2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[moonslav59]

One or two years of Christian Vazquez probably does not fit within Pittsburgh's dreamed-for competitive window. The Pirates would likely target the top prospects in a pedestrian Red Sox farm system.

 

Vaz never was sent to Pitt. He was only involved in 3 way trades- like Vaz & Beni to Philly, Abel, Marchan & Ward to Pitt and Taillon & Stallings to BOS.... something like that.

 

I just did one a few mins ago:

 

BOS: Taillon, Stallings & Haseley

 

PHI: Vaz, Beni & Groome

 

PIT: Abel, Marchan & Ward

 

We get a good SP'er, CF'er and a catcher to replace Vaz.

 

[harmony]

Vaz never was sent to Pitt. He was only involved in 3 way trades- like Vaz & Beni to Philly, Abel, Marchan & Ward to Pitt and Taillon & Stallings to BOS.... something like that.

 

I just did one a few mins ago:

 

BOS: Taillon, Stallings & Haseley

 

PHI: Vaz, Beni & Groome

 

PIT: Abel, Marchan & Ward

 

We get a good SP'er, CF'er and a catcher to replace Vaz.

 

The Yankees reportedly are the frontrunners for Jameson Taillon:

 

[moonslav59]

The Yankees reportedly are the frontrunners for Jameson Taillon:

 

 

I heard that, and now that we have Richards, I doubt SP'er is high on our trade wish list.

 

I'm very high on Taillon. I'd give Casas or Downs & Bello for Tailon & Frazier. (Kike to CF)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I heard that, and now that we have Richards, I doubt SP'er is high on our trade wish list.

 

I'm very high on Taillon. I'd give Casas or Downs & Bello for Tailon & Frazier. (Kike to CF)

 

I wouldn't trade Casas -- not if the Sox are serious about propagating a new agrarian society. Casas could be the homegrown product with the most potential to become a longterm regular on a sustained contender: 20 HRs as a teenager, already 6'5", and chokes up for contact with two strikes -- more Joey Votto than Joey Gallo.

 

I'd even hesitate to swap Casas for Luis Castillo, an established ace; no way I deal him for just a pitcher with upside like Taillon, who's going to be 30 this year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sox don’t make that move since Taillon only has two years of control left.

 

Taillon, assuming he passes his physical and is totally healthy, gives the Yanks a 1-2 power pitching punch atop their rotation with Cole that will only get more powerful with Sevy returning. Kluber, if he can stay healthy, adds the crafty type element of movement and command and likely would slot into the rotation as the 2 before Sevy comes back and the 3 after just so you don’t have 3 straight guys chucking 100. I’d want to see the return, clearly. Pitt is apparently looking for upside over proximity, so that really makes the whole return impossible to predict. Yanks are flush with very high ceiling (and high bust potential) kids in the short season leagues. I doubt the Yanks move Dominguez in this deal, but Cabello, Rosario, Garcia or a host of high upside arms could be on the move.

 

Very intrigued here, but Taillon would be the punch needed for this rotation to firmly plant the Yanks as the AL favorite in 2021 and really sets us up for 22 as well. The Yanks have the upside arms in their pen or high minors to add depth too. When Sevy comes back, either JMont or Deivi would get bumped out of the rotation assuming everyone else is healthy. Consider that Schmidt and Garcia are top 100’s. You still have King, Nelson, Loaisiga, and Gil as upside arms (King less so on upside, but higher likelihood of sticking as a starter) with a host of A-AA arms behind them.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sox don’t make that move since Taillon only has two years of control left.

 

Taillon, assuming he passes his physical and is totally healthy, gives the Yanks a 1-2 power pitching punch atop their rotation with Cole that will only get more powerful with Sevy returning. Kluber, if he can stay healthy, adds the crafty type element of movement and command and likely would slot into the rotation as the 2 before Sevy comes back and the 3 after just so you don’t have 3 straight guys chucking 100. I’d want to see the return, clearly. Pitt is apparently looking for upside over proximity, so that really makes the whole return impossible to predict. Yanks are flush with very high ceiling (and high bust potential) kids in the short season leagues. I doubt the Yanks move Dominguez in this deal, but Cabello, Rosario, Garcia or a host of high upside arms could be on the move.

