Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[mvp 78]

Sounds fair. I wouldn't pay Price $16M x 3, so I see it as a plus.

 

We can afford Betts next winter, if that's what Bloom wants.

 

If not, we can hope Bloom does his thing with bargain deals and much more money to spend than he ever had in TB.

 

I hate seeing Mookie go, but I'm still holding out hope he comes back next year.

 

I can't fault you for hoping that he'd come back, but it was a lost cause for sure. Smart posters realized this.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Right. Because Henry had clearly given up on keeping him.

 

Remember at the time, Henry said, "Mookie has to decide whether he wants to spend the rest of his career in Boston."

 

In retrospect -- after the disclosure Betts turned down $300 million -- Henry was maybe bitter and disappointed. He had put a cap on a business transaction, as if a ballplayer was just another commodity. But ballplayers are individuals, and Mookie Betts was and is a special one.

 

John Henry made the biggest mistake of his career, equating people with soy beans.

[moonslav59]

I can't fault you for hoping that he'd come back, but it was a lost cause for sure. Smart posters realized this.

 

I never thought we'd sign him after he left.

 

I did say we could sign him, if he he became a FA like he emphatically said that's what he wanted to do.

[moonslav59]

Remember at the time, Henry said, "Mookie has to decide whether he wants to spend the rest of his career in Boston."

 

In retrospect -- after the disclosure Betts turned down $300 million -- Henry was maybe bitter and disappointed. He had put a cap on a business transaction, as if a ballplayer was just another commodity. But ballplayers are individuals, and Mookie Betts was and is a special one.

 

John Henry made the biggest mistake of his career, equating people with soy beans.

 

I'm fine with saying that was the biggest mistake. I wanted Betts to stay.

 

I do think that if our budgets stayed the same as they were in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023, we'd be in the same boat with or without Betts.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm fine with saying that was the biggest mistake. I wanted Betts to stay.

 

I do think that if our budgets stayed the same as they were in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023, we'd be in the same boat with or without Betts.

 

I know your point, and I don't necessarily disagree with where the Sox would be in the standings.

 

But as a fan, I'd still get to watch and root for a Hall of Famer... who is still (and may be for years to come) a cornerstone player to rebuild around.

[Jasonbay44]

Mookie with two more homers tonight. He’s going to hit 40+ if he stays healthy.

[moonslav59]

I know your point, and I don't necessarily disagree with where the Sox would be in the standings.

 

But as a fan, I'd still get to watch and root for a Hall of Famer... who is still (and may be for years to come) a cornerstone player to rebuild around.

 

I agree, and who knows? Maybe, JH would have decided to spend more than he has, or he could have just told Mookie to sit tight through the farm build up. They could

have traded Devers and been in this same situation, but with Betts not Devers.

 

It's a big maybe, because we don't know if Betts would have signed with us at any price.

 

I try not to think about the loss of Betts, because it hurts, so much. I try to understand why JH made the choice to go cheap on the most complete player we've had in over 50 years (at least.)

 

I've accepted what happened, somehow, but what seems to bother me most, now, is why so many blame Bloom for it. I know that seems weird, but somehow I've made peace with JH's choice, and feel like the 4 rings he helped make happen will never get me to the point where I hold the Betts situation against him enough to turn on him.

 

For one thing, we never know if Betts might have just not wanted to sign with us, or the Dodgers would have offered some outlandish amount, even you and I would maybe say, let him walk.

 

It's all too speculative and convoluted, at this point, but no doubt, it hurts like hell seeing Betts play like he has always played and smile like every fan loves seeing a guy who loves the game as much as he does.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I agree, and who knows? Maybe, JH would have decided to spend more than he has, or he could have just told Mookie to sit tight through the farm build up. They could

have traded Devers and been in this same situation, but with Betts not Devers.

 

It's a big maybe, because we don't know if Betts would have signed with us at any price.

 

I try not to think about the loss of Betts, because it hurts, so much. I try to understand why JH made the choice to go cheap on the most complete player we've had in over 50 years (at least.)

 

I've accepted what happened, somehow, but what seems to bother me most, now, is why so many blame Bloom for it. I know that seems weird, but somehow I've made peace with JH's choice, and feel like the 4 rings he helped make happen will never get me to the point where I hold the Betts situation against him enough to turn on him.

 

For one thing, we never know if Betts might have just not wanted to sign with us, or the Dodgers would have offered some outlandish amount, even you and I would maybe say, let him walk.

 

It's all too speculative and convoluted, at this point, but no doubt, it hurts like hell seeing Betts play like he has always played and smile like every fan loves seeing a guy who loves the game as much as he does.

 

 

The thing is -- and I expect some local reporter to address this when the Dodgers come to Boston this week -- that Mookie himself has said more than once this year that he never wanted to leave Boston and wanted (or expected) to play his whole career there.

 

One time -- correct me if I'm wrong -- it wasn't even an interview reply, but just him being candid on a blog.

