What does Frenchy have on the Red Sox

[mvp 78]

Much like Cordero...

 

Ok. Guess we gotta give Swihart another chance?

[mvp 78]

I would be surprised if the Sox called up Wilson and demoted Cordero.

 

It might give immediate benefits, but over any length of time, I suspect Cordero will outperform Wilson...

 

I agree. I think Franchy has been hitting into some loud outs lately. It was a massive struggle at one point, but it looks like there are signs he could pull out of it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There was also an argument about Christian Vazquez after his first two years and 385 PA as a Red Sox player, with several favoring Blake Swihart as the starter. Vazquez numbers after two years and 385 PA were worse than Cordero’s career numbers to date. Did you have an opinion on who should be the starting catcher going forward?

 

I did. I was all about Swihart. Oops. Lesson learned...

 

I wanted Vazquez, but it had nothing to do with his bat. I'd heard he had an IRod cannon, and was working out winters with the Molina brothers ("11GGs!" said 5GGs). The other reason was that Swihart seemed like a project behind the plate, and the Sox liked his potential so much they considered him for other positions.

 

I might be impulsive and spontaneous (at least on posts), but I try to be consistent when it comes to how much I value defense, and how underrated it seems to be when fans and talking heads assess ballplayers and teams.

[moonslav59]

Very SSS on Wilson. His current pace of 64 HRs is untenable.

 

It's not about his 2021 numbers. He's likely more ML ready, right now, than Santana or Duran.

 

If Sox brass thinks Duran is ML ready, then I'm all for him instead of Wilson.

 

Wilson played more, this spring, than Santana and more in the minors, so far (6 games to 3).

[notin]

I wanted Vazquez, but it had nothing to do with his bat. I'd heard he had an IRod cannon, and was working out winters with the Molina brothers ("11GGs!" said 5GGs). The other reason was that Swihart seemed like a project behind the plate, and the Sox liked his potential so much they considered him for other positions.

 

I might be impulsive and spontaneous (at least on posts), but I try to be consistent when it comes to how much I value defense, and how underrated it seems to be when fans and talking heads assess ballplayers and teams.

 

With the exception of Ozzie Smith, no one seemed to care about defense from any player for a long, long time. And in Ozzie’s case it was probably the back flips that people wanted to cover. You never saw these same talking heads getting all gaga over Mark Belanger.

 

Even Gold Glove awards years ago seemed to be influenced by offense...

[moonslav59]

I would be surprised if the Sox called up Wilson and demoted Cordero.

 

It might give immediate benefits, but over any length of time, I suspect Cordero will outperform Wilson...

 

And he can, once he's worked things out in AAA and earned a return visit and second chance.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You never saw these same talking heads getting all gaga over Mark Belanger.

 

 

In ancient times... the only talking heads were just guys at the bah. With limited multi-media coverage, there were a lot less industry voices, but maybe they carried more authority. The opinions of managers and coaches were more respected, relayed to fandom through radio or (rare) TV interviews, but mostly newsprint quotes via beat reporters.

 

I still have an old Baseball Digest with an article headlined "Orioles Stars" with photos of Frank and Brooks Robinson... and Mark Belanger (batting .220).

[Kimmi]

The one questionable thing Chaim did this offseason was replacing Beni with Cordero.

 

Depends on how you look at the move. This was definitely a move geared towards the long term, in which case it might end up being a really good move.

 

Questionable in terms of this year, for sure.

 

Personally, I thought we should have kept Beni.

[Kimmi]

All I'm saying is this move left us a little shorthanded in the outfield. The trade itself may be fine, but maybe should have picked up another outfielder.

 

100%

 

Ditto

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ditto

 

Bloom's OF plan sucked. There's no denying this!

 

But not if the Sox never thought they would contend. Not signing one of the many legitimate good-glove outfielders that were available and very affordable was a sure sign.

 

Maybe the plan was this: the line-up for an also-ran is the perfect place for an open audition for starting spots, especially for Bloom to see if one of his baubles develops into a gem. Remember, he said he's really looking forward to watching the next core emerge...

 

The "dilemma", as you and others have noted, is the Sox had the best record in baseball the first six weeks.

[moonslav59]

It took 3 concurrent injuries to run out of ML ready OF'er before Duran was ready.

