A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[Nick]

I would be very surprised if Bloom dismantles the ballclub that's been in the playoff hunt without the services of Sale for most of the year.

 

I find it very difficult to swallow the idea of extending a $18M deal to a pitcher that performed at best 'average' making $8.3M.

 

Bloom added two 'keeper regulars' in Kike and Renfroe. Cost effective acquisitions.

 

Bloom added a 'regular starting pitcher' in Pivetta. He came very cheap. 3 more years of team control.

 

Bloom found another 'keeper' in Whitlock. Maybe we paid $175K for him. 5 more years of team control.

 

Bloom stayed the course with Dalbec. I believe the Sox paid $30M for the 'rights' to Moncada. His OPS is .778. Dalbec now has 21 HR, 70 RBI and .793 OPS. (I know they play different positions). With 3 weeks to go, Dalbec MAY garner couple of Rookie of the Year votes. He stays. 5 more years of team control.

 

Verdugo now has gone from #1 outfielder to #3, behind Kike and Renfroe. And that's a good thing. Tells you that team is better.

 

I think Bloom extends Eovaldi this winter or in April.

 

All of sudden we are talking about defense but with Xander and Devers, at best we're average on the left side.

 

I just want another 'impact' starter and Schwarber. Everything else can be pieced together. Houck becomes either set up or closer if we acquire another starter.

[notin]

What about Trevor Story to throw another name out there. He is kind of another Bogey and nearly at the same price. Is he a possible 3rd base candidate?

 

Story does post stellar defensive metrics at SS and is probably worth keeping there.

 

There have been some longstanding rumors that the Rangers will go heavily after Irving, Texas native Trevor Story…

[notin]

I would be very surprised if Bloom dismantles the ballclub that's been in the playoff hunt without the services of Sale for most of the year.

 

I find it very difficult to swallow the idea of extending a $18M deal to a pitcher that performed at best 'average' making $8.3M.

 

Bloom added two 'keeper regulars' in Kike and Renfroe. Cost effective acquisitions.

 

Bloom added a 'regular starting pitcher' in Pivetta. He came very cheap. 3 more years of team control.

 

Bloom found another 'keeper' in Whitlock. Maybe we paid $175K for him. 5 more years of team control.

 

Bloom stayed the course with Dalbec. I believe the Sox paid $30M for the 'rights' to Moncada. His OPS is .778. Dalbec now has 21 HR, 70 RBI and .793 OPS. (I know they play different positions). With 3 weeks to go, Dalbec MAY garner couple of Rookie of the Year votes. He stays. 5 more years of team control.

 

Verdugo now has gone from #1 outfielder to #3, behind Kike and Renfroe. And that's a good thing. Tells you that team is better.

 

I think Bloom extends Eovaldi this winter or in April.

 

All of sudden we are talking about defense but with Xander and Devers, at best we're average on the left side.

 

I just want another 'impact' starter and Schwarber. Everything else can be pieced together. Houck becomes either set up or closer if we acquire another starter.

 

I think those are very reasonable expectations.

 

Acquiring said impact starter is naturally very difficult, but not impossible.

 

Thoughts on Richards?

[Bellhorn04]

I think those are very reasonable expectations.

 

Acquiring said impact starter is naturally very difficult, but not impossible.

 

Thoughts on Richards?

 

Richards - Bloom might decline the team option and then try to sign him for less, like he did with Perez?

[Swiharts Ghost]

I’m not sure who’s going to be on the trade market as in starters but I do think it’s very possible we trade for a front end Starter .I see Bobby as a piece to trade along with Verdugo .I know I’ll get tons of Flak over adding Verdugo but I’m extending Renfroe and looking to upgrade outfield Defense and find Verdugo to be an average hitting poor Defensive Outfielder.Could Duran be better than Verdugo next year ? I dont see it .Plan should be for Duran to go to Woo to start next year and build his value back up .For me I trade for the starter then. Sign a FA starter I would either stretch Houck out again or Make him a high leverage BP arm thus moving Barnes into more a setup roll and Whit into multi inning BP arm .Richards is an option to extend as a closer but I don’t think Richards wants that roll yet and think he looks for starter job s elsewhere.My opinion is to sit JDM down at end of season and discuss his diminished roll going forward noting the team will look to sign Kyle for that position.JDM can sit or he can look for a longer deal elsewhere and I think he will.I think the season was exciting we gave it one hell of a run but Covid and lack of trades at the deadline really did the guys in .Bobby D is by a Mile our most impressive improved player ...I’m so freaking happy for him and his family he’s for real with that bat which begs the question also .....if Bobby leaves via trade could you see him as a 250 hitter with 35 Bombs ? I can but I’m sticking with Kyle .

