A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Cody Allen had been the closer all season . Tito was a loyal " player's manager " , perhaps to a fault . I think Tito was reluctant to " demote " Allen after Miller was acquired. It worked out okay , but all things being equal , Miller should have closed.

 

I don't think that's what Tito was doing. Because he wasn't even using Miller as the 8th inning guy. Bryan Shaw was the 8th inning guy. Just look at the box scores for Games 1 and 3 of the 2016 Division Series when Cleveland beat us.

[notin]

A lot of folks always seem to focus on the negative. Yaz made the last out in Game 7 of the 1975 World Series and the 1978 playoff game. Failed both times . Choker. And you just could not count on Eck and Mo in the big game.

 

I have seen Yaz being criticized for not being clutch by popping out to end the 1978 season. I think a lot of people forgot he was 39 years old at the time....

[Bellhorn04]

I have seen Yaz being criticized for not being clutch by popping out to end the 1978 season. I think a lot of people forgot he was 39 years old at the time....

 

And he had a home run and an RBI single in that game.

[dgalehouse]

Gossage once said a one inning save felt cheap to him, and it was too easy.

 

A few years back, back when he was into baseball and not politics, Nate Silver threw out the idea of a new way to evaluate relief pitchers with a stat called the "goose egg." A goose egg was basically an outing in which the reliever entered a close game (lead of 2 runs or less) after the 6th inning and did not give up any earned runs. For every shutout inning, the reliever gets credited with one "goose egg." Per his research, Gossage was the all time leader in goose eggs (and, yes, they were named after him)...

 

Baseball was way more fun when we had more Harry Carays and fewer Nate Silvers.

[notin]

I don't think that's what Tito was doing. Because he wasn't even using Miller as the 8th inning guy. Bryan Shaw was the 8th inning guy. Just look at the box scores for Games 1 and 3 of the 2016 Division Series when Cleveland beat us.

 

Miller had 3 saves in 3 chances his first month in Cleveland. In two of those games, the opposing team was bringing up the top of order in the ninth. (One was against the Yankees, with 1-2-3 coming up and a 3 run lead, the other against the Twins with 9-1-2 coming up and a 1 run lead.) His third save was in a 1-0 against Oakland.

[notin]

Baseball was way more fun when we had more Harry Carays and fewer Nate Silvers.

 

People like Nate Silver don't change baseball; they change the way people look at baseball.

 

Harry Carey didn't change baseball; he gave people something to watch that wasn't baseball...

[jad]

Baseball was way more fun when we had more Harry Carays and fewer Nate Silvers.

 

Harry Carey was a drunk, whose antics got old fast. No one needs announcers like that anymore than we want a return of Johnny Most. Better to think of them as relics of past history.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Eck and Rivera are probably the two best closers ever, including the postseason.

 

And yet we remember each of them blowing crucial postseason saves. Eck in 1988 and 1992, Rivera in 2001 and 2004.

 

Mo still give me nightmares. For an entire decade he was the one player that separated great New York teams from good Boston teams. I remember him for pitching three scoreless in Game Seven of the '03 ALCS until Boone's homer. The whole outcome just seemed so inevitable once Rivera, the MVP of that series, took over.

 

It also made Bill Mueller's rip up the middle in '04 that much more of a miracle (still to this day the most underrated hit in Red Sox history).

[dgalehouse]

Harry Carey was a drunk, whose antics got old fast. No one needs announcers like that anymore than we want a return of Johnny Most. Better to think of them as relics of past history.

 

Maybe you are a fan of Dave " Mr. Personality " O'Brien.

[notin]

Mo still give me nightmares. For an entire decade he was the one player that separated great New York teams from good Boston teams. I remember him for pitching three scoreless in Game Seven of the '03 ALCS until Boone's homer. The whole outcome just seemed so inevitable once Rivera, the MVP of that series, took over.

 

It also made Bill Mueller's rip up the middle in '04 that much more of a miracle (still to this day the most underrated hit in Red Sox history).

 

How much of a miracle was that hit really?

 

For his career, Mueller hit .455/.500/.727 against Mariano Rivera.

