2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

and it is also a possibility that as the season progresses he moves right on up the food chain! he might be a little more talented than your average everyday #6 starting pitcher.

 

Certainly, his upside potential looks much higher than any of us thought it would be before those 3 starts with the Sox, this year.

 

I'm very optimistic, but we have to remember, it was only 17 IP.

[Larry Cook]

It could, but hopefully it doesn't, because Houck is in the rotation.

 

Until this year, lefties battered houck. Not sure what he did to fix that, but he is still mainly a two pitch pitcher. I still think he might be better suited to be a dominant closer.

 

Feltman and mata both have unbelievable stuff, but substandard control, improvement in command and control could get them to the majors in late 2021 or more likely 2022!

[oldtimer]

Until this year, lefties battered houck. Not sure what he did to fix that, but he is still mainly a two pitch pitcher. I still think he might be better suited to be a dominant closer.

 

Feltman and mata both have unbelievable stuff, but substandard control, improvement in command and control could get them to the majors in late 2021 or more likely 2022!

 

Houck is working on a third pitch (changeup) which might help him succeed as a starter. Even the top aces on their respective clubs only had 17 innings pitched in the majors at some point. Right now the kid is one of our best prospects going forward. I still think we need to sign quality younger starters if we can find them.

[cp176]

Houck is working on a third pitch (changeup) which might help him succeed as a starter. Even the top aces on their respective clubs only had 17 innings pitched in the majors at some point. Right now the kid is one of our best prospects going forward. I still think we need to sign quality younger starters if we can find them.

 

Houck has four pitches that he uses. if he becomes the player that he certainly hopes to be, it will be his slider I think that gets him there.

[moonslav59]

Houck is working on a third pitch (changeup) which might help him succeed as a starter. Even the top aces on their respective clubs only had 17 innings pitched in the majors at some point. Right now the kid is one of our best prospects going forward. I still think we need to sign quality younger starters if we can find them.

 

Not many "young" starters are free agents. It takes too many years to get to free agency.

 

To get very good young pitching, you have to trade for it.

 

Problem: what GMs are looking to trade good young pitching?

 

We couldn't even get one for Betts.

[oldtimer]

Not many "young" starters are free agents. It takes too many years to get to free agency.

 

To get very good young pitching, you have to trade for it.

 

Problem: what GMs are looking to trade good young pitching?

 

We couldn't even get one for Betts.

 

That is the problem. We can draft a top pitching prospect, but even that is risky. How many pitching prospects get injured or bomb out? We certainly can try to develop the best of the pitching prospects, something we have done poorly. As you say, trading for one is tough, since no organization wants to trade away their future. So to improve our staff, we need to get veteran pitchers and perhaps journeymen through FA or trades. Its not easy to improve our staff, so we will have to focus our offseason efforts in that direction.

[notin]

Not many "young" starters are free agents. It takes too many years to get to free agency.

 

To get very good young pitching, you have to trade for it.

 

Problem: what GMs are looking to trade good young pitching?

 

We couldn't even get one for Betts.

 

 

Well, not one we wanted to keep anyway...

[moonslav59]

Well, not one we wanted to keep anyway...

 

Even that one needed a third team getting involved.

[Larry Cook]

Not many "young" starters are free agents. It takes too many years to get to free agency.

 

To get very good young pitching, you have to trade for it.

 

Problem: what GMs are looking to trade good young pitching?

 

We couldn't even get one for Betts.

 

But hey, at least they took price off our hands and allowed us to get the reset!

[moonslav59]

But hey, at least they took price off our hands and allowed us to get the reset!

 

To me, that was a plus for us.

 

Others seem to think LA got the better on that one part of the deal.

[Larry Cook]

To me, that was a plus for us.

 

Others seem to think LA got the better on that one part of the deal.

 

I think the only “get” that the dodgers got on us, was making us keep half of price’s salary.

 

Other than that, I think the trade was a win for us and sped up the recovery process by a year or more.

[jacksonianmarch]

It was a great trade. Your reset from last year unlocks your financial assets. Verdugo locks up the position for the next 4 years. Adding Downs is the kicker here. I was shocked you got out from half of Price’s deal, got Verdugo and got a real prospect

[moonslav59]

It was a great trade. Your reset from last year unlocks your financial assets. Verdugo locks up the position for the next 4 years. Adding Downs is the kicker here. I was shocked you got out from half of Price’s deal, got Verdugo and got a real prospect

 

Were you shocked that Betts put the Dodgers over the top?

 

You gotta give to get.

[jacksonianmarch]

Watching Betts with disdain is like making a good gain on a stock and then watching it rise after and kicking yourself. You gotta take the fact that you made a good gain. That he won a title in Dodger blue is irrelevant. You got long term assets for a guy who wasn’t sticking around long term and was only going to affect your draft position in an otherwise abysmal 2020

[cp176]

Watching Betts with disdain is like making a good gain on a stock and then watching it rise after and kicking yourself. You gotta take the fact that you made a good gain. That he won a title in Dodger blue is irrelevant. You got long term assets for a guy who wasn’t sticking around long term and was only going to affect your draft position in an otherwise abysmal 2020

 

That's why some buy good companies and hold them forever. They pay solid dividends over the long haul. Betts represents a very solid dividend payer.

[oldtimer]

Were you shocked that Betts put the Dodgers over the top?

 

You gotta give to get.