 

It's not a massive overlook.

 

I do think we should have signed someone like Marisnick, in case something like this happened, but Santana should be ready soon, and Kike might be off the IL soon.

 

Who knows when Sox brass deems Duran ML ready.

[oldtimer]

But not if the Sox never thought they would contend. Not signing one of the many legitimate good-glove outfielders that were available and very affordable was a sure sign.

 

Maybe the plan was this: the line-up for an also-ran is the perfect place for an open audition for starting spots, especially for Bloom to see if one of his baubles develops into a gem. Remember, he said he's really looking forward to watching the next core emerge...

 

The "dilemma", as you and others have noted, is the Sox had the best record in baseball the first six weeks.

My view is the Sox went into this season with very moderate expectations and the idea of strengthening the prospect list while as you say picking up some 1 or 2 year players who were rejects from their own teams in hopes of picking up a gem or two. On the pitching side they did pick up Richards and Ottavino to solidify the staff. The starting pitching has been solid while Cora is still searching for the right mix in the BP. With a lot of dead money this year in Pedroia, Price, Sale and Beni and a desire to remain under the CBT, the Sox were not thinking contention.

 

What has occurred, perhaps due to the weak early schedule and the hot hitting of our core players, the Sox has looked like a contender. That has been despite the black hole at the bottom of the lineup consisting of Dalbec, Renfroe and Cordero. We were getting a little out of Arroyo and Hernandez but they now are on the IL. Our replacements for them (Chavis and Arauz) are got game changers, It is predictable that our hot hitters would cool off a bit. The season is a grind so we need some others to share the offensive load. That hasn't happened so we are losing winnable games with a woeful lack of run production.

 

So what to do? I never expected fill ins and rejects to carry the team, but I did hope for some level of competence. To Bloom's credit, we have done so on the pitching staff, but not s much with the position players. We will get Arroyo and Hernandez back and Renfroe has shown signs of life offensively to complement his good outfield defense. I believe Moon has suggested platooning Dalbec, although if he can't produce at all he might do well to get this swing together at a lower level. Cordero is the mystery to me. He has been awful offensively and average defensively. He has options. Why management refuses to try someone different is a mystery to me. Santana and Duran are awaiting a chance. Isn't the idea to bring up our prospects this year to see which ones will fir going forward into 2022 and beyond. We also have Downs and perhaps later Casas.

 

I hate to see us squander our good start without at least trying to make changes where players are obviously not getting the job done. Is it Bloom? Is it Cora? Who are making these decisions?

[notin]

And he can, once he's worked things out in AAA and earned a return visit and second chance.

 

That would probably happen if they thought Wilson or Santana or whoever was an immedaite improvement...

[moonslav59]

That would probably happen if they thought Wilson or Santana or whoever was an immedaite improvement...

 

They must think it's worth a shot, but their readiness to play, right now, is the issue, IMO>

[mvp 78]

They must think it's worth a shot, but their readiness to play, right now, is the issue, IMO>

 

Wilson is ready to play. I just don't think he's that good.

[moonslav59]

Wilson is ready to play. I just don't think he's that good.

 

I don't either, but he's likely not a .400 hitter.

 

(Maybe Cordero isn't either- going forward.)

[mvp 78]

I don't either, but he's likely not a .400 hitter.

 

(Maybe Cordero isn't either- going forward.)

 

I think Cordero could hit 400 in AAA.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ditto

 

That would probably happen if they thought Wilson or Santana or whoever was an immedaite improvement...

 

I watched the NESN replay of last night's Worcester game. Wilson played left, Santana played third, Munoz played first. That might tell us something, but who knows. Downs has been at short, so it doesn't look like he's being groomed to play second as a Big League call-up this summer.

[notin]

I watched the NESN replay of last night's Worcester game. Wilson played left, Santana played third, Munoz played first. That might tell us something, but who knows. Downs has been at short, so it doesn't look like he's being groomed to play second as a Big League call-up this summer.

 

Pawtucket, I mean Worcester, seems to have very little in the way of middle infield depth, espy with Chavis and Arauz in Boston and De La Guerra injured...

[notin]

I think Cordero could hit 400 in AAA.

 

Certainly over a 6 game stretch....

