2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

You'll be made to pay for continued remarks like these, in some fashion.

 

I'm sure he'll post his way through it.

[mvp 78]

I have been dead on the past 5 years or so. Baseball is clearly important to me and I am very excited for the Yanks, but so much of my life has changed that I can get a little bit past the pinstriped glasses and be a realist to a degree (fans are always at least a tick away from reality). I predicted your cliff. I am predicting the rebuild. And I will say that if Henry gives Bloom enough time, the rebuild will lead to a sustained period of excellence. If Henry tries to force it, you'll be relegated to the middle, which is death for team building long term

 

LOL no.

[jacksonianmarch]

LOL no.

 

Do you need me to dig up the cliff thread again? Individual players, maybe not. But team performance? Especially on the sox end? Dead on

[notin]

I have been dead on the past 5 years or so. Baseball is clearly important to me and I am very excited for the Yanks, but so much of my life has changed that I can get a little bit past the pinstriped glasses and be a realist to a degree (fans are always at least a tick away from reality). I predicted your cliff. I am predicting the rebuild. And I will say that if Henry gives Bloom enough time, the rebuild will lead to a sustained period of excellence. If Henry tries to force it, you'll be relegated to the middle, which is death for team building long term

 

Well, you did say the Sox were not a playoff team in 2018...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There are contradictions: some posters remind us that Tampa isn't Boston, and the Red Sox will never be the Rays. But then there also are a lot of assumptions that Bloom was hired to replenish the farm, find bargain gems and trade veterans for prospect value... "just like he did in Tampa".

 

Then again, though he was a big part of the Rays' front office, Bloom was never in charge like he is now in Boston. And as for spending or not spending, he has maintained since he got here there are "no mandates". Employees and fans both talk about a goal of building and watching a franchise become a sustained contender... but who wouldn't want that?

 

Really good teams need really good players -- whether developed or acquired -- but should projected records prevent either from happening? Maybe we'll never know who Bloom really is as a Commanding Officer until/if his club starts to win, and he decides whether to keep a star core together or turn them over on a revolving roster.

[Bellhorn04]

If we trade Beni for low cost players, we can maybe add a CF'er & pitcher w/o going over.

 

Beni is a low cost player IMO, at $5 mill AAV. I hope we keep him.

[mvp 78]

Do you need me to dig up the cliff thread again? Individual players, maybe not. But team performance? Especially on the sox end? Dead on

 

Your thoughts on the 2016 team:

 

"82 without another acquisition. Add a legit #2 for half a season or more and I'll got 86-88"

 

Your thoughts on the 2018 team:

 

"With two wild cards up for grabs, they shouldn't. You still have an avenue to the postseason!"

[mvp 78]

Beni is a low cost player IMO, at $5 mill AAV. I hope we keep him.

 

They aren't going to get anything of value except tax relief if they deal him. Makes little sense to move him unless you just pine for the thickness of Henry's wallet.

[Bellhorn04]

Your thoughts on the 2016 team:

 

"82 without another acquisition. Add a legit #2 for half a season or more and I'll got 86-88"

 

Your thoughts on the 2018 team:

 

"With two wild cards up for grabs, they shouldn't. You still have an avenue to the postseason!"

 

Are you saying JM didn't have us winning the division from 2016 to 2018?

[Bellhorn04]

They aren't going to get anything of value except tax relief if they deal him. Makes little sense to move him unless you just pine for the thickness of Henry's wallet.

 

Nicely put.

[notin]

They aren't going to get anything of value except tax relief if they deal him. Makes little sense to move him unless you just pine for the thickness of Henry's wallet.

 

If anything of actual value was available for Benintendi, he would have been dealt for it. There is a reason there is no buzz about this anymore when, a week a go, a deal was reportedly "imminent"...

[mvp 78]

Are you saying JM didn't have us winning the division from 2016 to 2018?

 

Seems like it.

[moonslav59]

Do you need me to dig up the cliff thread again? Individual players, maybe not. But team performance? Especially on the sox end? Dead on

 

A team that spends $200M+ does not take 4-5 years to rebuild. Sure, it may end up taking that long, but it is not a sure thing.

 

A team that spends $200M+ and has some high draft picks and a decent young core of players under team control for 3+ years should NOT take more than 1-2 years to rebuild. We also have some contracts coming off the books that do not really open any gaping holes, except if Bogey opts out (and ERod, if he does well in 2021).

