Beni traded to Royals

[mvp 78]

Welcome to "The Cliff."

 

I thought that was last year?

[harmony]

I thought that was last year?

Some cliffs are steeper than others.

 

The Red Sox may have hit bottom in 2020.

 

Or not.

[mvp 78]

Some cliffs are steeper than others.

 

The Red Sox may have hit bottom in 2020.

 

Or not.

No way they are worse than 2020, right?

[harmony]

No way they are worse than 2020, right?

That's the hope ...

 

... and expectation.

[moonslav59]

I thought that was last year?

 

You thought it would only be one year?

[moonslav59]

No way they are worse than 2020, right?

 

We've started scaling the northface wall.

[dgalehouse]

Good advice : If you are hiking , having a wonderful time , and you come to a cliff ; don't go over it or jump off of it . Turn around and go back where you were . You do have the ability to do that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I think you mean 318 wins.

 

And were they better than the ‘72-74 Oakland A’s, a team that only won 277 games but actually won three World Series titles as opposed to going 1-2?

 

'69-71 Orioles wins, regular season and postseason:

109 + 4

108 + 7

101 + 6

_______

318 + 17 = 335

 

I did say "arguably the best team", so argue away. Wins is one criteria, banners are another. Some consider how dominant a team is its own context, in its particular year and league.

 

Another is strength of competition. For me, the '18 Red Sox have an edge on the '98 Yankees because the Sox beat three 100-win teams in the postseason. The Yanks beat the 88-win Rangers, the 89-win Tribe... and the Padres.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Good advice : If you are hiking , having a wonderful time , and you come to a cliff ; don't go over it or jump off of it . Turn around and go back where you were . You do have the ability to do that.

 

Some will always turn back. Few there are among us who may choose not to leap, but can still reach over and attempt to paint some graffiti on the side... and then leave it up to the masses to decide whether the message be profound, amateurfound, unfounded or too small to find.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox may have hit bottom in 2020.

 

Or not.

 

Redundant qualifier. When you say 'may', you've already expressed uncertainty, rendering the 'or not' superfluous.

[notin]

Good advice : If you are hiking , having a wonderful time , and you come to a cliff ; don't go over it or jump off of it . Turn around and go back where you were . You do have the ability to do that.

 

So.... no progress?

 

FWIW I think this was Dombrowski’s exact plan for 2019. “Let’s just stay here with what we have.” And it didn’t work so well...

[Bellhorn04]

So.... no progress?

 

FWIW I think this was Dombrowski’s exact plan for 2019. “Let’s just stay here with what we have.” And it didn’t work so well...

 

Many said 2019 was Cora's fault.

 

The important thing is, someone must be blamed!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Many said 2019 was Cora's fault.

 

The important thing is, someone must be blamed!

 

It's my fault for getting greedy, expecting a twice-in-a-lifetime season.

[Bellhorn04]

It's my fault for getting greedy, expecting a twice-in-a-lifetime season.

 

In 2019 the pitching fell apart out of the gate. There was really no way to see it coming.

[Bellhorn04]

Another hilariously off-topic thread going here.

[harmony]

Redundant qualifier. When you say 'may', you've already expressed uncertainty, rendering the 'or not' superfluous.

Redundant for emphasis only.

Edited February 14, 2021 by harmony

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

In 2019 the pitching fell apart out of the gate. There was really no way to see it coming.

 

The five-man rotation that just won it all was back intact. How anyone could blame the GM or owners for that is beyond me.

[notin]

The five-man rotation that just won it all was back intact. How anyone could blame the GM or owners for that is beyond me.

 

As the saying goes - if you stand still, you’re roadkill....

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As the saying goes - if you stand still, you’re roadkill....

 

Henry said that after he got run over... by his own car.

[Bellhorn04]

As the saying goes - if you stand still, you’re roadkill....

 

In the words of the new leader of the free world, "Come on, man."

 

I don't think there's any empirical evidence to suggest that championship teams standing still have done a lot worse than the ones who made a bunch of changes.

 

If there is, though, I'd like to see it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

In the words of the new leader of the free world, "Come on, man."

 

I don't think there's any empirical evidence to suggest that championship teams standing still have done a lot worse than the ones who made a bunch of changes.

 

If there is, though, I'd like to see it.

 

Back in the days of the reserve clause, the '69 Orioles were upset by the Miracle Mets (it was a Baltimore-New York thing; see Colts vs. Jets). That offseason, the O's did not add one single player from another team... then they won the '70 World Series.