[moonslav59]

My responses to Oldtimer...

 

The way you listed the pitchers in your list as Scherzer, Sale, __Trade for Bogey__, Eovaldi, and on implies the addition would be a third starter type. That's how I read it. Bogey has 8 recorded errors this year to date, so I presume you are looking for a replacement with additional range. I do recognize shortstop to be a very important defensive position as do perhaps 100 % of those who post on this site. I also mentioned that Bogey will become a FA in 2022, so that has to factor into whatever Bloom decides to do.

 

Being listed behind Scherzer and Sale does not mean you are a typical 3rd starter like maybe ERod. How good the pitcher we get depends on years of team control. I'm not handing Bogey away. He has enormous value. Maybe we trade him for someone Bloom views as a great closer plus a top prospect arm.

 

Scherzer would be a costly signing. Would you sign him for more than one year?

 

He won't take one year, but he won't get 5+ like Syndergaard and Gausman will likely get- warts and all.

 

I'd offer a 2 year deal with a team option for 3 and a hefty buyout to make those 2 years very enticing. I'd probably settle on 3 years $93M.

 

 

I pointed out that there will be a lot of competition to sign Iglesias. That will make him expensive, but worthwhile if we can get him.

 

I'm usually not one to think spending big on a closer is worth it, so I'm not sure about this one. Maybe a trade for a closer is best.

 

 

To the question of Dalbec, Bogey and Devers, I pointed out the many questions and difficulties that Bloom faces in trying to retain player prospects while improving the defense. Those problems will not go away because we or Bloom wish them to. Your suggestions I took as creative but instead of responding to the issues I mentioned you went on the attack mode asking me for a solution to the very knotty problems facing Bloom.

 

I'm sorry for the attitude I took. Your points were well thought out and logical. I do get a sense that you so love these guys offense, that you are willing to roll back a replay of 2021 just to keep watching our great offensive players booting balls allover the place on D.

 

 

Yes, I would prefer Schwaber in his prime years over JDM in his post prime years for the DH role.

 

No dispute on Schwarber over JD from me on 2022, but if JD comes back, we are basically packing our D in for 2022 by having both on the roster. I'd be fine with Schwarber and JD, but only if we made a radical improvement on defense at SS or 1B & 3B combined. (That's not easy to do.)

 

I have no idea if Devers would be better at 1st base than Dalbec. I do believe Casas will make an appearance on the Sox roster later in 2022. He is a natural first baseman with soft hands and is our #1 prospect. If he continues to progress he should make the team and should not be traded.

 

In all seriousness, nobody can be worse than Dalbec- the 2021 version. Devers is very quick-reflexed. I'm not sacrificing what's best for the team in hopes that Casas comes to the rescue as early as 2022. BTW, what do we do with Schwarber, JD, Dalbec, Devers and Casas squeezed into 4 slots, in which 3 will be sub par defense?

 

If you really want Casas in the 2022 plans, then either JD has to opt out ot be traded, Schwarber not signed or Dalbec traded. Devers isn't going anywhere.

 

 

I have no desire for the Sox to get rid of Dalbec as he has blossomed as a power hitter. He credits Schwaber, by the way, as helping him to improve. I don't want to get rid of Devers either, and that is where Bloom must make some tough choices. Do we trade Bogey, move Devers to first and Dalbec to DH as you suggest and then trade Casas since he would be blocked. Not sign Schwaber as you also suggest. Then pick up an aging SS and an all star 3rd baseman?

 

I'm fine with Schwarber in LF until he moves to DH in 2023, but I'm not weakening LF defense and keeping our IF D the same. I can't support that. If Casas wins the job, then we trade Dalbec. I would not trade him, until we see Casas succeed. How does he get playing time to prove it? It's like Duran 1A.