 

Very intrigued here, but Taillon would be the punch needed for this rotation to firmly plant the Yanks as the AL favorite in 2021 and really sets us up for 22 as well. The Yanks have the upside arms in their pen or high minors to add depth too. When Sevy comes back, either JMont or Deivi would get bumped out of the rotation assuming everyone else is healthy. Consider that Schmidt and Garcia are top 100’s. You still have King, Nelson, Loaisiga, and Gil as upside arms (King less so on upside, but higher likelihood of sticking as a starter) with a host of A-AA arms behind them.

 

You may be assuming a lot from a guy who has had only one really good season in the majors and didn't even pitch last year. Is Kluber that much of a question mark that Taillon -- another question mark -- automatically slots into the #2 spot in the rotation?

[jacksonianmarch]

Kluber is the ultimate question mark. Taillon is coming back from a predictable injury recovery. Kluber broke his pitching arm on a comebacker then tore his teres minor muscle in his upper back. Kluber is also 36.

 

If Taillon is healthy, as expected now 18 months post surgery, I’m fully confident he will be effective. Take a look at the peripherals on Taillon’s other seasons. His 17 was just as good as his 18, just a much higher BABIP and less innings.

 

The other thing you need to realize is that Taillon is following Cole’s path. The Pirates’ org philosophy for developing pitchers is to utilize sinkers down and get ground balls. It wasn’t until Cole went to Houston and adopted their philosophy of power 4 seamers up in the zone that he blossomed from powerful sinkerballer to elite arm. Yanks philosophy is similar to Houston’s in that respect. Taillon may blossom into the power pitcher he was supposed to be on draft day

[Bellhorn04]

The deferred money should not impact the luxury tax calculation.

 

It's the guaranteed money divided by the guaranteed years (adjusted later if options are exercised).

 

You're wrong about that, harm.

 

Chris Sale and Mookie Betts have reduced AAV's because of deferred money.

 

They do a present value calculation now.

[harmony]

You're wrong about that, harm.

 

Chris Sale and Mookie Betts have reduced AAV's because of deferred money.

 

They do a present value calculation now.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Because of the present-value calculation, the deferred money reportedly reduces Chris Sale's AAV about 15 percent (from $29 million to $25.6 million).

 

A 15 percent reduction would drop Kike Hernandez's AAV from $7 million to about $6 million.

[Nick]

Sale

Eovaldi

E Rod

Richards

Pivetta

Perez

Houck

Mata

Seabold

Groome

Song

D Hernandez or is he a closer material?

 

Is this our organizational starting pitching depth?

 

Saw somewhere our projected War for SP is now comparable to most other teams.....not sure what they project for Sale.

[mvp 78]

DHern is closer material. Not this year though.

[moonslav59]

DHern is closer material. Not this year though.

 

Agreed. Too many BBs.

 

His K/9 is near record breaking, and his H/9 is pretty good, too.

 

Career (only 39 IP)

 

16.3 K/9

 

7.4 H/9

 

7.9 BB/9

 

[Kimmi]

Sale

Eovaldi

E Rod

Richards

Pivetta

Perez

Houck

Mata

Seabold

Groome

Song

D Hernandez or is he a closer material?

 

Is this our organizational starting pitching depth?

 

Saw somewhere our projected War for SP is now comparable to most other teams.....not sure what they project for Sale.

 

I saw this tweet from Red Sox Stats:

 

How many starters in the AL East should you feel confident about?

 

 

 

An argument can be made that we're not far off from the other AL East teams. Of course, a lot depends on health.

 

Our depth guys should be much better than what we saw last year.

[moonslav59]

Brad Hand to Nats for $10.5M/1.

[Larry Cook]

Maybe we can move houck into the closer role this year.

 

7th inning - Hernandez

8th inning - Feldman

9th inning - Houck

 

 

Could be really good for a few years together after some growing pains!

[mvp 78]

Maybe we can move houck into the closer role this year.

 

7th inning - Hernandez

8th inning - Feldman

9th inning - Houck

 

 

Could be really good for a few years together after some growing pains!

 

Feldman? Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time.

[moonslav59]

Eovaldi might be the best candidate to move from the rotation to the closer slot, once Sale and ERod return.

[notin]

Eovaldi might be the best candidate to move from the rotation to the closer slot, once Sale and ERod return.

 

Or Richards...

[moonslav59]

Or Richards...

 

Good point.

 

Maybe by the time Sale (ERod) returns, the choice will be obvious.

[Bellhorn04]

Why do you guys think we have the luxury of converting starters to closers? We don't have enough starters.

