Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[notin]

If " building up the correct way " means cutting costs and depending on the farm to re-stock your team every year , then it doesn't happen very often . Who has been successful and been able to " sustain it " for any length of time in MLB with that system?

 

The Dodgers and the Rays.

 

How did they do this year?

[notin]

Spending that kind of dough does show a commitment to winning . You can't dispute that.

 

You do realize the Red Sox had one of the highest payrolls in MLB this year, right? Some sources have them third. Some fourth. All of them say among the highest.

 

So do they have a commitment to winning or not?

[notin]

We also hear more music coming from LA. The first three batters in the lineup are classic rockers: Betts, Seager, Turner. That gives the Dodgers the Allman Brothers, Silver Bullet Band, and the Queen of Rock's estranged...

 

What does Tampa have besides a dance song voted the #1 Greatest One-Hit Wonder of All-Time: Arozarena!

 

Do NOT forget about that Phil Collins overplayed classic Tsut-tsut-tsugio!

[moonslav59]

Yeah, the RS commitment to winning is SO much stronger than the Dodgers'. (Who could ever forget the celebratory post by the ecstatic RS management the day they got under the luxury tax! Now THAT'S baseball!)

 

I remember the Dodgers reset their tax not too long ago- not long enough for Betts to not know it..

 

(BTW, they have paid less than half the luxury tax paid by the Yanks since 2002, yet much more than the Sox.)

[dgalehouse]

The Dodgers and the Rays.

 

How did they do this year?

 

This year? We are talking about sustainable. The Dodgers have been one of the biggest spenders in MLB for a long time. The Rays have only two pennants and zero championships in their history. They have stunk many seasons.

[Jasonbay44]

Watching Betts be an absolute game changer in the playoffs so far has been hard to watch. He was my favorite player and I can't help but still root for him. I really wish we didn't have to trade him.

[Bellhorn04]

You do realize the Red Sox had one of the highest payrolls in MLB this year, right? Some sources have them third. Some fourth. All of them say among the highest.

 

So do they have a commitment to winning or not?

 

The Red Sox have been in the top 4 in MLB payrolls every year since Henry bought the team.

 

That's why I refuse to criticize them about this.

[moonslav59]

2001: Nyy, bos, la

2002: Nyy, bos, 5lad

2003: Nyy, 4lad, 6bos

2004: Nyy, bos, 7lad

2005: Nyy, bos, 5lad

2006: Nyy, bos, lad

2007: Nyy, bos, 6lad

2008: Nyy, 4bos, 7lad

2009: Nyy, 4bos, 9lad

 

2010: Nyy, bos, 12lad

2011: Nyy, 3bos, 12lad

2012: Nyy, 3bos, 12lad

2013: Nyy, lad, 4bos

2014: Lad, nyy, 4bos

2015: Lad, nyy, bos

2016: Lad, nyy, bos

2017: Lad, nyy, bos

2018: Bos, 3lad, 7nyy

2019: Bos, 3nyy, 4lad

2020: Nyy, lads, bos

Edited October 22, 2020 by moonslav59

[dgalehouse]

You do realize the Red Sox had one of the highest payrolls in MLB this year, right? Some sources have them third. Some fourth. All of them say among the highest.

 

So do they have a commitment to winning or not?

 

Don't tell me. Go tell Mookie.

[Donnie Sadler was short]

Do you guys REALLY think he was going to re-sign with Boston? Please.

[Bellhorn04]

Do you guys REALLY think he was going to re-sign with Boston? Please.

 

I think he would have signed an extension for $400 million, but no less.

[notin]

Don't tell me. Go tell Mookie.

 

Or tell the guy who spent Mookie’s money on lesser players...

[notin]

The Red Sox have been in the top 4 in MLB payrolls every year since Henry bought the team.

 

That's why I refuse to criticize them about this.

 

I know. And yet some people still call him cheap....

[moonslav59]

I think he would have signed an extension for $400 million, but no less.

 

Had he stayed here and not signed an extension, what would be the highest bid, this winter? $375/12?

