Beni traded to Royals

[moonslav59]

The only reason why I think these are players to be named is that the sox asked for 2020 draftees who cannot be moved until 12 months after the draft. If so, then the sox dealt Beni for Cordero (fringe MLBer), Winckowski (probably in line for some big league work in 2021) and 3 guys who are a long way's off. You likely won't hear about the 3 players until June 12th, over a year after completion of last year's draft

 

Maybe, but some reports say the Sox have a pool of players to choose from, and they wanted some time to look them over, since last year was a lost season for minor leaguers.

[notin]

This was not a 3 team trade, FYI.

 

The sox dealt Beni to the Royals for Cordero, Lee, and 2 PTBNL's

 

They then shipped Lee to the Mets for Winckowski and another PTBNL

 

The only reason why I think these are players to be named is that the sox asked for 2020 draftees who cannot be moved until 12 months after the draft. If so, then the sox dealt Beni for Cordero (fringe MLBer), Winckowski (probably in line for some big league work in 2021) and 3 guys who are a long way's off. You likely won't hear about the 3 players until June 12th, over a year after completion of last year's draft

 

I thought draft picks could now be dealt after the World Series of their draft year.

 

And if the Sox are getting some 2020 draft picks, collegiate players are not always a long way off. If the PTBNL from the Mets is RHP J.T. Ginn (2020 2nd rounder from Mississippi State), he turns 22 in a couple months and might even be in AA by the end of the upcoing season. Jumping from AA to MLB is far from unheard of...

[Kimmi]

They reset last year. Why is there no flexibility this year?

 

Because we don't have a farm and enough upcoming cost-controlled players. Sure, we could go over the limit this year, but it really wouldn't make any sense to do so.

[moonslav59]

I thought draft picks could now be dealt after the World Series of their draft year.

 

And if the Sox are getting some 2020 draft picks, collegiate players are not always a long way off. If the PTBNL from the Mets is RHP J.T. Ginn (2020 2nd rounder from Mississippi State), he turns 22 in a couple months and might even be in AA by the end of the upcoing season. Jumping from AA to MLB is far from unheard of...

 

According to BTV, Lee has a value of 9.3.

 

They already gave is Winckowski (0.3) and this what they have that comes closest:

13.2 Vientos 3B

4.9 Ginn RHP

4.5 Ramirez OF

2.6 Dominguez RHP

 

I'm no expert on prospects, but it seems like maybe we should have just kept Lee.

 

Cordero has a 3.5 value. Beni is 4.6 (-2.8M paid)=1.8. The return might equal near 1.7. Here is what KC might offer (2 players):

4.8 Melendez C

4.1 Bowlan RHP

3.2 Pratto 1B

2.6 Marsh RHP

2.6 Hernandez RHP

2.3 Fox SS

2.0 Candelario SS

1.8 Matias OF & Hicklen OF

1.7 Hernandez RHP

1.6 McConnell SS, Massey 2B, Gentry OF & Collins OF

1.4 Hernandez C, Guzman SS, Florentino SS

1.3 Rave OF

1.2 Garcia SS

1.1 Murdock RHP, Haake RHP & Bolanos RHP

many at 1,0 and under

 

[jad]

Because we don't have a farm and enough upcoming cost-controlled players. Sure, we could go over the limit this year, but it really wouldn't make any sense to do so.

 

yeah, why would we want the inconvenience of fans?

[moonslav59]

yeah, why would we want the inconvenience of fans?

 

I guess $204M is not enough for many fans.

[Bellhorn04]

I guess $204M is not enough for many fans.

 

This team has enough talent now to be worth watching.

[moonslav59]

This team has enough talent now to be worth watching.

 

I agree.

 

I'm not expecting much more than a mild run at the wild card slot, but we could do much better than that (or a bit worse).

 

There is a lot to watch with many subplots.

 

Getting to see some prospects later in the year could be exciting, too.

 

I'm thinking Devers, Verdugo and Bogey could have career years in 2021. Maybe just one or two do, but I'm guessing at least one does.

 

Dalbec could compete for ROY.

 

EHern will be fun to watch.

 

Renfroe, Cordero, Vaz and others all can do well.

 

Our pitching looks questionable in many areas but there is a lot of chances for good to very good years from 6-8 pitchers and decenct years from another 4-6 pitchers.

 

Our defense is the only area where we look to be not only worse from last year but as bad as we've been in a long time.

 

I don't need to see 94 wins to enjoy watching, and in some ways, it might have been harder to watch a high expectation team like the 2019 team win 84 games, than this team win 81.