 

Look, I love Dalbec. I think I was the last guy saying he might need to be demoted during one of is long slumps. The guy can hit. I'm still hopeful he can bring his OBP up to respectability, so it outweighs his poor D. I also expected to see his defense improve, and I think he is better now than earlier, and he makes some nice plays. He has just made so many brutal errors and countless non plays not listed as errors. Luckily, I'm not huge on feeling great D is needed at 1B (or LF). I want to keep Dalbec and his low cost contract in the fold and slotted for 1B/3B/DH, next year- maybe sitting a few more games vs RHPs than a FT player usually sees. Maybe Schwarber can play 2-3 games out of 10 at 1B and 1 at DH.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, with such high needs at pitching and defense, as much as I love Schwarber, unless we trade a big contract and poor fielder (Bogey or JD), I'm not sure Schwarber should eat up such a big chunk of our winter spending budget. If I felt like you did about Casas in 2022, it would be a no brainer to trade JD or sign Schwarber- not have both for 2022.

 

 

I don't have an equivalent set of suggestions for Bloom, but trust him to evaluate the pros and cons and take action accordingly. I take him at his word that he is trying to develop our prospect list such that we can bolster the team with a few low cost players a year to keep us competitive year to year.

 

We both trust Bloom, and I would not be surprised if he does something surprising- like trading Bogey or JD or shifting some defensive positions around. I would not bet on it, but I think he does something creative or shocking..

[moonslav59]

 

All of sudden we are talking about defense but with Xander and Devers, at best we're average on the left side.

 

It's a dream to think it's even close to average.

 

Our left side D and 1B, combines are horrible. Devers is the only one approaching average.

 

Force Kike to 2B, and no slight on Cora, who loves his 2B D, our If sucks- BIGTIME on D!

 

Maybe Devers finds consistency. He has shown he can be plus. Maybe Dalbec improves, but as of right now, our D sucks.

[moonslav59]

Richards - Bloom might decline the team option and then try to sign him for less, like he did with Perez?

 

When we signed Richards we knew it was a big gamble. He made $10M because he used to be a great pitcher. It was ONLY $10M, because nobody knew if he'd pitch 5 innings, 50 or 150.

 

I think he's proven he's healthy.

 

The tough part about placing value is the position change from starter to RP'er and possible closer.

 

Unlike Perez, he has a hefty buyout clause of $1.5M. Basically, we pay him $10M for 2022 or $1.5M to say bye-bye. It's effectively an $8.5M choice, which seems fair to the team.

 

I think we take his option, say no to Perez ($500K buyout or $6M).

 

I also think we say yes to the Vaz option of $7M vs $250K buyout.

[moonslav59]

I’m not sure who’s going to be on the trade market as in starters but I do think it’s very possible we trade for a front end Starter .I see Bobby as a piece to trade along with Verdugo .I know I’ll get tons of Flak over adding Verdugo but I’m extending Renfroe and looking to upgrade outfield Defense and find Verdugo to be an average hitting poor Defensive Outfielder.Could Duran be better than Verdugo next year ? I dont see it .Plan should be for Duran to go to Woo to start next year and build his value back up .For me I trade for the starter then. Sign a FA starter I would either stretch Houck out again or Make him a high leverage BP arm thus moving Barnes into more a setup roll and Whit into multi inning BP arm .Richards is an option to extend as a closer but I don’t think Richards wants that roll yet and think he looks for starter job s elsewhere.My opinion is to sit JDM down at end of season and discuss his diminished roll going forward noting the team will look to sign Kyle for that position.JDM can sit or he can look for a longer deal elsewhere and I think he will.I think the season was exciting we gave it one hell of a run but Covid and lack of trades at the deadline really did the guys in .Bobby D is by a Mile our most impressive improved player ...I’m so freaking happy for him and his family he’s for real with that bat which begs the question also .....if Bobby leaves via trade could you see him as a 250 hitter with 35 Bombs ? I can but I’m sticking with Kyle .

 

Richards does not have a choice. It's a team option for 2022, and I think he likes being in the pen.

 

Verdugo is a better defender in LF than Renroe is in RF, but Renfroe's cannon has saved the day enough to make him okay in Fenway's large RF.