[moonslav59]

I know. And yet some people still call him cheap....

 

Because he's made of gold, they think he should spend like a maniac.

[Bellhorn04]

Had he stayed here and not signed an extension, what would be the highest bid, this winter? $375/12?

 

Hard to say now because of the pandemic factor.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Do you guys REALLY think he was going to re-sign with Boston? Please.

 

This guy says no:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/did-red-sox-make-similar-offer-mookie-betts-and-he-simply-wanted-out

 

... but according to his source, Boston is ok with this guy:

 

https://www.espn.com/boston/

 

Questions for the board: which is worse -- the perception that a team is too cheap to sign it's best player or the perception that a team is undesirable to play for? And to whom are the answers most damaging -- fans or future free agents?

[oldtimer]

This guy says no:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/did-red-sox-make-similar-offer-mookie-betts-and-he-simply-wanted-out

 

... but according to his source, Boston is ok with this guy:

 

https://www.espn.com/boston/

 

Questions for the board: which is worse -- the perception that a team is too cheap to sign it's best player or the perception that a team is undesirable to play for? And to whom are the answers most damaging -- fans or future free agents?

 

Another question to ask is what if every player looked for whatever the market would bear regardless of the impact on the long term competitiveness of the team? The assumption is there is only so much available in the pot of gold and the question is how is it shared?

[moonslav59]

Hard to say now because of the pandemic factor.

 

Agreed, and many think he took a discount due to COVID.

 

My point was that his $400M position was pre-COVID, so it's hard to know what might have happened.

[notin]

This guy says no:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/did-red-sox-make-similar-offer-mookie-betts-and-he-simply-wanted-out

 

... but according to his source, Boston is ok with this guy:

 

https://www.espn.com/boston/

 

Questions for the board: which is worse -- the perception that a team is too cheap to sign it's best player or the perception that a team is undesirable to play for? And to whom are the answers most damaging -- fans or future free agents?

 

 

Undesirable to play for is worse. We’ve heard Torii Hunter and Adam Jones say exactly that about Boston, verifying what we all learned from Carl Crawford. And maybe now Mookie?

 

No one thinks the Sox are too cheap except Sox fans who apparently get upset that a team can be assembled and Henry still has money left over.

 

 

I would think an undesirable team would be a bigger deal to the players, but cheap reputations are probably more common among fans. Like I said, Henry is one of the biggest spending team owners in all of professional sports and has been for well over a decade. But somehow at this stage he is STILL being accused of being cheap...

[moonslav59]

Henry has been the savior to all long-suffering Sox fans.

 

He could cut spending to $120M for a few years, and I'd till be eternally grateful he became our owner.

[Bellhorn04]

Undesirable to play for is worse. We’ve heard Torii Hunter and Adam Jones say exactly that about Boston, verifying what we all learned from Carl Crawford. And maybe now Mookie?

 

The facts do not support the premise, of course. David Price is the most recent example of a player who is not only African-American, but had some prior issues with the Red Sox, David Ortiz at least, and wasn't exactly a favorite of Boston fans.

 

But $217 million persuaded him to play in Boston for 7 years.

 

He also declined an opportunity to opt out. And yes, I realize that decision was influenced by the fact that he wouldn't have gotten as much on the market. But that's the whole point. The money was enough to keep him in Boston.

 

Price is not all about the money, either, as he proved by opting out of the 2020 season because of COVID concerns.

[notin]

The facts do not support the premise, of course. David Price is the most recent example of a player who is not only African-American, but had some prior issues with the Red Sox, David Ortiz at least, and wasn't exactly a favorite of Boston fans.

 

But $217 million persuaded him to play in Boston for 7 years.

 

He also declined an opportunity to opt out. And yes, I realize that decision was influenced by the fact that he wouldn't have gotten as much on the market. But that's the whole point. The money was enough to keep him in Boston.

 

Price is not all about the money, either, as he proved by opting out of the 2020 season because of COVID concerns.