 

The only hitters (min 10 PA) to have a higher OPS vs Rivera than Mueller were Edgar Martinez, Jason Kubel and Aubrey Huff. Period. End of list...

[notin]

Harry Carey was a drunk, whose antics got old fast. No one needs announcers like that anymore than we want a return of Johnny Most. Better to think of them as relics of past history.

 

Harry Carey was not there to announce baseball. He was there to make the broadcast fun and bring the party atmosphere to Wrigley, since there was no way the Cubs were capable of doing either task with anything related to baseball. Carey was a distraction, and a very successful one.

 

Skip Carey, on the other hand, was an outstanding play-by-play man...

[Bellhorn04]

Mo still give me nightmares. For an entire decade he was the one player that separated great New York teams from good Boston teams. I remember him for pitching three scoreless in Game Seven of the '03 ALCS until Boone's homer. The whole outcome just seemed so inevitable once Rivera, the MVP of that series, took over.

 

It also made Bill Mueller's rip up the middle in '04 that much more of a miracle (still to this day the most underrated hit in Red Sox history).

 

I don't think it's underrated by true Red Sox intelligentsia - like us.

[dgalehouse]

Harry Carey was not there to announce baseball. He was there to make the broadcast fun and bring the party atmosphere to Wrigley, since there was no way the Cubs were capable of doing either task with anything related to baseball. Carey was a distraction, and a very successful one.

 

Skip Carey, on the other hand, was an outstanding play-by-play man...

 

Mel Allen was a pretty good announcer and an unabashed Yankee homer. Back in the day , he would be in the booth for Sunday doubleheaders at the Stadium . By the fifth inning of the nightcap he would be pretty well into the Ballantine Ale , and the games became much more fun.

[notin]

Mel Allen was a pretty good announcer and an unabashed Yankee homer. Back in the day , he would be in the booth for Sunday doubleheaders at the Stadium . By the fifth inning of the nightcap he would be pretty well into the Ballantine Ale , and the games became much more fun.

 

Before my time, although I was well aware of his distinctive voice from "This Week in Baseball".

 

 

With Harry Carey, it wasn't the drinking and slurring that was the distraction. It was the singing at the 7th inning stretch and the bizarre, off the wall commentary in the middle of an inning. With no prompting, and for no reason he would just say stuff like "Bowa spelled backwards is Awob".

 

To this day, no one still knows why...

Edited March 19, 2021 by notin

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How much of a miracle was that hit really?

 

 

Gee, let's see: exactly one year after blowing a three-run lead just five outs away from going to the World Series and finally beating our arch-rivals who had won five pennants the past seven years, down three games to none in the bottom of the 9th with the season on the line vs. the greatest postseason closer of all-time who would someday become the only unanimous Hall of Famer in history... all we needed to come back was to win four straight for the first time in baseball history.

 

I'm sure there were loads of confident Red Sox fans who knew we had it in the bag.

[dgalehouse]

Gee, let's see: exactly one year after blowing a three-run lead just five outs away from going to the World Series and finally beating our arch-rivals who had won five pennants the past seven years, down three games to none in the bottom of the 9th with the season on the line vs. the greatest postseason closer of all-time who would someday become the only unanimous Hall of Famer in history... all we needed to come back was to win four straight for the first time in baseball history.

 

I'm sure there were loads of confident Red Sox fans who knew we had it in the bag.

 

I was still sweating with a seven run lead in Game 7.

[dgalehouse]

Before my time, although I was well aware of his distinctive voice from "This Week in Baseball".

 

 

With Harry Carey, it wasn't the drinking and slurring that was the distraction. It was the singing at the 7th inning stretch and the bizarre, off the wall commentary in the middle of an inning. With no prompting, and for no reason he would just say stuff like "Bowa spelled backwards is Awob".

 

To this day, no one still knows why...

 

I liked Harry Caray . And I always enjoyed Hawk Harrelson . John Sterling too. And I think an announcer like Cosell really helped to popularize Monday Night Football , even though everyone loved to hate him. I don't much care for the bland , colorless , low charisma types.

