Beni traded to Royals

[mvp 78]

He went. He read too many posts here about how he wasn't a good outfielder, even though the MLB used metrics for Gold Glove nomination in the past.

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-benintendi-643217?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlb

 

Which metrics? He's not a good fielder. He gets a bad jump and has a poor arm. Usually LF is reserved for a big slugger and Beni isn't that either.

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Happy Benintendi PTBNL Day.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-benintendi-643217?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlb

 

Which metrics? He's not a good fielder. He gets a bad jump and has a poor arm. Usually LF is reserved for a big slugger and Beni isn't that either.

 

Being a big slugger has absolutely nothing to do with being a good outfielder. Benintendi has been a starting outfielder since he made the big leagues in 2016. In 2018, he was a finalist for the AL's left field Gold Glove. Rawlings uses Sabr stats to nominate candidates: https://sabr.org/sdi/2018-final#ALLF

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a fact Beni was -- at least once -- regarded as an above-average Major League left fielder. He's 26, the same age as Franchy Cordero, who has never been a good outfielder in the bigs. Now there's a bad outfielder... in my opinion.

 

From what I saw in just two months, Franchy may be the worst leftfielder I can remember playing for the Red Sox. Maybe if Hanley didn't get hurt so quickly he'd have been worse... but I'd take JD or Manny over Franchy any day.

[mvp 78]

Being a big slugger has absolutely nothing to do with being a good outfielder. Benintendi has been a starting outfielder since he made the big leagues in 2016. In 2018, he was a finalist for the AL's left field Gold Glove. Rawlings uses Sabr stats to nominate candidates: https://sabr.org/sdi/2018-final#ALLF

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a fact Beni was -- at least once -- regarded as an above-average Major League left fielder. He's 26, the same age as Franchy Cordero, who has never been a good outfielder in the bigs. Now there's a bad outfielder... in my opinion.

 

From what I saw in just two months, Franchy may be the worst leftfielder I can remember playing for the Red Sox. Maybe if Hanley didn't get hurt so quickly he'd have been worse... but I'd take JD or Manny over Franchy any day.

 

And how did SABR think he do in 2019? https://sabr.org/sdi/2019-final#ALLF

 

2017? https://sabr.org/sdi/2017-final#ALLF

 

My opinion remains that he's not a good LF.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And how did SABR think he do in 2019? https://sabr.org/sdi/2019-final#ALLF

 

2017? https://sabr.org/sdi/2017-final#ALLF

 

My opinion remains that he's not a good LF.

 

And in the opinion of the front office of the KC MLB team, he's good enough to trade for three guys and play every day in LF in the big leagues.

[mvp 78]

Franchy was good enough to acquire and start in LF on Opening Day! Chaim thought so highly of him, so he should still be our everyday LF!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Franchy was good enough to acquire and start in LF on Opening Day! Chaim thought so highly of him, so he should still be our everyday LF!

 

Chaim disagrees with you, because he sent Cordero back to the minors. If you've watched the majority of Red Sox games the past half century, here's a question: who are -- in your opinion -- the top 5 best regular Red Sox left fielders on defense since Yaz? There have only been two with a positive career dWAR.

 

Career dWAR: Crawford 1.5 (but a negative in his one full season in Boston), Beni 0.4, Nava -0.6, Greenwell -2.7, O'Leary -3.5, Bay -7.6, Rice -8.0, Gomes -12.2... Manny -21.7.

 

My Top 5: 1) Benintendi, only GG finalist; 2) Bay, 1 E in 198 games; 3. Greenie, always hustled, learned the wall, fewer Es than Rice and O'Leary; 4. Rice, mastered the wall, very conservative range; 5. O'Leary, can't recall complaints about him.

[moonslav59]

Chaim disagrees with you, because he sent Cordero back to the minors. If you've watched the majority of Red Sox games the past half century, here's a question: who are -- in your opinion -- the top 5 best regular Red Sox left fielders on defense since Yaz? There have only been two with a positive career dWAR.

 

Career dWAR: Crawford 1.5 (but a negative in his one full season in Boston), Beni 0.4, Nava -0.6, Greenwell -2.7, O'Leary -3.5, Bay -7.6, Rice -8.0, Gomes -12.2... Manny -21.7.