 

It's like Betts won't let it heal... and we're the open wounded.

[notin]

The thing is -- and I expect some local reporter to address this when the Dodgers come to Boston this week -- that Mookie himself has said more than once this year that he never wanted to leave Boston and wanted (or expected) to play his whole career there.

 

One time -- correct me if I'm wrong -- it wasn't even an interview reply, but just him being candid on a blog.

 

It's like Betts won't let it heal... and we're the open wounded.

 

The thing is, Mookie never said that when he was here. Not even when reportedly offered a $300mill/10 yr contract…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The thing is, Mookie never said that when he was here. Not even when reportedly offered a $300mill/10 yr contract…

 

It's a valid point, and I remember hoping at the time it was just his way of not tipping his hand, a calculated business decision to hedge against having to face a hometown discount (Mookie was here when Lester got burned for revealing he'd make such concessions... come to think of it, Bogie did, too, as far as having to uproot his career).

[notin]

It's a valid point, and I remember hoping at the time it was just his way of not tipping his hand, a calculated business decision to hedge against having to face a hometown discount (Mookie was here when Lester got burned for revealing he'd make such concessions... come to think of it, Bogie did, too, as far as having to uproot his career).

 

Those were all under different regimes, though.

 

Lester was under Cherington. Bogaerts was under Bloom. Mookie did it under Dave “Open Checkbook” Dombrowski…

[Maxbialystock]

I'm fine with saying that was the biggest mistake. I wanted Betts to stay.

 

I do think that if our budgets stayed the same as they were in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023, we'd be in the same boat with or without Betts.

 

I loved Mookie, but completely agree with JH's thinking, as I see it--

 

The 2019 Sox had almost all of the same studs (except Kimbrel) the glorious 2018 Sox had. And they still had the highest payroll in MLB.

 

But, as we all know the pitching collapsed and the Sox couldn't even get to the postseason. So, just to stay even or maybe get back to the 2018 level, DD no doubt told JH he would need a minimum of another $50M (above the highest payroll in MLB) just to keep Mookie and replace Price and Sale in the rotation. Plus another $15M to get another good closer.

[Hugh2]

Yep -- and my girlfriend who left to be with European soccer players and race car drivers is going to come back to me... because she used to really like me.

 

Hey check out the tag line, I ain’t changing it. And my tag lines haven’t been wrong yet

[Hugh2]

Hey check out the tag line, I ain’t changing it. And my tag lines haven’t been wrong yet

 

Oh wait damnit, I don’t have one on this account grrrrr.

 

I don’t know any of my passwords, everything is just automatic so I’m either on my phone or at work. I’ll be on my phone for a few days… I’m on vacation.

 

But, I predict the Sox surprise everyone with some big starting pitching upgrades this offseason

[moonslav59]

The thing is -- and I expect some local reporter to address this when the Dodgers come to Boston this week -- that Mookie himself has said more than once this year that he never wanted to leave Boston and wanted (or expected) to play his whole career there.

 

One time -- correct me if I'm wrong -- it wasn't even an interview reply, but just him being candid on a blog.

 

It's like Betts won't let it heal... and we're the open wounded.

 

I get it, and it still hurts. It's hard to know what would have happened had he gone to free agency as a Red Sox player. The whole COVID thing might have messed things up, but I have to think the Dodgers would have offered a lot, and they would not have lost Verdugo, Wong and Downs to offer the world for him.

 

How high would have been reasonable for the Sox to match or better the highest offer? If Betts meant what he said, you'd think we'd just have to match or come close for him to return.

 

I tend to believe Mookie, but I do think players would want to give the impression they have always been "loyal" to the team they are on.

 

If it would have cost $360/12 to get him, I'm not sure that would be a good thing for the team, in the long run. Personally, I'd have done it.

[dgalehouse]

I loved Mookie, but completely agree with JH's thinking, as I see it--

 

The 2019 Sox had almost all of the same studs (except Kimbrel) the glorious 2018 Sox had. And they still had the highest payroll in MLB.

 

But, as we all know the pitching collapsed and the Sox couldn't even get to the postseason. So, just to stay even or maybe get back to the 2018 level, DD no doubt told JH he would need a minimum of another $50M (above the highest payroll in MLB) just to keep Mookie and replace Price and Sale in the rotation. Plus another $15M to get another good closer.

 

Max, Mookie was under contract through the 2020 season. As for a closer, the money should have been spent as needed to get a good one. Kimbrel had 42 saves in 2018 . In 2019, Workman led with a total of 16. No one was a close second. The devaluing of the bullpen was a major factor in the relatively poor result in 2019. And it has remained a sore spot until this year.

[moonslav59]

Max, Mookie was under contract through the 2020 season. As for a closer, the money should have been spent as needed to get a good one. Kimbrel had 42 saves in 2018 . In 2019, Workman led with a total of 16. No one was a close second. The devaluing of the bullpen was a major factor in the relatively poor result in 2019. And it has remained a sore spot until this year.