 

Sure we had to give, so it was a win for both teams, and that is the way it should be. Betts put them over the top for the title and may contribute to them for years to come. How many is anyone's guess. They had to pay Betts big time on the kind of long term contract that a number of us on this site like to avoid. Price may be able to give them some value for the contract they took on, but probably not much.

 

We weren't going to sign Betts so instead we got Verdugo and Downs who may prove to be a MLer and we got a prospect plus we got out from under half if Price's contract. The trade has started us down the path of recovery, but there is a long way to go. The next activity should be expected early in December.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's why some buy good companies and hold them forever. They pay solid dividends over the long haul. Betts represents a very solid dividend payer.

 

Are you sure? The guy's weight is only listed at 180 pounds! His longterm production may only be limited to that of outfielders of similar poundage: Aaron 180, Yaz 175, Clemente 175 and Mays 170...

[Bellhorn04]

To me, that was a plus for us.

 

Others seem to think LA got the better on that one part of the deal.

 

I think that part of the trade was kind of a wash. I'm not thrilled about it and I'm not terribly disappointed about it.

 

If Price stays healthy and pitches well the next two years, it'll look pretty good for the Dodgers.

[notin]

I think that part of the trade was kind of a wash. I'm not thrilled about it and I'm not terribly disappointed about it.

 

If Price stays healthy and pitches well the next two years, it'll look pretty good for the Dodgers.

 

If Price had been able to stay healthy and pitch well for a two season stretch, he might never have been included in the first place...

[Bellhorn04]

If Price had been able to stay healthy and pitch well for a two season stretch, he might never have been included in the first place...

 

Unless those two seasons were 2016-2017, I suppose.

 

All things considered, shedding $15 million of his AAV the next two years is good for us.

 

For the Dodgers, if they get two good years, or even one very good one, it'll be a nice little bonus for them.

[notin]

Unless those two seasons were 2016-2017, I suppose.

 

All things considered, shedding $15 million of his AAV the next two years is good for us.

 

For the Dodgers, if they get two good years, or even one very good one, it'll be a nice little bonus for them.

 

So you think 2017, a season in which Price made 11 starts and threw 74 IP, should count for one in which he “stayed healthy and pitched well?”

 

2017 was the season that ruined his Red Sox contract..

[Bellhorn04]

So you think 2017, a season in which Price made 11 starts and threw 74 IP, should count for one in which he “stayed healthy and pitched well?”

 

2017 was the season that ruined his Red Sox contract..

 

No, that's not what I meant. I meant IF he was great in 2016 and 2017 and sucked after that, we would have been happy to get rid of him, too.

 

He was more like disappointing and tantalizing for 4 years.

[moonslav59]

Watching Betts with disdain is like making a good gain on a stock and then watching it rise after and kicking yourself. You gotta take the fact that you made a good gain. That he won a title in Dodger blue is irrelevant. You got long term assets for a guy who wasn’t sticking around long term and was only going to affect your draft position in an otherwise abysmal 2020

 

I'm not doubting we got a great haul, including dumping half Price's salary. I was responding to your opinion that it was "shocking."

 

The fact that the Dodgers got Betts and won a long-awaited ring is NOT irrelevant. It was the reason we got back what we got.

 

NOT SHOCKING!

 

We gave up greatness and got a great return.

[moonslav59]

I think that part of the trade was kind of a wash. I'm not thrilled about it and I'm not terribly disappointed about it.

 

If Price stays healthy and pitches well the next two years, it'll look pretty good for the Dodgers.

 

...and if we spend the $16M wisely, it could look good for both teams or just us, if Price struggles.

 

The way I see it, even if Price does well, he's very unlikely to do $32M/yr well and probably not even $16M/yr well.

[Larry Cook]

So how many bad contracts do we have left? Martinez and Pedroia?

[Bellhorn04]

So how many bad contracts do we have left? Martinez and Pedroia?

 

Payroll tax numbers:

 

Martinez - 2 more @ 22 AAV

Pedroia - 1 more @ 13.75 AAV

Price - 2 more @ 16 AAV

 

At least Martinez might help.

[moonslav59]

Payroll tax numbers:

 

Martinez - 2 more @ 22 AAV

Pedroia - 1 more @ 13.75 AAV

Price - 2 more @ 16 AAV

 

At least Martinez might help.

 

One might call Eovaldi's "bad," too.

 

2 more @ $17M

 

If Sale can't regain....

 

I shudder to even think about it.

[jad]

I'm not doubting we got a great haul, including dumping half Price's salary. I was responding to your opinion that it was "shocking."

 

The fact that the Dodgers got Betts and won a long-awaited ring is NOT irrelevant. It was the reason we got back what we got.

 

NOT SHOCKING!

 

We gave up greatness and got a great return.

 

"Great" return?? Depends how RS spend the money they saved. Or maybe finding a starting pitcher as good as Price at half his salary. Who would that be?

[cp176]

Are you sure? The guy's weight is only listed at 180 pounds! His longterm production may only be limited to that of outfielders of similar poundage: Aaron 180, Yaz 175, Clemente 175 and Mays 170...

 

hmm - I know right . His stock value is likely to split and double many times over the years to come.

[moonslav59]

"Great" return?? Depends how RS spend the money they saved. Or maybe finding a starting pitcher as good as Price at half his salary. Who would that be?

 

Fantastically great return, yes!

 

Price is not worth $16M/yr. (Morton just signed for $15M/1. That's just one guy.)

 

4 years of Verdugo.

 

5 years of Downs & Wong.