[Bellhorn04]

I liked Harry Caray . And I always enjoyed Hawk Harrelson . John Sterling too. And I think an announcer like Cosell really helped to popularize Monday Night Football , even though everyone loved to hate him. I don't much care for the bland , colorless , low charisma types.

 

Gifford, Cosell and Meredith made a great team.

[a700hitter]

I was still sweating with a seven run lead in Game 7.

Me too! And I was having heart palpitations during Pedro’s inning.

Edited March 21, 2021 by a700hitter

[Kimmi]

Bingo.

 

I would rather see a team's best reliever used when the game is actually on the line as opposed to being reserved for the final 3 to 4 outs.

 

^^This 100%.

 

It makes little sense to save your best reliever for a 9th inning save opportunity that may never come.

[Kimmi]

Especially with 3 run lead.....ugh. Did you say save?

 

Saves and blown saves are terrible stats. Don't get me started.

[Kimmi]

Using your closer in a so called " leverage " situation in the 7th inning is an idea that has been kicked around for a few years now. It has never really caught on. I think the reason is that baseball people feel that , with few exceptions, the game is never more " on the line " than it is in the ninth inning. Everything is amped up to the max in the ninth inning.

 

If you have a 1 run game in the 9th versus a 1 run game in the 7th, then certainly, everything is more amped up in the 9th inning. But if you have a 1 run game in the 7th with the heart of the order coming up versus a 3 run game in the 9th with the bottom of the order coming up (or worse, the game could be lost by that point), then I would have to disagree about the 9th inning being more amped up.

 

The problem is, when you have a high leverage situation in the 7th, you don't know that the high leverage situation will still exist in the 9th. IMO, it's better to save the game when the game is on the line, then worry about the 9th inning when you get there. I'd prefer not lose the game with my best reliever sitting on the bench.

[jad]

Mel Allen was a pretty good announcer and an unabashed Yankee homer. Back in the day , he would be in the booth for Sunday doubleheaders at the Stadium . By the fifth inning of the nightcap he would be pretty well into the Ballantine Ale , and the games became much more fun.

 

Curt Gowdy for the RS was the best; Joe Castiglione is right in that tradition.

[jad]

It was a lot of fun BEING drunk (if I remember those times correctly), and it certainly is great fun being stoned. But listening to someone else who is drunk or stoned?--not so much.

[Nick]

If you have a 1 run game in the 9th versus a 1 run game in the 7th, then certainly, everything is more amped up in the 9th inning. But if you have a 1 run game in the 7th with the heart of the order coming up versus a 3 run game in the 9th with the bottom of the order coming up (or worse, the game could be lost by that point), then I would have to disagree about the 9th inning being more amped up.

 

The problem is, when you have a high leverage situation in the 7th, you don't know that the high leverage situation will still exist in the 9th. IMO, it's better to save the game when the game is on the line, then worry about the 9th inning when you get there. I'd prefer not lose the game with my best reliever sitting on the bench.

 

Was it the Cubs manager getting criticized for not using his best reliever is a loss? Maybe it was someone else....

[dgalehouse]

Was it the Cubs manager getting criticized for not using his best reliever is a loss? Maybe it was someone else....

 

I think you mean when the Oriole's manager Buck Showalter held back Zach Britton , waiting for a lead that never came.

[jacksonianmarch]

Was it the Cubs manager getting criticized for not using his best reliever is a loss? Maybe it was someone else....

 

No, it was the Cubs manager who tried to get 3 innings out of Chapman in Game 7

[Bellhorn04]

I think you mean when the Oriole's manager Buck Showalter held back Zach Britton , waiting for a lead that never came.

 

Dreadful management by Buck.

 

Another dubious one was when Hinch didn't use Cole in Game 7 of the 2019 WS.

[jacksonianmarch]

To Buck that night was just another Tuesday. There’s a reason why multiple teams won titles after he left. He was holding them back

[Nick]

To Buck that night was just another Tuesday. There’s a reason why multiple teams won titles after he left. He was holding them back

 

Yeah that was him......he was always cocky vs Red Sox...he had his little run but came back down to earth.....