 

My Top 5: 1) Benintendi, only GG finalist; 2) Bay, 1 E in 198 games; 3. Greenie, always hustled, learned the wall, fewer Es than Rice and O'Leary; 4. Rice, mastered the wall, very conservative range; 5. O'Leary, can't recall complaints about him.

 

Beni was nothing special on defense. Just because we had some poor to average fielders in LF before Beni doesn't mean he was good.

 

Kike & Verdugo are already better after Beni. (BTW, Franchy had a better UZR/150, too, but I wouldn't call him better.)

 

Here are all the ones better before:

 

Reddick

Ellsbury

JBJ

DMac

Cespedes

Castillo

Gomes

 

Crawford, Bay & Nava were about the same.

 

Who the hell cares about Beni's defense of the loss of it?

[mvp 78]

Beni was nothing special on defense. Just because we had some poor to average fielders in LF before Beni doesn't mean he was good.

 

Kike & Verdugo are already better after Beni. (BTW, Franchy had a better UZR/150, too, but I wouldn't call him better.)

 

Here are all the ones better before:

 

Reddick

Ellsbury

JBJ

DMac

Cespedes

Castillo

Gomes

 

Crawford, Bay & Nava were about the same.

 

Who the hell cares about Beni's defense of the loss of it?

 

Teddy Ballgame to Yaz to Rice to Greenwell to Wil Cordero to O'Leary to Manny to Bay to Nava to CC to Gomes to Hanley to Holt to Beni to Cordero/Verdugo/whoever to Duran

 

Being top 5 in this list is nothing to brag about. Woof. Aside from Yaz, none of those guys make me feel confident out there.

[notin]

Teddy Ballgame to Yaz to Rice to Greenwell to Wil Cordero to O'Leary to Manny to Bay to Nava to CC to Gomes to Hanley to Holt to Beni to Cordero/Verdugo/whoever to Duran

 

Being top 5 in this list is nothing to brag about. Woof. Aside from Yaz, none of those guys make me feel confident out there.

 

At some point, being the Best Defensive Red Sox Left Fielder Since Yaz is an honor akin to having the fastest Ford Fiesta in your town...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

At some point, being the Best Defensive Red Sox Left Fielder Since Yaz is an honor akin to having the fastest Ford Fiesta in your town...

 

I've really found a home here on TALK sox, discussing fun topics with like-minded Red Sox fans, fondly reminiscing, passing the time together with our beloved pastoral pastime.

[a700hitter]

So the Red Sox got a 16 year old, a 17 year old, and a 23 year old A ball pitcher. Combined with what we already got that is some bag of garbage that we got in return for Benintendi. You get better toys with a Happy Meal.

[moonslav59]

Nice to see so much positivity around here.

[Nick]

Renfroe, Verdugo and Duran are all better athletes than Beni.

 

I would not put Beni in my 'core' group for the future.

[Bellhorn04]

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/andrew-benintendi-643217?stats=statcast-r-fielding-mlb

 

Which metrics? He's not a good fielder. He gets a bad jump and has a poor arm. Usually LF is reserved for a big slugger and Beni isn't that either.

 

Yeah, unless Beni significantly increases his power output, he's basically an average big league player.

[Bellhorn04]

Renfroe, Verdugo and Duran are all better athletes than Beni.

 

I would not put Beni in my 'core' group for the future.

 

Value-wise, Renfroe is a good comp for Beni. Renfroe has been the slightly better player, and he's only making 3.1 million. Beni has an actual AAV of 5 million, will get a boost next year in his final arb year.

[Hugh2]

Nice to see so much positivity around here.

 

People complaining about this trade was the most predictable thing, I suspect it will get worse before it gets better.

 

The reality is, no one should be surprised, we were told months ago that the list of prospects the Sox had to chose from were not top 20 guys at the time. We knew they would be lower level lottery ticket types, which I'm honestly fine with because I'll take the higher ceiling with the added risk.

[Hugh2]

It will take years to close the book on this trade. AB has a skill set that does not age well, but Franchy might not ever put it together either. In the end you traded two talented players who were underperforming.

 

Right now Franchy is batting .379/.419/.897 with a 1.316 OPS in AAA. If he started the year in AAA putting up those numbers people would be screaming for him to be in the majors, the reality is Franchy probably needs MLB at bats to see if he can ever make that jump. That would have been easier to do in a bridge year, and I suspect that is what the Sox FO thought this year would be.