[Noles_1335]

Maybe we can have Richards close.....

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Maybe we can have Richards close.....

 

Keith? Coming off the DL, good candidate for a bounce-back flyer. Red Sox reportedly interested.

[moonslav59]

Why do you guys think we have the luxury of converting starters to closers? We don't have enough starters.

 

It's only if we ever reach a time period where everyone is healthy (fat chance) and Houck has spent his 2 months in the minors to extend his years of team control.

 

Sale

ERod

Richards

Eovaldi

Perez

Pivetta

Houck

(Mata/Seabold/Mazza)

 

If 6 of the top 7 are healthy and pitching well (fat chance), one could be moved to the closer role.

 

(We could also sign someone like Porcello.)

[Noles_1335]

So we give an injury prone Richards 10 Mil and pass on getting an established closer in Hand that went for 10.5.... how many of us are really starting to doubt the decisions made by Bloom. Who are we signing next Kennedy, Hamels, Wade Davis.... ?????

[notin]

Why do you guys think we have the luxury of converting starters to closers? We don't have enough starters.

 

And the reason we do not have enough starters is two of our two 5 have shown the inability to pitch a full season these past few years. So why are we forcing them into roles where they have to?

[Nick]

So we give an injury prone Richards 10 Mil and pass on getting an established closer in Hand that went for 10.5.... how many of us are really starting to doubt the decisions made by Bloom. Who are we signing next Kennedy, Hamels, Wade Davis.... ?????

 

Bloom has never said he signed Richards for $10M to close. Posters make some comments about long shot possibility of Richards becoming a closer at some point and then we blame Bloom for spending $10M for a closer?

[harmony]

So we give an injury prone Richards 10 Mil and pass on getting an established closer in Hand that went for 10.5.... how many of us are really starting to doubt the decisions made by Bloom. Who are we signing next Kennedy, Hamels, Wade Davis.... ?????

Steamer and ZiPS project 2021 WAR of 1.5 and 1.1 for Garrett Richards and 0.4 and 0.8 for Brad Hand.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/garrett-richards/9784/stats?position=P

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/brad-hand/9111/stats?position=P

[moonslav59]

So we give an injury prone Richards 10 Mil and pass on getting an established closer in Hand that went for 10.5.... how many of us are really starting to doubt the decisions made by Bloom. Who are we signing next Kennedy, Hamels, Wade Davis.... ?????

 

Not me at all.

 

I'd have preferred others, but my choice of Odorizzi could turn out to be a bad one.

 

I like Kike, Renfroe and Richards, and it seems like the idea that bargain deals were available was just a rumor.

 

I don't think Bloom is done, either. We will like trade Beni and add a closer and or CF'er.

[mvp 78]

Not me at all.

 

I'd have preferred others, but my choice of Odorizzi could turn out to be a bad one.

 

I like Kike, Renfroe and Richards, and it seems like the idea that bargain deals were available was just a little collusion.

 

I don't think Bloom is done, either. We will like trade Beni and add a closer and or CF'er.

 

Beni isn't being traded. It only made sense if they were signing a big bat for LF. They don't have enough room to sign Ozuna.

 

They need a closer and a CFer still.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not me at all.

 

I'd have preferred others, but my choice of Odorizzi could turn out to be a bad one.

 

I like Kike, Renfroe and Richards, and it seems like the idea that bargain deals were available was just a rumor.

 

I don't think Bloom is done, either. We will like trade Beni and add a closer and or CF'er.

 

People who are considering the 2021 sox a finished product are going to be mistaken at any point this year. You dont have to like it, but this is a rebuilding team. The rebuild isnt going to be perfect along the way. Let's be honest, the sox are a distant fourth in the division in talent. They're gonna slow play Sale, ERod will take some time to return to his prior conditioning. Richards will be needed to be a horse, something he hasnt done in awhile, not impossible for him, but hasnt done it in awhile. Eovaldi will need to be healthy, which he has never shown he can do. Perez is a 5th starter punt. Pivetta is a failed prospect with potential, but zero expectations. The pen has a few guys with talent, but on the whole it is a s***** pen. The lineup has a some question marks and a gaping hole in CF that may include LF if Beni is moved. It isn't a good team. Could it surprise and be a playoff contender, maybe, but in a division where they are clearly 4th and with the play being so centered around your division, there is a good chance this team wins 75 games if they are lucky and is out of it early.