 

It makes it easier, for me, knowing that the future is brighter. The future did not look brighter in 2019.

[notin]

This team has enough talent now to be worth watching.

 

I agree but going over with 2022 in mind (Odorizzi?) would make sense to me...

[moonslav59]

I agree but going over with 2022 in mind (Odorizzi?) would make sense to me...

 

I could see that as making sense but not for JBJ.

 

I guess with JBJ or Odorizzi, if we sucked at the deadline, we could make enough trades to get back under.

[notin]

I could see that as making sense but not for JBJ.

 

I guess with JBJ or Odorizzi, if we sucked at the deadline, we could make enough trades to get back under.

 

I’d be ok with both. And Brandon Workman needs a good home, too...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I agree but going over with 2022 in mind (Odorizzi?) would make sense to me...

 

And to me. Some posters insist Bloom is waiting to spend big next winter, but my question has always been: who are the targets? I just don't see any pitchers due to hit free agency in a year that have the combined skills, age, and cost of Odorizzi.

 

It can't just be blamed on Bloom's budget, either, since he has added a lot of new faces. Maybe it's just too late, after Odorizzi waited for Bauer to up his own market. But Chaim knows Jake personally, and for some reason, doesn't think he's worth what he's asking.

[moonslav59]

And to me. Some posters insist Bloom is waiting to spend big next winter, but my question has always been: who are the targets? I just don't see any pitchers due to hit free agency in a year that have the combined skills, age, and cost of Odorizzi.

 

Free agency is not the only way to spend money.

 

If ERod looks healthy, extending him is one way to spend rather large and somewhat long.

 

As for FAs:

 

Some are old- some are better than Bauer and much better than Odorizzi:

 

Syndergaard

Kershaw

Scherzer

Verlander

Greinke

Lynn, McCullers

 

RP:

K Jansen

Familia

Knebel

A Bradley

R Iglesias

 

Non pitchers:

OF: Conforto, Pham, S Marte

1B: F Freeman, A Rizzo

SS: Lindor, Correa

 

 

[moonslav59]

It can't just be blamed on Bloom's budget, either, since he has added a lot of new faces. Maybe it's just too late, after Odorizzi waited for Bauer to up his own market. But Chaim knows Jake personally, and for some reason, doesn't think he's worth what he's asking.

 

Bloom barely spent anything, last winter. He spent much more, this winter, but he had so many holes in the 40 man roster that spending large and long on one guy would have meant leaving a few slots for guys like Springs, Payamps and Mazza. Plus, IMO, Bauer, Springer and Realmutto were not the blue chippers you go all out to get. Maybe none are available, next winter either, and I know you are not for just spending on the best available just for the sake of spending and getting a little better at the expense of the future.

 

Look at all the slots Bloom filled this winter with a relatively small spending budget:

 

Richards

Ottavino

E Hernandez

Renfroe

Gonzalez

Andriese

Cordero

Sawamura

Whitlock

Non 40 man:

F German

J Winckowski

C Koss

3 PTBNL (from KCR & NYM)

 

Last summer:

Pivetta

Seabold

Potts

Rosario

non 40 man:

Wallace

 

We can haggle over any one move or small group of moves, but with all the slots needed filling, with the spending budget given, I'm not sure we could have done all that much better.

 

Had we signed Odorizzi ($13M x 3) and JBJ ($9M x 2) and had to offset those signings elsewhere, we'd be left with several holes unfilled.

 

[gojohn99]

The jury is still out for me...I'll watch but I have low expectations

 

This team has enough talent now to be worth watching.

[a700hitter]

This team has enough talent now to be worth watching.

3 excellent hitters —- JD, Bogey, and Denver’s.

 

The rest of the offense is very ordinary.

 

From a a defensive standpoint, only Vasquez is above average. It looks like an overall below average defensive team.

 

As for pitching, there isn’t a single starting pitcher that I would buy a ticket to see — and we are going with a 4 man rotation tanging from mediocrity to bleh.

 

I am not encouraged that they will be playing meaningful games after the end of July.

[moonslav59]

3 excellent hitters —- JD, Bogey, and Denver’s.

 

The rest of the offense is very ordinary.

 

Verdugo is just 24 and has this line in his last 163 games (2019+2020):

 

.300/.351/.476/.827

 

Hardly ordinary and on the upswing of his career.

 

Vaz is one of baseball's best hitting catchers. He has 30 HRs and a .798 OPS in his last 655 ABs (2019+2020)

 

Not really ordinary.