 

Anyways, considering I knew the Sox were not getting top prospects, I really like the guys they did get. One of them might turn into a top prospect one day.

 

Luis De La Rosa looks like the type of guy who could become a good mlb starting pitcher if everything breaks right. Sox need pitching in the system. Here is a write up about him from the Royals review.

 

"De la Rosa has an array of positive projection indicators, with some of that projection already starting to bear out,” Baseball America Senior Writer Ben Badler said last year. “A former shortstop who moved to the mound before signing, De La Rosa is a bouncy athlete who has grown two inches to 6-foot-2, 175 pounds with a fastball that has also grown since signing. He’s now reaching the low-90s, with loose, easy arm action and the projection for more velocity to come. For someone without much experience on the mound, De La Rosa has shown surprising pitchability, with a slider and an advanced changeup for his age"

 

19 year old Freddy Valdez

 

Ranked as MLB Pipeline’s No. 29 international prospect during the 2018 signing period, Valdez inked a deal for $1.45 million with the Mets that July 2. He was big for the class then and that remains the case as he stands in at a listed 6-foot-3, 212 pounds. The Dominican Republic native showed off some power and ability to take a walk in his first taste of the pros in the Dominican Summer League in 2019, hitting .268/.357/.432 over 57 games. That prompted a first stateside move to the Gulf Coast League that season, and he returned to the U.S. for the instructional league last fall.

 

"The Mets like Valdez for his above-average hand speed that can result in some impressive exit velocities when he makes a solid connection. He also shows an impressive eye at the plate for someone his age, though he can get too passive at times. His swing can also get long, which holds down the overall hit tool. Valdez is a solid runner but is decidedly a corner outfielder, due to his size and struggles at times with routes and jumps. His arm is a potential above-average tool, though that too will take work as he works on his release to make the most of his arm strength.

 

There was plenty to build on for Valdez in 2020, and that will continue to be the case for him when he returns to game play in 2021. The power and arm make him a standard corner-outfield candidate at the top level, and the other holes in his game could be improved with experience."

 

Grant Gambrell He's a little older than the rest, of course every prospect is going to be older than they otherwise would be for their level after missing a year in the minors. Gambrell feels like a guy who could take off if they moved him into a bullpen role.

 

"At his best, Gambrell sits in the mid-90s with a plus breaking ball (there might be two, but if so, they've run together in my looks) and a tailing, mid-80s changeup that he uses in some clever ways, including as a means to jam righties. His stuff has been inconsistent and he missed considerable time with injury during college, which creates some relief risk. We're talking about a pitcher who only worked about four innings per outing during his sophomore year, and struggled when the Royals asked him to work as a starter and blow way past his previous single-year innings total after they drafted him in 2019. But Gambrell was sitting 94-96 during 2021 spring action and looked to me to be in much better shape than the last time I saw him. The 2020 layoff means the innings increase piece of Gambrell's developmental track still feels harrowing, but he has a power-pitcher's repertoire and a chance to really blow up this year because he came to camp with a totally different body"

[Hugh2]

Lets also not forget about Josh Winckowski who we also received in the 3 way trade.

 

He's been pretty darn good up in Portland. sporting a 2.25 era, opponents are only slugging .279 against him with 23 hits and only 9 walks in 32 innings.

[Bellhorn04]

Lets also not forget about Josh Winckowski who we also received in the 3 way trade.

 

He's been pretty darn good up in Portland. sporting a 2.25 era, opponents are only slugging .279 against him with 23 hits and only 9 walks in 32 innings.

 

Promising.

 

Bloom knows pitching.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Value-wise, Renfroe is a good comp for Beni. Renfroe has been the slightly better player, and he's only making 3.1 million. Beni has an actual AAV of 5 million, will get a boost next year in his final arb year.

 

It's a fair comparison, both are having decent seasons so far. Hunter is more a power hitter with a stronger arm; Beni makes more contact and has more speed (once a 20-20 guy). It just felt odd that big market Boston would covet the 2 million savings diff that much, but the 5-for-1 trade could yield more value down the road -- depending on whether any of the lottery cards pay off or are involved in future deals.

[Bellhorn04]

It's a fair comparison, both are having decent seasons so far. Hunter is more a power hitter with a stronger arm; Beni makes more contact and has more speed (once a 20-20 guy). It just felt odd that big market Boston would covet the 2 million savings diff that much, but the 5-for-1 trade could yield more value down the road -- depending on whether any of the lottery cards pay off or are involved in future deals.