 

Lux Tax Numbers Off the Books:

 

after 2021:

$14M Pedey

$10M Richards (option for 1 more)

$9M Ottavino

$8M ERod

$5M Barnes

$5M Perez (option for 1 more)

 

after 2022:

$22M JD

$22M Bogey opt out

$17M Eovaldi

$7M E Hernandez

$7M Beni

$5M Vaz

 

Only a couple guys, here, may be hard to replace for the money they cost.

 

Core Foundation and Years of Team Control:

 

3 Years

Devers

 

4 Years

Verdugo

Sale (option for 5th yr)

Pivetta

Munoz

 

5+ Years

D Hern

Dalbec

Houck

 

Possible Impact Prospects (age):

Casas 21

Downs 22

Mata 22

Duran 24

Jimenez 20

Seabold 25

Song 23

 

Longer shots:

Ward 24, Groome 22, Rosario 21, Potts 22, Murphy 22, Wong 24, Bello 21, Wallace 22, Arauz 22, Bazardo 25, Feltman 23, Whitlock 24

 

Far Away:

Ramirez 19, Yorke 18, Bonaci 18, Jordan 18, Lugo 19

 

[mvp 78]

Nicely put.

 

He shouldn't go over by 20-30M every year because it's bad business. He should go over by that some years. Since they already reset last year, it makes little sense to stay under this year. They can always reset later on. Just don't sign extensions to injured pitchers (Eovaldi, Sale).

[moonslav59]

Beni is a low cost player IMO, at $5 mill AAV. I hope we keep him.

 

I do, too.

 

Trading at a low stock price is bad business.

 

The reasoning for trading him is two-fold:

 

1) to create budget space

2) We have 2 LF'ers and no real CF'er, unless we take E Hernandez away from 2B, which creates a need there.

 

IF trading Beni allows us to sign Pillar or JBJ, our OF will improve at the same time as our farm, assuming we get good prospects for Beni.

 

Or, we trade Beni for a low cost CF'er/2Bman or RP'er and basically do the same thing.

 

I do not want to see this:

 

LF Beni

CF Verdugo

RF Renfroe

 

 

As our budget stands now, we can sign Pillar, which make our OF look fine, as Beni & Renfroe can platoon in LF and act as 4th OF'er, too, but then we are basically saying no to anymore pen additions that cost money.

[oldtimer]

They aren't going to get anything of value except tax relief if they deal him. Makes little sense to move him unless you just pine for the thickness of Henry's wallet.

 

If you believe Beni to be not much more than an average player and you can get prospects plus clear $5 mil that could be applied to a better than average outfielder, why not go in that direction? Another obvious thought is the Sox management may believe the farm now holds a prospect who can fill the position and the goal should always be to bring up ML ready players.

[notin]

If you believe Beni to be not much more than an average player and you can get prospects plus clear $5 mil that could be applied to a better than average outfielder, why not go in that direction? Another obvious thought is the Sox management may believe the farm now holds a prospect who can fill the position and the goal should always be to bring up ML ready players.

 

Oh I am not so sure they feel that way about our OF prospects.

 

Has the Sox farm graduated any OF from the farm since Benintendi? On any team in MLB?

[moonslav59]

Oh I am not so sure they feel that way about our OF prospects.

 

Has the Sox farm graduated any OF from the farm since Benintendi? On any team in MLB?

 

Margot came up the same year Beni did.

 

I'd trade Beni for Margot in a flash.

[notin]

Margot came up the same year Beni did.

 

I'd trade Beni for Margot in a flash.

 

Margot is a good one. Forgot about him. but OF depth is not a strongsuit of the Sox farm. We have Jarren Duran, who struggled in AA but does seem to impress in these MiLB-equivalent short seasons like the AFL and the one in Puerto Rico. And beyond him, the next two best OF prospects are two guys who play the the same position (CF). And then we have Nick Decker, who seems like he has been in A ball forever. But I guess he is still only 21. After that, probably nothing more than a bunch of longshots..

[mvp 78]

If you believe Beni to be not much more than an average player and you can get prospects plus clear $5 mil that could be applied to a better than average outfielder, why not go in that direction? Another obvious thought is the Sox management may believe the farm now holds a prospect who can fill the position and the goal should always be to bring up ML ready players.

 

The prospects they get will be low value prospects. Beni has a better chance of turning things around than bringing back a good prospect.

[notin]

The prospects they get will be low value prospects. Beni has a better chance of turning things around than bringing back a good prospect.

 

And certainly a better chance than even a "good prospect" turning into what Beni used to be.