 

I'm not sure what kind of pitcher someone gives us for Verdugo + Dalbec,

 

Signing Schwarber and trading Verdugo could work out.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's not time yet, but have to believe the Sox brain trust will sit down soon and explore all options for upgrading this team for '22 and beyond. And that's where Bloom will certainly toy with the idea of dealing the player who could bring back the most logical haul to expedite Boston's rise to sustained contention. Hint: it's not Bogaerts, who can opt out and go free from any new acquiring club. It's also not the ever-improving Dalbec, but it does involve him, because one of the defensive improvements could see him moved back to his natural position.

 

For those not exactly enamored with the thought of Devers' D at third base for the next half decade or so, what exactly could the Red Sox get for him in trade? If it's both an impact pitcher and an impact position player, does anyone who has followed Bloom's strategies the past two years think he could resist such an offer, especially instead of paying Devers what he will command on the market?

 

PS: I love watching Rafie play, and hope he's a Red Sox for life. Unfortunately, I doubt that concept is realistic going forward...

[Swiharts Ghost]

It's not time yet, but have to believe the Sox brain trust will sit down soon and explore all options for upgrading this team for '22 and beyond. And that's where Bloom will certainly toy with the idea of dealing the player who could bring back the most logical haul to expedite Boston's rise to sustained contention. Hint: it's not Bogaerts, who can opt out and go free from any new acquiring club. It's also not the ever-improving Dalbec, but it does involve him, because one of the defensive improvements could see him moved back to his natural position.

 

For those not exactly enamored with the thought of Devers' D at third base for the next half decade or so, what exactly could the Red Sox get for him in trade? If it's both an impact pitcher and an impact position player, does anyone who has followed Bloom's strategies the past two years think he could resist such an offer, especially instead of paying Devers what he will command on the market?

 

PS: I love watching Rafie play, and hope he's a Red Sox for life. Unfortunately, I doubt that concept is realistic going forward...

 

That’s freaking Blasphemy .The players we could trade before getting to Devers is pretty much every heart beat in this organization.Devers is our Face he’s the heartbeat of this team he would be a fantastic 1B then down the road like 5 years he could DH .No flame for your effort but don’t we deal Verdugo ? Bobby ? Seabold ? Casas ? York ? Before we even entertain Devers ? He’s untouchable unless you send us Vlad even then I’m hanging the phone up unless you throw in a cost controlled Ace and prospects .Sale Bogey can also hit the road before Devers .

Edited September 11, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[harmony]

That’s freaking Blasphemy .The players we could trade before getting to Devers is pretty much every heart beat in this organization.Devers is our Face he’s the heartbeat of this team he would be a fantastic 1B then down the road like 5 years he could DH .No flame for your effort but don’t we deal Verdugo ? Bobby ? Seabold ? Casas ? York ? Before we even entertain Devers ? He’s untouchable unless you send us Vlad even then I’m hanging the phone up unless you throw in a cost controlled Ace and prospects .Sale Bogey can also hit the road before Devers .

Two years of 24-year-old Rafael Devers, who has posted 4.2 fWAR this season, does not land four years of 22-year-old Vladimir Guerrero Jr., who has posted 6.2 fWAR this season.

[oldtimer]

My responses to Oldtimer...

 

The way you listed the pitchers in your list as Scherzer, Sale, __Trade for Bogey__, Eovaldi, and on implies the addition would be a third starter type. That's how I read it. Bogey has 8 recorded errors this year to date, so I presume you are looking for a replacement with additional range. I do recognize shortstop to be a very important defensive position as do perhaps 100 % of those who post on this site. I also mentioned that Bogey will become a FA in 2022, so that has to factor into whatever Bloom decides to do.

 

Being listed behind Scherzer and Sale does not mean you are a typical 3rd starter like maybe ERod. How good the pitcher we get depends on years of team control. I'm not handing Bogey away. He has enormous value. Maybe we trade him for someone Bloom views as a great closer plus a top prospect arm.

 

Scherzer would be a costly signing. Would you sign him for more than one year?

 

He won't take one year, but he won't get 5+ like Syndergaard and Gausman will likely get- warts and all.