[mvp 78]

I watched the NESN replay of last night's Worcester game. Wilson played left, Santana played third, Munoz played first. That might tell us something, but who knows. Downs has been at short, so it doesn't look like he's being groomed to play second as a Big League call-up this summer.

 

They have moved Santana all over the diamond. I think he's played 1b, 2b, 3b and LF.

[mvp 78]

Certainly over a 6 game stretch....

 

On no. He's the type of guy who could just be a monster in AAA.

[mvp 78]

Pawtucket, I mean Worcester, seems to have very little in the way of middle infield depth, espy with Chavis and Arauz in Boston and De La Guerra injured...

 

Downs, Munoz, Santana and some guy named Jack Lopez.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't either, but he's likely not a .400 hitter.

 

(Maybe Cordero isn't either- going forward.)

 

We're talking .400 OPS, right?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Downs, Munoz, Santana and some guy named Jack Lopez.

 

Lopez (10-year pro) has been smashing the ball; he's already been promoted from Portland to WooSoxter.

 

Any theories why Downs the future-second baseman is still at short (and has been since ST)? Is he first on the depth chart if X is injured... or opts-out? Perhaps he is being showcased (maybe Bloom has had discussions with another team who wants to see if Downs has MLB potential at shortstop)?

[moonslav59]

We're talking .400 OPS, right?

 

Yes.

 

Does anyone even look at BA anymore?

[notin]

Lopez (10-year pro) has been smashing the ball; he's already been promoted from Portland to WooSoxter.

 

Any theories why Downs the future-second baseman is still at short (and has been since ST)? Is he first on the depth chart if X is injured... or opts-out? Perhaps he is being showcased (maybe Bloom has had discussions with another team who wants to see if Downs has MLB potential at shortstop)?

 

 

While not always ideal, sometimes players in AA and AAA don’t play the same position in MLB. Rookie Jazz Chisholm is off to a flying start in Miami as their 2b despite spending the overwhelming bulk of his MiLB career at short. The Marlins probably anticipated him at short and highly ranked prospect Isan Diaz at 2b. But Diaz has been a flop and career utility infielder Miguel Rojas has been hit as the starting shortstop. So Chisholm slid into the new role...

[moonslav59]

Any theories why Downs the future-second baseman is still at short (and has been since ST)? Is he first on the depth chart if X is injured... or opts-out? Perhaps he is being showcased (maybe Bloom has had discussions with another team who wants to see if Downs has MLB potential at shortstop)?

 

SS holds the highest value- to us or as trade value.

 

Once he's close to ML ready, then they will look at the big club positional needs, and perhaps move him to 2B.

 

We are actually kinda light on SS depth. If Bogey goes down, we have Marwin and Arauz.

 

At 2B, we have Kike, Arroyo, Marwin, Chavis, Santana and Munoz.

 

Has anyone heard anything about how good he is at SS defense? (You don't have to be all that good to be better than Bogey.)

[notin]

SS holds the highest value- to us or as trade value.

 

Once he's close to ML ready, then they will look at the big club positional needs, and perhaps move him to 2B.

 

We are actually kinda light on SS depth. If Bogey goes down, we have Marwin and Arauz.

 

At 2B, we have Kike, Arroyo, Marwin, Chavis, Santana and Munoz.

 

Has anyone heard anything about how good he is at SS defense? (You don't have to be all that good to be better than Bogey.)

 

Jeter is probably not a SS long term. He really doesn’t have the arm. 2b seems like a better fit. But if he plays SS in Worcester, I am not going to look too deeply at it.

 

As for Sox minor league SS depth, the best defensive shortstop between Bogaerts and Matthew Lugo is probably Jeremy Rivera. And he’s about as fringey as it gets prospect-wise. In MLB, he’d probably make Franchy Cordero look like Tony Gwynn at the plate...

[mvp 78]

Jeter is probably not a SS long term. He really doesn’t have the arm. 2b seems like a better fit. But if he plays SS in Worcester, I am not going to look too deeply at it.

 

As for Sox minor league SS depth, the best defensive shortstop between Bogaerts and Matthew Lugo is probably Jeremy Rivera. And he’s about as fringey as it gets prospect-wise. In MLB, he’d probably make Franchy Cordero look like Tony Gwynn at the plate...

 

People also thought Xander wasn't SS long term.