Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

[Bellhorn04]

Did you hear or read the part about how CC picks a player on the opposing team to hate (for no reason) so that he can build up his hatred/intensity against that team? That's his explanation for why he hated JBJ. I guess doofus-ness just runs rampant on that team.

 

It really worked well for CC in Game 4 of the 2018 ALDS.

 

CC's postseason record against the Red Sox was 0-3, with a monstrous ERA. We also destroyed him in Game 1 and pivotal Game 5 of the 2007 ALCS.

 

We owned his a$$ in other words.

[Kimmi]

It really worked well for CC in Game 4 of the 2018 ALDS.

 

CC's postseason record against the Red Sox was 0-3, with a monstrous ERA. We also destroyed him in Game 1 and pivotal Game 5 of the 2007 ALCS.

 

We owned his a$$ in other words.

 

Nice. I guess fake, created hate doesn't serve the purpose. LOL

 

CC is a competitor, but he also has a tendency to be whiny. Didn't he complain about the Sox bunting against him with his bum knee? He's also one who was outspoken about how the Yankees were cheated out of the World Series because of the Astros' sign stealing. Where is that sealed letter that was supposed to be unsealed?

[Bellhorn04]

One of the craziest splits ever: only 63 PA's, but Mookie hit only .185/..302/.204 against lefties this year.

 

Last night he went 0 for 4, all against lefties.

[mvp 78]

One of the craziest splits ever: only 63 PA's, but Mookie hit only .185/..302/.204 against lefties this year.

 

Last night he went 0 for 4, all against lefties.

 

Need to get him away from Joc Pederson.

[jad]

Nice. I guess fake, created hate doesn't serve the purpose. LOL

 

CC is a competitor, but he also has a tendency to be whiny. Didn't he complain about the Sox bunting against him with his bum knee? He's also one who was outspoken about how the Yankees were cheated out of the World Series because of the Astros' sign stealing. Where is that sealed letter that was supposed to be unsealed?

 

But I believe two years ago, he also plunked a guy in retaliation, even though getting tossed made him ineligible for a bonus. (As I recall, the Yanks paid him anyway). I give him a pass on other matters for that.

[oldtimer]

[QU

OTE=Bellhorn04;1356558]One of the craziest splits ever: only 63 PA's, but Mookie hit only .185/..302/.204 against lefties this year.

Last night he went 0 for 4, all against lefties.

 

The Dodgers better be careful The Braves are similar to the Rays. Good pitching, excellent defense and better hitting than the Rays. The injury to Darneau hurt last but the Dodgers may be going home this round anyway. Mookie may not be enough to make the Dodgers a wnner.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

[QU

Mookie may not be enough to make the Dodgers a wnner.

 

One thing I finally do agree on is that Mookie isn't Mike Trout, either; Betts is more of a leader. Dodgers have been praising him since the first day of Spring Training and throughout the season for leading by words, leading by example, and spending time with teammates before and after games to help them improve (I honestly don't know if Trout is that kind of a guy, but I haven't seen or heard many quotes about him from Angels through the years...).

 

In every way possible this season, Mookie has been the cornerstone ballplayer worthy of longterm investment as a legitimate face of the franchise. We should recall many of those similar qualities from Dustin Pedroia... except for the odd Machado contrast: Pedey apologizing for pitchers sticking up for him against a guy who ended his career, vs. Mookie yelling across the diamond at Manny to "go away" (and take his poor sportsmanship with him).

[mvp 78]

One thing I finally do agree on is that Mookie isn't Mike Trout, either; Betts is more of a leader. Dodgers have been praising him since the first day of Spring Training and throughout the season for leading by words, leading by example, and spending time with teammates before and after games to help them improve (I honestly don't know if Trout is that kind of a guy, but I haven't seen or heard many quotes about him from Angels through the years...).

 

In every way possible this season, Mookie has been the cornerstone ballplayer worthy of longterm investment as a legitimate face of the franchise. We should recall many of those similar qualities from Dustin Pedroia... except for the odd Machado contrast: Pedey apologizing for pitchers sticking up for him against a guy who ended his career, vs. Mookie yelling across the diamond at Manny to "go away" (and take his poor sportsmanship with him).

 

Case closed!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Case closed!

 

Or reopened: has anyone ever seen or heard the kinds of comments from teammates about Mike Trout that have been lavished on Mookie Betts this summer?

 

In Trout's defense, I've heard a lot of "no rings" snarks for at least the past few years. And yet, Trout has never played on an MLB club with a Kershaw, Beuhler, or maybe not even a Dustin May.

[Bellhorn04]

The Dodgers are kind of building Mookie up as the big difference-maker on this year's team.

 

Will the final result be different?

