lots of competition for his services.

 

5.Scherzer is a short term fix. A great pitcher would might last another year. How does he fit with making the team competitive on a continuing basis?

 

I see that Bloom and the front office will struggle to deal with the issues I mention while trying to integrate our best prospect (Casas, Mayer and Yorke) into the team going forward.

[Larry Cook]

EROD is getting a QO.

 

I agree entirely! I can not imagine hang’em Chaim letting him walk.

[moonslav59]

I presume you are having a go at solving the poor defensive quality of the 2021 team by changing the roles of or trading away three of the weak defensive players. In addition you are looking for the resources to add pitching quality and star field players to fill some of the holes. It's great to throw around novel ideas, but I believe it will be very difficult to make the moves you suggest without creating future problems. Bloom will be aware of the issues and will likely go in a different direction.

 

Some of the issues are listed below:

 

1. In trading Bogey, presumably you are trying to improve the defense at SS while saving money to be applied to some other areas of need. You identified Simmons who will be 32 and turn 33 during the season. He is a good defensive SS but is starting to get past his prime and you sacrifice quite a bit in hitting ability. I know Mayer is coming, probably by 2024, so Simmons is a short term fix and currently has a $6 salary. I believe Bogey and Devers are close friends and I wonder if a move of Bogey will hurt our chances of resigning Devers in future. You also suggest trading Bogey for a mid level starter. I wonder who we could get with his FA year coming up after 2022?

 

2. Moving Devers to first base may solve a problem at third, provided we sign a top notch replacement. You identify Chris Bryant if we can get him he won't come cheaply. I suppose thinking big is being creative. Meanwhile, we have no knowledge that Devers would be an effective defensive first baseman. Would he consider that to be his future or would it be another reason to look elsewhere. Then there is the real issue of blocking Casas with that move. Since he is our current top prospect, it seems the wrong thing to do.

 

3. Moving Dalbec to DH does remove him from the defensive issues at first and third when he has played there. That means no Schwaber, who may be the best hitter on the team, in hopes that Dalbec can hit front line pitching. It does reduce the cost of our DH. I too believe that JDM should be moved. He still is a viable DH but may be getting past his peak.

 

4. Iglesias would be a good get but expensive. Lots of competition for his services.

 

5.Scherzer is a short term fix. A great pitcher would might last another year. How does he fit with making the team competitive on a continuing basis?

 

I see that Bloom and the front office will struggle to deal with the issues I mention while trying to integrate our best prospect (Casas, Mayer and Yorke) into the team going forward.

 

I would not trade Bogey, unless we got a quality pitcher (I never said "mid level"), so the loss of offense at SS would be evened up or outweighed by improved pitching and defense at the most important defensive position outside of catcher.

 

Scherzer would be a short term signing, so we'd basically be putting off for a few years another big choice while giving our kids time to find a role.

 

Yes, Iglesias would be expensive but not close to Syndergaard or Gausman.

 

What's your plan for Dalbec?

 

You want Schwarber at DH after JD. You want Casas at 1B. You want Devers at 3B.

 

You seem to go out of your way to squeeze our fine young player out of a role on our team, going forward.

 

What's your plan to improve our D?

 

Sign Schwarber and keep all our clown defenders where they are?

 

What happens, if Bogey bolts for nothing?

 

What happens when Bloom (rightly) refuses to outbid everyone for Syndergaard or Gausman- neither are the type you wait years for and pounce with large and long deals.

 

It's easy to just think Duran, Casas, Houck, Whitlock and the rest of our youth is going to pull a Betts-Bogey-JBJ trifecta, but it may not happen.

 

We do have 4 big guys coming off the books after '22: Bogey, JD, Eovaldi and Kike. There's room for them and some FA's, too.

 

BTW, I know Bloom won't do this, but I'd like to see some of these type moves being made, and yes, we may need to get "creative."

Edited September 11, 2021 by moonslav59

[Hugh2]

I’d take Carlos Correa over Bryant. He can slide over to SS in a year or two. Bogey to 2B/3B. Devers to 1B/DH

[moonslav59]

I’d take Carlos Correa over Bryant. He can slide over to SS in a year or two. Bogey to 2B/3B. Devers to 1B/DH

 

I'm not locked in on any of the names I listed, especially Simmons.