[Bellhorn04]

Back in the days of the reserve clause, the '69 Orioles were upset by the Miracle Mets (it was a Baltimore-New York thing; see Colts vs. Jets). That offseason, the O's did not add one single player from another team... then they won the '70 World Series.

 

There are plenty of similar examples.

[notin]

There are plenty of similar examples.

 

And before free agency, teams had two ways to improve.

 

1. Trade, which requires another team to agree

2. Bring up rookies

 

And while Baltimore stood pat, the rest of the American League had these same limitations.

 

These limitations were a big factor in why so many teams had massive World Series droughts prior to free agency. The Red Sox and the Cubs were the two most famous ones, but the White Sox, Phillies, Senators/Twins, Guardians, and a few others had the same problems. The Reds, too. Probably more...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And before free agency, teams had two ways to improve.

 

1. Trade, which requires another team to agree

2. Bring up rookies

 

And while Baltimore stood pat, the rest of the American League had these same limitations.

 

These limitations were a big factor in why so many teams had massive World Series droughts prior to free agency. The Red Sox and the Cubs were the two most famous ones, but the White Sox, Phillies, Senators/Twins, Guardians, and a few others had the same problems. The Reds, too. Probably more...

 

And trades usually hurt, because to get something, you have to give up something. As for bringing up guys from the farm, before the draft in the mid-60s, the rich got richer making high bids for the best prospects. Baltimore was a mid-market exception, because they had maybe better scouts with an organizational plan. Other franchises like San Fran and Pittsburgh were smart enough (and "tolerant" enough) to mine the as-yet untapped Caribbeans and southern Americas.

 

The modern Red Sox circa the Epstein era did well expanding their scouting efforts on a more global scale. Unfortunately, another underrated factor in the recent fallow farm is the violations that cost us some international prospects; they don't all have to be legit future stars for the talent levels to fill out minor league rosters and up the games and development of prospects.

[notin]

And trades usually hurt, because to get something, you have to give up something. As for bringing up guys from the farm, before the draft in the mid-60s, the rich got richer making high bids for the best prospects. Baltimore was a mid-market exception, because they had maybe better scouts with an organizational plan. Other franchises like San Fran and Pittsburgh were smart enough (and "tolerant" enough) to mine the as-yet untapped Caribbeans and southern Americas.

 

The modern Red Sox circa the Epstein era did well expanding their scouting efforts on a more global scale. Unfortunately, another underrated factor in the recent fallow farm is the violations that cost us some international prospects; they don't all have to be legit future stars for the talent levels to fill out minor league rosters and up the games and development of prospects.

 

The "rich get richer" mentalisty carried into the 2000's.

 

The Expos reportedly wanted to draft Derek Jeter, but he wanted the Yankees and they told him they would make him an offer, so he (politely?) told the Expos to pick someone else. And the Padres once had the overall number one pick with two consensus top choices in Steven Drew and Jared Weaver, but they realized both would not sign for an offer the Padres could afford. So they switched over to a local high school kid named Matt Bush, who might have had the rockiest road to the majors since Ron LeFlore. Both Weaver and Drew were winding down their careers by the time Bush was just establishing himself...

[moonslav59]

As the saying goes - if you stand still, you’re roadkill....

 

Standing still rarely causes a team to go from 108 wins to 84 wins.

[moonslav59]

And before free agency, teams had two ways to improve.

 

1. Trade, which requires another team to agree

 

Except when the Yanks made trades with the Royals.

[moonslav59]

The "rich get richer" mentalisty carried into the 2000's.

 

The Expos reportedly wanted to draft Derek Jeter, but he wanted the Yankees and they told him they would make him an offer, so he (politely?) told the Expos to pick someone else. And the Padres once had the overall number one pick with two consensus top choices in Steven Drew and Jared Weaver, but they realized both would not sign for an offer the Padres could afford. So they switched over to a local high school kid named Matt Bush, who might have had the rockiest road to the majors since Ron LeFlore. Both Weaver and Drew were winding down their careers by the time Bush was just establishing himself...

 

This may be the single biggest change that affected teams like the Sox, who used to draft some pretty good prospects very late in the draft due to their "signability" issues.

[illinoisredsox]

Except when the Yanks made trades with the Royals.

 

Assuming you are referring to the late 50’s/early 60’s Yankees using the KC franchise as a major league farm club, that was the Athletics, not the Royals.

[moonslav59]

Assuming you are referring to the late 50’s/early 60’s Yankees using the KC franchise as a major league farm club, that was the Athletics, not the Royals.

 

Yes, I stand corrected.