 

I'd offer a 2 year deal with a team option for 3 and a hefty buyout to make those 2 years very enticing. I'd probably settle on 3 years $93M.

 

 

I pointed out that there will be a lot of competition to sign Iglesias. That will make him expensive, but worthwhile if we can get him.

 

I'm usually not one to think spending big on a closer is worth it, so I'm not sure about this one. Maybe a trade for a closer is best.

 

 

To the question of Dalbec, Bogey and Devers, I pointed out the many questions and difficulties that Bloom faces in trying to retain player prospects while improving the defense. Those problems will not go away because we or Bloom wish them to. Your suggestions I took as creative but instead of responding to the issues I mentioned you went on the attack mode asking me for a solution to the very knotty problems facing Bloom.

 

I'm sorry for the attitude I took. Your points were well thought out and logical. I do get a sense that you so love these guys offense, that you are willing to roll back a replay of 2021 just to keep watching our great offensive players booting balls allover the place on D.

 

 

Yes, I would prefer Schwaber in his prime years over JDM in his post prime years for the DH role.

 

No dispute on Schwarber over JD from me on 2022, but if JD comes back, we are basically packing our D in for 2022 by having both on the roster. I'd be fine with Schwarber and JD, but only if we made a radical improvement on defense at SS or 1B & 3B combined. (That's not easy to do.)

 

I have no idea if Devers would be better at 1st base than Dalbec. I do believe Casas will make an appearance on the Sox roster later in 2022. He is a natural first baseman with soft hands and is our #1 prospect. If he continues to progress he should make the team and should not be traded.

 

In all seriousness, nobody can be worse than Dalbec- the 2021 version. Devers is very quick-reflexed. I'm not sacrificing what's best for the team in hopes that Casas comes to the rescue as early as 2022. BTW, what do we do with Schwarber, JD, Dalbec, Devers and Casas squeezed into 4 slots, in which 3 will be sub par defense?

 

If you really want Casas in the 2022 plans, then either JD has to opt out ot be traded, Schwarber not signed or Dalbec traded. Devers isn't going anywhere.

 

 

I have no desire for the Sox to get rid of Dalbec as he has blossomed as a power hitter. He credits Schwaber, by the way, as helping him to improve. I don't want to get rid of Devers either, and that is where Bloom must make some tough choices. Do we trade Bogey, move Devers to first and Dalbec to DH as you suggest and then trade Casas since he would be blocked. Not sign Schwaber as you also suggest. Then pick up an aging SS and an all star 3rd baseman?

 

I'm fine with Schwarber in LF until he moves to DH in 2023, but I'm not weakening LF defense and keeping our IF D the same. I can't support that. If Casas wins the job, then we trade Dalbec. I would not trade him, until we see Casas succeed. How does he get playing time to prove it? It's like Duran 1A.

 

Look, I love Dalbec. I think I was the last guy saying he might need to be demoted during one of is long slumps. The guy can hit. I'm still hopeful he can bring his OBP up to respectability, so it outweighs his poor D. I also expected to see his defense improve, and I think he is better now than earlier, and he makes some nice plays. He has just made so many brutal errors and countless non plays not listed as errors. Luckily, I'm not huge on feeling great D is needed at 1B (or LF). I want to keep Dalbec and his low cost contract in the fold and slotted for 1B/3B/DH, next year- maybe sitting a few more games vs RHPs than a FT player usually sees. Maybe Schwarber can play 2-3 games out of 10 at 1B and 1 at DH.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, with such high needs at pitching and defense, as much as I love Schwarber, unless we trade a big contract and poor fielder (Bogey or JD), I'm not sure Schwarber should eat up such a big chunk of our winter spending budget. If I felt like you did about Casas in 2022, it would be a no brainer to trade JD or sign Schwarber- not have both for 2022.

 

 

I don't have an equivalent set of suggestions for Bloom, but trust him to evaluate the pros and cons and take action accordingly. I take him at his word that he is trying to develop our prospect list such that we can bolster the team with a few low cost players a year to keep us competitive year to year.

 

We both trust Bloom, and I would not be surprised if he does something surprising- like trading Bogey or JD or shifting some defensive positions around. I would not bet on it, but I think he does something creative or shocking..