 

Correa would be a great plus, but I doubt we'd move Bogey to a new position- we'd trade him.

 

His value is at SS, despite my beliefs about his defense.

[oldtimer]

I’d take Carlos Correa over Bryant. He can slide over to SS in a year or two. Bogey to 2B/3B. Devers to 1B/DH

 

What about Trevor Story to throw another name out there. He is kind of another Bogey and nearly at the same price. Is he a possible 3rd base candidate?

[oldtimer]

I would not trade Bogey, unless we got a quality pitcher (I never said "mid level"), so the loss of offense at SS would be evened up or outweighed by improved pitching and defense at the most important defensive position outside of catcher.

 

Scherzer would be a short term signing, so we'd basically be putting off for a few years another big choice while giving our kids time to find a role.

 

Yes, Iglesias would be expensive but not close to Syndergaard or Gausman.

 

What's your plan for Dalbec?

 

You want Schwarber at DH after JD. You want Casas at 1B. You want Devers at 3B.

 

You seem to go out of your way to squeeze our fine young player out of a role on our team, going forward.

 

What's your plan to improve our D?

 

Sign Schwarber and keep all our clown defenders where they are?

 

What happens, if Bogey bolts for nothing?

 

What happens when Bloom (rightly) refuses to outbid everyone for Syndergaard or Gausman- neither are the type you wait years for and pounce with large and long deals.

 

It's easy to just think Duran, Casas, Houck, Whitlock and the rest of our youth is going to pull a Betts-Bogey-JBJ trifecta, but it may not happen.

 

We do have 4 big guys coming off the books after '22: Bogey, JD, Eovaldi and Kike. There's room for them and some FA's, too.

 

BTW, I know Bloom won't do this, but I'd like to see some of these type moves being made, and yes, we may need to get "creative."

The way you listed the pitchers in your list as Scherzer, Sale, __Trade for Bogey__, Eovaldi, and on implies the addition would be a third starter type. That's how I read it. Bogey has 8 recorded errors this year to date, so I presume you are looking for a replacement with additional range. I do recognize shortstop to be a very important defensive position as do perhaps 100 % of those who post on this site. I also mentioned that Bogey will become a FA in 2022, so that has to factor into whatever Bloom decides to do.

 

Scherzer would be a costly signing. Would you sign him for more than one year?

 

I pointed out that there will be a lot of competition to sign Iglesias. That will make him expensive, but worthwhile if we can get him.

 

To the question of Dalbec, Bogey and Devers, I pointed out the many questions and difficulties that Bloom faces in trying to retain player prospects while improving the defense. Those problems will not go away because we or Bloom wish them to. Your suggestions I took as creative but instead of responding to the issues I mentioned you went on the attack mode asking me for a solution to the very knotty problems facing Bloom.

 

Yes, I would prefer Schwaber in his prime years over JDM in his post prime years for the DH role. I have no idea if Devers would be better at 1st base than Dalbec. I do believe Casas will make an appearance on the Sox roster later in 2022. He is a natural first baseman with soft hands and is our #1 prospect. If he continues to progress he should make the team and should not be traded.

 

I have no desire for the Sox to get rid of Dalbec as he has blossomed as a power hitter. He credits Schwaber, by the way, as helping him to improve. I don't want to get rid of Devers either, and that is where Bloom must make some tough choices. Do we trade Bogey, move Devers to first and Dalbec to DH as you suggest and then trade Casas since he would be blocked. Not sign Schwaber as you also suggest. Then pick up an aging SS and an all star 3rd baseman?

 

I don't have an equivalent set of suggestions for Bloom, but trust him to evaluate the pros and cons and take action accordingly. I take him at his word that he is trying to develop our prospect list such that we can bolster the team with a few low cost players a year to keep us competitive year to year..

[jad]

Yeah, now that the slick-fielding, hard-hitting Iglesias is available (as shown by his performance last night), time to DFA Bogey.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, now that the slick-fielding, hard-hitting Iglesias is available (as shown by his performance last night), time to DFA Bogey.

 

Holy Dripping Sarcasm, Batman.