 

The Sox explored dealing Benintendi, but it turned out to be nothing more than due diligence. The league was not interested. and now it's Benintendi's job to make them all look silly for it...

[moonslav59]

The prospects they get will be low value prospects. Beni has a better chance of turning things around than bringing back a good prospect.

 

I totally agree, and while I have not been Beni's biggest fan, the guy can hit. He's also not bad on D, in LF ONLY.

 

Now, if he hits well in 2021, and we don't look like we are going anywhere, this year, it may make more sense to trade him at the deadline and get more than just s0-so prospects.

 

[moonslav59]

And certainly a better chance than even a "good prospect" turning into what Beni used to be.

 

The Sox explored dealing Benintendi, but it turned out to be nothing more than due diligence. The league was not interested. and now it's Benintendi's job to make them all look silly for it...

 

We don't know if the league was disinterested. Some teams might be waiting out on Ozuna, JBJ or someone else, and Beni is their fall back choice.

[mvp 78]

We don't know if the league was disinterested. Some teams might be waiting out on Ozuna, JBJ or someone else, and Beni is their fall back choice.

 

Doesn't seem likely.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I totally agree, and while I have not been Beni's biggest fan, the guy can hit. He's also not bad on D, in LF ONLY.

 

Now, if he hits well in 2021, and we don't look like we are going anywhere, this year, it may make more sense to trade him at the deadline and get more than just s0-so prospects.

 

 

There's always a lot of talksox talk about trading just about any Sox at the deadline (granted, the chorus is led by our resident Bronx cheerleader, who wants always wants the Sox to deal away quality so they'll remain a non-factor in flux).

 

Have to wonder if some of these Bosox actually turn it around -- and Bloom moves them for prospects -- how that will go over with players' Manager Cora...

[Bellhorn04]

There's always a lot of talksox talk about trading just about any Sox at the deadline (granted, the chorus is led by our resident Bronx cheerleader, who wants always wants the Sox to deal away quality so they'll remain a non-factor in flux).

 

Have to wonder if some of these Bosox actually turn it around -- and Bloom moves them for prospects -- how that will go over with players' Manager Cora...

 

It's standard procedure to move guys at the deadline when:

 

a) the team is out of playoff contention

the player's contract is expiring

 

You'll never be criticized for moving guys under those conditions.

[moonslav59]

Doesn't seem likely.

 

Why not?

 

We are not the only team with several holes to fill and several options still out there.

 

(I hope we don't trade him, unless the return looks like a clear win- doubtful.)

[notin]

There's always a lot of talksox talk about trading just about any Sox at the deadline (granted, the chorus is led by our resident Bronx cheerleader, who wants always wants the Sox to deal away quality so they'll remain a non-factor in flux).

 

Have to wonder if some of these Bosox actually turn it around -- and Bloom moves them for prospects -- how that will go over with players' Manager Cora...

 

The Sox are positioned right now that could make some sort of "make or break" move to improve the 2021 season and try for post-season contention. And if they are out of it at the deadline, they have enough short term deals that can still do a mini fire sale and get some prospects/young major leaguers and be poised for 2022.

 

Right now, they have the following players in their final year aka deadline trade bait: Rodriguez, Barnes, Ottavino, and Richards And then they have the additional year for Benintendi, Andriese, Eovaldi and Plawecki. Even in the biggest deadline fire sales, how many deals an one team make? If they only move the one year players, that's four trades at one deadline, which is an awful lot for any team to make in that time frame anyway.

[notin]

We don't know if the league was disinterested. Some teams might be waiting out on Ozuna, JBJ or someone else, and Beni is their fall back choice.

 

While possible, as long as those players are out there, no one wants Benintendi.

 

Although Benintendi seems like an odd fallback for a team that misses out on JBJ...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox are positioned right now that could make some sort of "make or break" move to improve the 2021 season and try for post-season contention. And if they are out of it at the deadline, they have enough short term deals that can still do a mini fire sale and get some prospects/young major leaguers and be poised for 2022.

 

Right now, they have the following players in their final year aka deadline trade bait: Rodriguez, Barnes, Ottavino, and Richards And then they have the additional year for Benintendi, Andriese, Eovaldi and Plawecki. Even in the biggest deadline fire sales, how many deals an one team make? If they only move the one year players, that's four trades at one deadline, which is an awful lot for any team to make in that time frame anyway.

 

Sure, but if one of those guys breaks out and becomes an All-Star, there has to be consideration for extending and keeping him as a core player going forward.