 

In a parting note for now, I see Dalbec in baseball the same way I used to see Roberto Duran in boxing. Hands of stone. All kidding aside, I'm afraid Dalbec has neither the agility, hand eye coordination of soft hands to play defense effectively at 1st and he is little better at 3rd. He does have the arm for 3rd. So I took your comment seriously about making him a DH with limited duty at 1st and 3rd. I also don't want to lose Rafie so want to keep him happy. Would he do well at first and be happy there? Those are hard to assess. He has agility and wouldn't have to make the throws from 3rd, which appear to be his chief bugaboo. I know Rafie and Bogey are close so would Rafie get turned off if we trade Bogie? I don't know and realize Bogie hits FA status after 2022. I suppose some will criticize my thinking that if we can sign Schwaber I would engineer a trade to move JDM. While JDM is still viable and probably because he is, it's the right time to trade him or let him opt out. We simply can't have both of them if the defense is to improve and I believe Schwaber to be the better choice for the Sox. he problem of playing him in left field is that we lose the talent of a good young left fielder in Verdugo. I don't see an easy way out so Bloom has a challenge. Maybe with his staff resources he can come up with some unique approaches and surprise us all in a positive way.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That’s freaking Blasphemy .The players we could trade before getting to Devers is pretty much every heart beat in this organization.Devers is our Face he’s the heartbeat of this team he would be a fantastic 1B then down the road like 5 years he could DH .No flame for your effort but don’t we deal Verdugo ? Bobby ? Seabold ? Casas ? York ? Before we even entertain Devers ? He’s untouchable unless you send us Vlad even then I’m hanging the phone up unless you throw in a cost controlled Ace and prospects .Sale Bogey can also hit the road before Devers .

 

Not disagreeing with you, but my post wasn't made as an option I favor. I'm only trying to prepare myself for what Bloom may be thinking.

 

And as far as I know, the only people who have ever discussed moving Devers to first base are fans or media. The Red Sox didn't even try it when they were dead last in a lost pandemic year with Rafie leading the majors in errors.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Two years of 24-year-old Rafael Devers, who has posted 4.2 fWAR this season, does not land four years of 22-year-old Vladimir Guerrero Jr., who has posted 6.2 fWAR this season.

 

Seriously Harmony ? You can take that to a Blue jays board .i bet you thought Betts should be traded for Verdugo too right ??? And not pony up cash ? Guess what that kids going to win multiple World Series there and they will continue to spend money .Devers in my opinion will age better than Vladdy Jr and I’m not trading Devers for Trout always injured or Vlad Jr .....Betts yup let’s talk .

[Swiharts Ghost]

Story does post stellar defensive metrics at SS and is probably worth keeping there.

 

There have been some longstanding rumors that the Rangers will go heavily after Irving, Texas native Trevor Story…

 

Notin what’s a fair offer for him ? And what’s his range ? Feel like after Pedey we get torched with balls he would make routine.

[Swiharts Ghost]

What starter owns the Rays on the FA market or maybe available via trade ? I start looking into that individual yesterday .

[Swiharts Ghost]

Not disagreeing with you, but my post wasn't made as an option I favor. I'm only trying to prepare myself for what Bloom may be thinking.

 

And as far as I know, the only people who have ever discussed moving Devers to first base are fans or media. The Red Sox didn't even try it when they were dead last in a lost pandemic year with Rafie leading the majors in errors.

I hear ya man I’m just so disappointed in the way we handled Betts still .Everyone has a value and I still can’t believe Bloom failed so miserably in meeting that value in a once in a generation player in Boston .First player should have been a front end starter and then a position player .I don’t like Bloom much for Betts and have come to dispise his failure at this deadline .Bloom has made great decisions I won’t deny in Renfroe and Kike even though I think Kike is highly overrated playing second .Moving forward I give Bloom 1 more season if I’m Henry .

[moonslav59]

It's not time yet, but have to believe the Sox brain trust will sit down soon and explore all options for upgrading this team for '22 and beyond. And that's where Bloom will certainly toy with the idea of dealing the player who could bring back the most logical haul to expedite Boston's rise to sustained contention. Hint: it's not Bogaerts, who can opt out and go free from any new acquiring club. It's also not the ever-improving Dalbec, but it does involve him, because one of the defensive improvements could see him moved back to his natural position.