 

It did feel a bit strange, but these Rays guys see things differently. I suspect that the return being offered was a little more than Bloom expected, so he jumped on it. Beni's value was pretty depressed after a bad second half of 2019 and a nightmarish 2020.

[moonslav59]

Renfroe, Verdugo and Duran are all better athletes than Beni.

 

I would not put Beni in my 'core' group for the future.

 

Plus, he had just one more arb year after this season- a season not expected to be a serious contention one.

 

Maybe none of these guys we get work out, but we got 5 chances. One of them, Winckowski, is already looking very promising.

[Hugh2]

This is what Bloom does, this is what he did in Tampa bay. He loads a system up with talent knowing most of them are going to bust. You don't need all of these guys to be good, sure that would be amazing and anything is possible, but he's putting his eggs into multiple baskets.

[moonslav59]

Like JBJ, Beni was a somewhat streaky hitter, unlike JBJ, his defense was not nearly as great.

 

JBJ was a .750 hitter after his first 500 PAs in MLB. He has abysmal slumps that seemed to last forever, followed by red and white hot streaks that could last for weeks or months.

 

Beni is a .780 hitter over a shorter career. His OPS seemed to yo-yo between .830 seasons and .775 ones, until the bottom fell out half way through 2019. Now, after 209 PAs, he's back up to .750, and people are acting like it's a sure thing the .830 Beni is back.

 

True, he's only about to turn 27, but he's got one more year of team control, after this one, and I seriously doubt he was going to come back with the Sox after that, no matter what happened.

 

We traded 2 years of Beni plus a little cash for 5 hopes and some salary relief that basically allowed us to sign Renfroe (or Sawamura).

 

Beni for Renfroe, Cordero, Winckowski, Valdez and 2 more PTBNLs sounds like a pretty good deal, at worst.

[Hugh2]

Beni's offense is much better than JBJ's.

 

I'd be more concerned with Benintendi's size, guys with his physicality do not age well. He's not the guy you want to sign to a long term deal. It's easy to fall in love with all every MLB player that comes up through the system but the reality is you have to man a 25 man roster. Hard decisions are made, I would have been ok with the Sox keeping AB and seeing if he could regain his level of play and go for a run this year but I understand why they made the trade too.

[moonslav59]

Which Beni is he?

 

Some cherry-picked sample sizes that leave no PA unaccounted for in his Sox career:

 

2016

.767 in first 55 PAs

.911 in last 58 PAs

 

2017

.717 in first 50 PAs

1.020 in next 90 PAs

.350 in next 82 PAs

.808 his last 436 PAs

 

2018

.712 in first 128 PAs

.961 in his middle 365 PAs

.641 his last 168 PAs

 

2019

.661 in first 57 PAs

.826 in middle 279 PAs

.745 last 279 PAs

 

2020

.442 in 52 PAs

 

2021 with KC

.624 in April (90 PAs) about the same sample size as Cordero's

.846 in his most recent 119 PAs

 

[moonslav59]

Beni's offense is much better than JBJ's.

 

I'd be more concerned with Benintendi's size, guys with his physicality do not age well. He's not the guy you want to sign to a long term deal. It's easy to fall in love with all every MLB player that comes up through the system but the reality is you have to man a 25 man roster. Hard decisions are made, I would have been ok with the Sox keeping AB and seeing if he could regain his level of play and go for a run this year but I understand why they made the trade too.

 

.780 to .750 is not "much better."

 

Yes, the 27 year old Beni is much better offensively than the 31 year old JBJ, now, but since 2015 or 2016, their offense has not been much different, overall.

 

Both were streaky as hell.

 

One was a great defender.

[Hugh2]

.780 to .750?

 

I think you mean .785 to .721. That's not a massive difference, but significant enough to call one player better than the other offensively.

[moonslav59]

.780 to .750?

 

I think you mean .785 to .721. That's not a massive difference, but significant enough to call one player better than the other offensively.

 

No, I discounted JBJ's first 500 PAs and said "from 2015 or 2016 to now."

 

It's .785 to .752 since 2015.

 

Call it cherry-picking, if you want. But they've been pretty similar on offense since Beni was called up (.785 to .745).

 

Beni has been better. My point was not "MUCH" better.