[Kimmi]

But I believe two years ago, he also plunked a guy in retaliation, even though getting tossed made him ineligible for a bonus. (As I recall, the Yanks paid him anyway). I give him a pass on other matters for that.

 

I vaguely remember that. Good for him. Respect level just went up a notch.

[Kimmi]

The Dodgers are kind of building Mookie up as the big difference-maker on this year's team.

 

Will the final result be different?

 

Whether he is the difference maker or not, which I don't think he is, if the Dodgers win the WS this year, of course it's all going to point to Mookie as the guy who put them over the top.

 

I just don't buy into the idea that one guy can be the difference maker in the playoffs. When a team repeatedly makes the playoffs but can't win the ultimate prize, that has more to do with the randomness factor than whether the team is good enough.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Whether he is the difference maker or not, which I don't think he is, if the Dodgers win the WS this year, of course it's all going to point to Mookie as the guy who put them over the top.

 

I just don't buy into the idea that one guy can be the difference maker in the playoffs. When a team repeatedly makes the playoffs but can't win the ultimate prize, that has more to do with the randomness factor than whether the team is good enough.

 

One guy can make the difference, but it's usually a pitcher; I'm thinking 2007 Josh Beckett, 4-0 in the postseason, or 1988 Hershiser: Cy Young Award, NLCS MVP, WS MVP. Once in awhile there's a '79 Willie Stargell: regular season MVP, NLCS MVP, WS MVP.

[oldtimer]

Whether he is the difference maker or not, which I don't think he is, if the Dodgers win the WS this year, of course it's all going to point to Mookie as the guy who put them over the top.

 

I just don't buy into the idea that one guy can be the difference maker in the playoffs. When a team repeatedly makes the playoffs but can't win the ultimate prize, that has more to do with the randomness factor than whether the team is good enough.

What I see with the Dodgers is a lot of guys with long looping swings and only a couple who try to hit the opposite way and move the runner. That approach might work against average pitching, but both Atlanta and the Rays have much better than average pitching and like the Yankees with hitters with similar approaches, the Dodgers are finding the going hard. When we go after players I hope that they look for guys who make hard contact, have speed and have low strikeout rates Home runs are nice, but are not the whole story.

[notin]

One guy can make the difference, but it's usually a pitcher; I'm thinking 2007 Josh Beckett, 4-0 in the postseason, or 1988 Hershiser: Cy Young Award, NLCS MVP, WS MVP. Once in awhile there's a '79 Willie Stargell: regular season MVP, NLCS MVP, WS MVP.

 

They seem to favor giving the short series awards to pitchers. To me, the most glaring question mark was the 1990 World Series MVP Jose Rijo.

 

Now Rijo was great in that series (2-0, 0.59 in 15 IP). But Billy Hatcher (.750/.800/1.250 for a 2.050 OPS) had one of the best post-season series ever for a hitter and was instrumental in all 4 games. The guy got on base EIGHTY PERCENT OF THE TIME! That vaunted A's pitching staff literally could not get him out. That's flat out ridiculous and should not have been ignored like it was when choosing the series MVP...

[mvp 78]

One guy can make the difference, but it's usually a pitcher; I'm thinking 2007 Josh Beckett, 4-0 in the postseason, or 1988 Hershiser: Cy Young Award, NLCS MVP, WS MVP. Once in awhile there's a '79 Willie Stargell: regular season MVP, NLCS MVP, WS MVP.

 

Ortiz 2013?

[moonslav59]

One guy can make the difference, but it's usually a pitcher; I'm thinking 2007 Josh Beckett, 4-0 in the postseason, or 1988 Hershiser: Cy Young Award, NLCS MVP, WS MVP. Once in awhile there's a '79 Willie Stargell: regular season MVP, NLCS MVP, WS MVP.

 

I tend to think of pitchers more often, too, but Papi was memorable.

[Bellhorn04]

We've often seen controversy about pitchers winning or not winning the regular season MVP, so I guess there's no reason there wouldn't be some in the playoffs too.

 

It's always an apples-to-oranges comparison between pitchers and position players.

[Bellhorn04]

They seem to favor giving the short series awards to pitchers. To me, the most glaring question mark was the 1990 World Series MVP Jose Rijo.

 

Now Rijo was great in that series (2-0, 0.59 in 15 IP). But Billy Hatcher (.750/.800/1.250 for a 2.050 OPS) had one of the best post-season series ever for a hitter and was instrumental in all 4 games. The guy got on base EIGHTY PERCENT OF THE TIME! That vaunted A's pitching staff literally could not get him out. That's flat out ridiculous and should not have been ignored like it was when choosing the series MVP...

 

Co-MVP's isn't the worst call sometimes...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I tend to think of pitchers more often, too, but Papi was memorable.