 

So you’re saying that because Price took a bit load of cash, it dismisses Torii Hunter’s claim?

 

I’ve been hearing these types of things about Boston since former Celtics’ guard Dee Brown got harassed by the police for house shopping in Wellesley...

[moonslav59]

So you’re saying that because Price took a bit load of cash, it dismisses Torii Hunter’s claim?

 

I’ve been hearing these types of things about Boston since former Celtics’ guard Dee Brown got harassed by the police for house shopping in Wellesley...

 

Not liking the city is a little different than not liking the team. Yes, it can still be a factor on the choices made by players, but this team has come a long way since the days of Yawkey and prior owner-management dynamics.

[Bellhorn04]

So you’re saying that because Price took a bit load of cash, it dismisses Torii Hunter’s claim?

 

No, it doesn't dismiss that.

 

But it clearly contradicts the idea that it's so bad that guys will not play in Boston even if Boston offers the most money.

[mvp 78]

This guy says no:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/did-red-sox-make-similar-offer-mookie-betts-and-he-simply-wanted-out

 

... but according to his source, Boston is ok with this guy:

 

https://www.espn.com/boston/

 

Questions for the board: which is worse -- the perception that a team is too cheap to sign it's best player or the perception that a team is undesirable to play for? And to whom are the answers most damaging -- fans or future free agents?

 

Rule 1: Don't believe Felger

Rule 2: See rule 1

[Bellhorn04]

If we want to go all anecdotal on Mookie, the one that stings a bit, and came from Mookie himself, is that when the Red Sox first offered him an extension, it was for $200 million - for 8 years I believe - he says he was very close to taking it, but his mother gave him a little talk about not acting hastily and not acting on emotion, or words to that effect.

[jad]

This guy says no:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/did-red-sox-make-similar-offer-mookie-betts-and-he-simply-wanted-out

 

... but according to his source, Boston is ok with this guy:

 

https://www.espn.com/boston/

 

Questions for the board: which is worse -- the perception that a team is too cheap to sign it's best player or the perception that a team is undesirable to play for? And to whom are the answers most damaging -- fans or future free agents?

 

I'm not sure I think JH is too cheap to sign MB. To me, it's an example of owner/GM/management all wanting to put their 'stamp' on a team (human nature--same with the 'new guy' your company just hired). And they think more about that than the results. So Bloom wants primarily to make a big splash, and what better way to do that than to do what he did? As to question 2-- I'm sure this damages fan relations (but fans have short memories, and if you live in NE, as most of us do, you're going to remain a fan regardless); players? I wouldn't know. But they'll probably go where the money is best (even though, for young athletes, I can's see how Boston can compete with LA or Miami).

[notin]

I'm not sure I think JH is too cheap to sign MB. To me, it's an example of owner/GM/management all wanting to put their 'stamp' on a team (human nature--same with the 'new guy' your company just hired). And they think more about that than the results. So Bloom wants primarily to make a big splash, and what better way to do that than to do what he did? As to question 2-- I'm sure this damages fan relations (but fans have short memories, and if you live in NE, as most of us do, you're going to remain a fan regardless); players? I wouldn't know. But they'll probably go where the money is best (even though, for young athletes, I can's see how Boston can compete with LA or Miami).

 

Well, Boston cannot compete with Miami or San Diego or LA in a lot of ways as a city. Except that the Sox do certainly pay a lot more for athletes....

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure I think JH is too cheap to sign MB. To me, it's an example of owner/GM/management all wanting to put their 'stamp' on a team (human nature--same with the 'new guy' your company just hired). And they think more about that than the results. So Bloom wants primarily to make a big splash, and what better way to do that than to do what he did? As to question 2-- I'm sure this damages fan relations (but fans have short memories, and if you live in NE, as most of us do, you're going to remain a fan regardless); players? I wouldn't know. But they'll probably go where the money is best (even though, for young athletes, I can's see how Boston can compete with LA or Miami).

 

Not signing and then trading MB certainly had a shock effect, but I think signing him to $375M/12 would have been a huge "splash."