 

For those not exactly enamored with the thought of Devers' D at third base for the next half decade or so, what exactly could the Red Sox get for him in trade? If it's both an impact pitcher and an impact position player, does anyone who has followed Bloom's strategies the past two years think he could resist such an offer, especially instead of paying Devers what he will command on the market?

 

PS: I love watching Rafie play, and hope he's a Red Sox for life. Unfortunately, I doubt that concept is realistic going forward...

 

My brain hurts to even think about the concept of beginning to consider trading Devers.

[moonslav59]

In a parting note for now, I see Dalbec in baseball the same way I used to see Roberto Duran in boxing. Hands of stone. All kidding aside, I'm afraid Dalbec has neither the agility, hand eye coordination of soft hands to play defense effectively at 1st and he is little better at 3rd. He does have the arm for 3rd. So I took your comment seriously about making him a DH with limited duty at 1st and 3rd. I also don't want to lose Rafie so want to keep him happy. Would he do well at first and be happy there? Those are hard to assess. He has agility and wouldn't have to make the throws from 3rd, which appear to be his chief bugaboo. I know Rafie and Bogey are close so would Rafie get turned off if we trade Bogie? I don't know and realize Bogie hits FA status after 2022. I suppose some will criticize my thinking that if we can sign Schwaber I would engineer a trade to move JDM. While JDM is still viable and probably because he is, it's the right time to trade him or let him opt out. We simply can't have both of them if the defense is to improve and I believe Schwaber to be the better choice for the Sox. he problem of playing him in left field is that we lose the talent of a good young left fielder in Verdugo. I don't see an easy way out so Bloom has a challenge. Maybe with his staff resources he can come up with some unique approaches and surprise us all in a positive way.

 

Signing Schwarber and trading JD lets all the pieces fall into place.

 

On trading JD (assuming no opt out), he might have a negative trade value, but with just one year left, I think a few teams would take him. We'd have to throw in some cash or take back a salary or two to make the money fit for another team.

 

BTV has him at +2.9, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

While this offense looks superb:

 

3B: Devers (Dalbec)

SS: Bogey

1B: Dalbec (Schwarber/Casas)

 

I think we need to improve the defense at SS or 3B+1B combined.

 

I also want to keep Kike in CF.

 

We should be able to make this work, somehow.

 

I threw one idea out there, but there are several options, especially if the wallet is opened wide.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

My brain hurts to even think about the concept of beginning to consider trading Devers.

 

And yet nothing that happens should surprise us, especially when the vocabulary includes arbitration, agents, and extensions. Once the Sox traded Mookie -- a star hitter, fielder and baserunner -- it's a lot easier to trade Rafie, merely a star hitter.

[Bellhorn04]

And yet nothing that happens should surprise us, especially when the vocabulary includes arbitration, agents, and extensions. Once the Sox traded Mookie -- a star hitter, fielder and baserunner -- it's a lot easier to trade Rafie, merely a star hitter.

 

I have to agree. If you'll trade Mookie Betts, you'll trade anyone.

[moonslav59]

I'm not saying it can't happen, but with Bogey's opt out, he might be more likely to go than many think.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not saying it can't happen, but with Bogey's opt out, he might be more likely to go than many think.

 

And X is such a good pal of Devers, that could cause Rafie to want to leave, thus justifying a clean sweep for Bloom, who can acquire legit stop-gaps while awaiting his self-assembled infield of the future sustained contenders (L to R): Jordan, Mayer, Yorke and Niko Kavadas... just kidding, Casas (Dombro draft).

[moonslav59]

Some of the money we are thinking may go towards pitching or a big bat may instead go to locking up Devers long term, renegotiating Bogey's deal or extending guys like Renfroe, Kike, Verdugo, Houck and others while their value may be a bit unknown.

[harmony]

What starter owns the Rays on the FA market or maybe available via trade ? I start looking into that individual yesterday .

Seattle lefthander Yusei Kikuchi is 2-0 with a 1.38 ERA against the Tampa Bay Rays in two career starts (both this year).