 

Dalbec has yet to prove himself.

 

I agree our defense sucks, but Verdugo is a plus OF'er and EHern has very good numbers in CF. Too bad, he may not play there much.

 

My guess is Dalbec will end up a plus at 1B in 2021.

 

I'm not a big fan of Vaz behind the plate.

[a700hitter]

Verdugo is just 24 and has this line in his last 163 games (2019+2020):

 

.300/.351/.476/.827

 

Hardly ordinary and on the upswing of his career.

 

Vaz is one of baseball's best hitting catchers. He has 30 HRs and a .798 OPS in his last 655 ABs (2019+2020)

 

Not really ordinary.

 

Dalbec has yet to prove himself.

 

I agree our defense sucks, but Verdugo is a plus OF'er and EHern has very good numbers in CF. Too bad, he may not play there much.

 

My guess is Dalbec will end up a plus at 1B in 2021.

 

I'm not a big fan of Vaz behind the plate.

Vaz had one excellent year. Hopefully, it will not be his career year. He has never been expected to be a big MLB hitter. Verdugo is solid and could be above average. I am not seeing potential to lump him in with JD or Devers or Bogey.

 

Edit: I notice that you didn’t comment on the pitching

[moonslav59]

Vaz had one excellent year. Hopefully, it will not be his career year. He has never been expected to be a big MLB hitter. Verdugo is solid and could be above average. I am not seeing potential to lump him in with JD or Devers or Bogey.

 

Edit: I notice that you didn’t comment on the pitching

 

Well, Vaz is not a great hitter, but he is one of the greatest hitting catchers, today.

 

He's had 2 very good years a decent one, for a catcher, out of the last 4 seasons:

 

.801 in '20

.798 in '19

.735 in '17

 

I didn't comment on the pitching, because there was nothing to add.

 

edit: I didn't notice you comment on Verdugo.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cora shed some light on Beni’s struggles. He bulked up against the will of the team for 2019 and he got slower. He was more muscular, not out of shape. But his bat slowed due to extra bulk.

[moonslav59]

Cora shed some light on Beni’s struggles. He bulked up against the will of the team for 2019 and he got slower. He was more muscular, not out of shape. But his bat slowed due to extra bulk.

 

Maybe the "against their will" was the poison pill they refused to swallow.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora shed some light on Beni’s struggles. He bulked up against the will of the team for 2019 and he got slower. He was more muscular, not out of shape. But his bat slowed due to extra bulk.

 

Interesting because I thought it was reported that the team suggested the bulk up.

[mvp 78]

Cora shed some light on Beni’s struggles. He bulked up against the will of the team for 2019 and he got slower. He was more muscular, not out of shape. But his bat slowed due to extra bulk.

 

That theory had been floated on here.

[moonslav59]

I read what Cora said, and he did say it was Beni’s choice, but he did not say “against team” wishes.

[mvp 78]

I read what Cora said, and he did say it was Beni’s choice, but he did not say “against team” wishes.

 

It was more Cora saying that he personally thought the best version of Benintendi was before he bulked up and that he'd "take the .400 on-base percentage, 40 doubles, 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases every year from Andrew Benintendi rather than the .260 with 30 home runs."

[Bellhorn04]

It was more Cora saying that he personally thought the best version of Benintendi was before he bulked up and that he'd "take the .400 on-base percentage, 40 doubles, 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases every year from Andrew Benintendi rather than the .260 with 30 home runs."

 

The saddest words of tongue and pen - "What might have been."

[moonslav59]

It was more Cora saying that he personally thought the best version of Benintendi was before he bulked up and that he'd "take the .400 on-base percentage, 40 doubles, 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases every year from Andrew Benintendi rather than the .260 with 30 home runs."

 

...and I agree with his sentiments.

[mvp 78]

The saddest words of tongue and pen - "What might have been."

 

That 2018 version of Beni was fun as hell. Can't believe his agent got him to throw it all away. Flew too close to the sun like Icarus.

[oldtimer]

Maybe the "against their will" was the poison pill they refused to swallow.

 

He also followed advice that he needed to pull more and hit more HR to add to his value. The opposite result occurred. Now he has to try to find himself again. I sensed an emotional reaction that was negative.

[Elktonnick]

He also followed advice that he needed to pull more and hit more HR to add to his value. The opposite result occurred. Now he has to try to find himself again. I sensed an emotional reaction that was negative.

What I don't understand is why did Cora bring this up at all. It seems to serve no useful purpose. Beni is no longer a Red Sox. Cui bono from raising this topic?