 

Papi is the most obvious difference maker, but I didn't want to get back into the "clutch" debate. Though he was instrumental in three world titles, I still think he was more of a difference in '04: 22 total hits in three postseason rounds in '04; 17 hits in each of three rounds in '07 and '13.

[moonslav59]

Papi is the most obvious difference maker, but I didn't want to get back into the "clutch" debate. Though he was instrumental in three world titles, I still think he was more of a difference in '04: 22 total hits in three postseason rounds in '04; 17 hits in each of three rounds in '07 and '13.

 

True, and although Papi sucked in that Detroit series, the big grand slam made up for it.

 

It's easy to look a 4-0 pitcher and say, "He carried the team," but it was only 4 games. The fact that that pitcher probably had no bad games, we elevate his performance as being 100% great, but Papi should not be penalized because he played 14-18 games to 4 and had some oh-fors. He certainly "carried the team on his back," almost single- handedly, at times. Many times, in fact.

[Bellhorn04]

True, and although Papi sucked in that Detroit series, the big grand slam made up for it.

 

It's easy to look a 4-0 pitcher and say, "He carried the team," but it was only 4 games. The fact that that pitcher probably had no bad games, we elevate his performance as being 100% great, but Papi should not be penalized because he played 14-18 games to 4 and had some oh-fors. He certainly "carried the team on his back," almost single- handedly, at times. Many times, in fact.

 

That's why it's arguably just wrong to compare pitchers with everyday players.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's why it's arguably just wrong to compare pitchers with everyday players.

 

Of course it is... like, how can anyone justify Eck as the 1992 MVP when he pitched 80 innings -- not even nine complete games -- and runner-up Kirby Puckett played in 160 games?

 

These kinds of discrepancies are why I like WAR as a gauge, at least for valuing pitchers. Good starting pitchers almost always have a lot higher WAR than good relievers, because they are responsible for pitching to -- and retiring -- so many more batters. Total outs are important (even if it does seem like outs in the 9th inning are so much more important).

 

The preceding paragraph is also a good defense (with a correlation in salary) for those who argue against converting Chris Sale to closer.

[moonslav59]

That's why it's arguably just wrong to compare pitchers with everyday players.

 

It's hard, yes, but I think it's always an interesting discussion.

 

One thing that always bugged me about those who argue against the value of a starting pitcher, because they only play every 5 games is the fact that although a SP'er may only go every 5 days, a great one will almost always face more batters, in total, than an everyday player faces all year.

 

Take Pedro's 2000 season. Opponents had 814 PAs against him. That's more than any hitter has ever had in a season.

 

Sure, they are all bunched up in 29 games- not 158 or so, but I think this fact is often overlooked.

[notin]

Co-MVP's isn't the worst call sometimes...

 

The only time I ever saw that, it was TWO pitchers. (Johnson and Schilling, 2001 WS)

[jad]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/10/19/mookie-betts-robs-home-run-nlcs-game-7

 

Isn't this the third night in a row with game-saving plays? I mean, I really wouldn't know because I'm still recovering from the thrill and excitement of getting under the LUXURY TAX CAP, baby!! Now THAT's baseball!

[Bellhorn04]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/10/19/mookie-betts-robs-home-run-nlcs-game-7

 

Isn't this the third night in a row with game-saving plays? I mean, I really wouldn't know because I'm still recovering from the thrill and excitement of getting under the LUXURY TAX CAP, baby!! Now THAT's baseball!

 

Kevin Cash should be instructing his hitters not to hit the ball in Mookie's direction, not in the air at least LOL

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/10/19/mookie-betts-robs-home-run-nlcs-game-7

 

Isn't this the third night in a row with game-saving plays? I mean, I really wouldn't know because I'm still recovering from the thrill and excitement of getting under the LUXURY TAX CAP, baby!! Now THAT's baseball!

 

Today's Boston Globe ran an article by Speier suggesting the Sox should model themselves after LA and not Tampa. If all goes well, that means that someday we'll be in a position to sign a player as good as Mookie Betts.

 

None of us will live to see it, though, since he is a once-in-a-lifetime talent.

[Bellhorn04]

Today's Boston Globe ran an article by Speier suggesting the Sox should model themselves after LA and not Tampa. If all goes well, that means that someday we'll be in a position to sign a player as good as Mookie Betts.

 

None of us will live to see it, though, since he is a once-in-a-lifetime talent.

 

"Once-in-a-lifetime" is an overstatement.

 

But he's the second-best player of his generation for sure.

[notin]

"Once-in-a-lifetime" is an overstatement.

 

But he's the second-best player of his generation for sure.

 

Maybe "once in a Boston lifetime." Who was the best talent to come u through the Sox system before him? Maybe Boggs?