 

After this season the Mariners have a four-year, $56 million option on the 2021 All Star. If the Mariners do not exercise the option, Kikuchi can exercise a $13 million player option for 2022. The 30-year-old Kikuchi becomes a free agent if he declines the player option.

 

James Paxton is 3-1 with a 3.61 ERA in seven career starts against the Rays. Felix Hernandez is 9-3 with a 2.19 ERA in 18 career starts against Tampa Bay,

Edited September 11, 2021 by harmony

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Signing Schwarber and trading JD lets all the pieces fall into place.

 

I totally support this idea. If you want a stronger defense next year, Schwarber must DH. Both JD and Schwarber are poor defensive players. JD has been a great Red Sox but it is the nature of the game to go with the younger player who is in his prime. And JD is showing signs of decline this season, especially with his career high chase rate. If JD doesn't opt out, kick in 5 million, and trade him.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Verdugo sucks against lefthanders. It makes sense to look for a 4th OF next year who rakes against lefties and can play LF. I thought M.Wilson might be that guy but the Red Sox weren't interested in Wilson obviously.

 

Maybe you don't need to bring someone new in and instead play Kike in the OF against lefties or something like that.

 

As far as Duran goes, I have him playing everyday next year, starting in CF, and batting ninth. He may need a few months to adjust to major league pitching, but I would invest that kind of playing time in him.

 

The Devers situation is tricky. He is awful defensively, but I'm also worried about his defense at 1b.

 

I would probably go with this next year:

 

1b: Dalbec (but I would also shop Dalbec to see if some team, with a hole at 3b, will overpay in a trade for Dalbec).

2b: Hernandez

SS: Bogaerts

3b: Devers

C: Vasquez

LF: Verdugo

CF: Duran

RF: Renfroe

DH: Schwarber

 

Against lefties: Arroyo plays 2b, Kike goes to the OF, and Verdugo sits. Against RHP, Arroyo would be used as a super-utility guy.

 

Sure, my infield defense remains weak, but my OF defense is very good.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Elktonnick]

Verdugo sucks against lefthanders. It makes sense to look for a 4th OF next year who rakes against lefties and can play LF. I thought M.Wilson might be that guy but the Red Sox weren't interested in Wilson obviously.

 

Maybe you don't need to bring someone new in and instead play Kike in the OF against lefties or something like that.

 

As far as Duran goes, I have him playing everyday next year, starting in CF, and batting ninth. He may need a few months to adjust to major league pitching, but I would invest that kind of playing time in him.

 

The Devers situation is tricky. He is awful defensively, but I'm also worried about his defense at 1b.

 

I would probably go with this next year:

 

1b: Dalbec (but I would also shop Dalbec to see if some team, with a hole at 3b, will overpay in a trade for Dalbec).

2b: Hernandez

SS: Bogaerts

3b: Devers

C: Vasquez

LF: Verdugo

CF: Duran

RF: Renfroe

DH: Schwarber

 

Against lefties: Arroyo plays 2b, Kike goes to the OF, and Verdugo sits. Against RHP, Arroyo would be used as a super-utility guy.

 

Sure, my infield defense remains weak, but my OF defense is very good.

I know I am in the minority but I still believe Devers can and will be a gold glove outstanding defensive third baseman.

If you look carefully at all his errors they are mostly mental not physical ones. They either stem from his trying to do too much or rushing throws.

 

Yesterday's error on the possible double play was a typical case. He rushed his attempt to throw the ball before he had a grip on the ball, causing him to drop the ball.

 

Finally, I don't like the alignment Cora's uses on that shift. I prefer the alignment where the third baseman move to the right side of second and the shortstop remains on the left side. That way only one man is out of position not two.

[Nick]

As usual, I think Sox fans are overvaluing its players.

 

Another year older and his lack of defense being exposed (he's not going to increase his 'range' anytime soon), Xander will leave $80M over 4 yrs on the table, including an option if he's healthy.

 

What contender will give him a big raise?

 

What up and coming team will make him the center piece of the rebuild?

 

Give me some names please.

 

Owners want to bring down the luxury tax limit. Will one of them offer Xander substantial raise?

 

Hell, many of the regulars here want to trade him to improve our defense.