 

They also did not bring back Kelly and made no deals at the deadline. It was obvious the spending strategy changed before DD left, and even DD could not turn 2019 into a highly competitive team.

 

The declines from the vest were as much a reason for the disappointing season as losing Kimbrell, who was a ticking time bomb over the end of 2018, as it was. (Hell, some argued for Kelly being left off the playoff rosters in 2018.)

 

It was obvious what direction the team was headed, and JH read the writing on the wall. He chose not to try and spend his way out of it, and that sealed the deal, totally.

 

It sucked, but it was what it was.

 

I'm not throwing blame on JH, because he's the best thing that happened to the Sox in over 80 years.

 

Had he decided to spend more money than he ended up doing in 2019 and beyond, then signing Betts was essential, but once he made the choice, trading Betts makes more sense.

 

I still wish we kept him, regardless, but our team would have been totally stripped of a supporting caste had we extended Betts and kept the same budgets.

 

[Bellhorn04]

It's a valid point, and I remember hoping at the time it was just his way of not tipping his hand, a calculated business decision to hedge against having to face a hometown discount (Mookie was here when Lester got burned for revealing he'd make such concessions... come to think of it, Bogie did, too, as far as having to uproot his career).

 

Mookie is a very smart guy.

 

He did share the story of how his mom basically talked him out of accepting the Sox first extension offer, which was for 8 years and 200 mill, I believe.

[moonslav59]

Mookie is a very smart guy.

 

He did share the story of how his mom basically talked him out of accepting the Sox first extension offer, which was for 8 years and 200 mill, I believe.

 

I wonder, if way back then, we'd have come back with $24M/8, his mom would have said, "Sign that contract!"

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Amidst all the Mookie Returns articles is PA's interview at the Globe:

 

“That was my team. Just because I didn’t take an offer didn’t mean I didn’t want to be there. There’s a business component to the game.

 

“We were looking for houses in Boston. We thought it was going to work out. I thought both sides were playing the slow game and it would eventually work out. We were negotiating, that’s what I thought.”

 

Betts said he never gave the Sox any ultimatum or a figure they had to meet.

 

“Normal negotiations, going back and forth,” he said. “Of course I’m going to stand my ground just like you should stand your ground. But I thought we’d keep talking.”

 

Betts was adamant that the Red Sox never offered him a deal worth $300 million over 10 years.

“That never happened,” he said. “I know that’s out there and people say what they’ve got to say. But no, they didn’t do that. They didn’t.”

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Brock Holt to Rob Bradford: "I asked him straight up, 'If the Red Sox offered you what the Dodgers offered you are you staying?' He was like, 'Right now?' I'm like, 'No, back then. Before you got traded.' He's like, 'Oh, I'm staying.' Mookie wanted to stay," Holt said.

[Bellhorn04]

Brock Holt to Rob Bradford: "I asked him straight up, 'If the Red Sox offered you what the Dodgers offered you are you staying?' He was like, 'Right now?' I'm like, 'No, back then. Before you got traded.' He's like, 'Oh, I'm staying.' Mookie wanted to stay," Holt said.

 

Shame on John.

[mvp 78]

Shame on John.

 

Hard to say what is true. However, I believe the Sox could have put an amount on paper to get Mookie to stay.

[Dipre]

Wallowing about Mookie sure furthers along the discussion about the 2023 Boston Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

Wallowing about Mookie sure furthers along the discussion about the 2023 Boston Red Sox.

 

Maybe we should limit all Mookie discussions to the 3 day period of each yearly series, going forward.

 

(Yea, right!)

[Old Red]

Wallowing about Mookie sure furthers along the discussion about the 2023 Boston Red Sox.

 

As long as Mookie is playing baseball, and probably years after he is done, and goes into the HOF there will be woulda, coulda,and shoulda Mookie talk in Boston. Especially since he’s in town for the first time since he left town that’s all the more reason. Next to the Babe, Mookie is probably the 2nd biggest blunder in Red Sox history.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Old Red

[mvp 78]

Also, happy anniversary to the original Dodgers trade in 2012!

[mvp 78]

Wallowing about Mookie sure furthers along the discussion about the 2023 Boston Red Sox.

 

Well, it's at least vaguely relevant today as it's his first game back at Fenway tonight.

[Old Red]

Well, it's at least vaguely relevant today as it's his first game back at Fenway tonight.

 

Do you think JH will be there to greet him?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As long as Mookie is playing baseball, and probably years after he is done, and goes into the HOF there will be woulda, coulda,and shoulda Mookie talk in Boston. Especially since he’s in town for the first time since he left town that’s all the more reason. Next to the Babe Mookie is probably the 2nd biggest blunder in Red Sox history.

 

And the '23 Red Sox instead have Wong, a decent catcher, and Verdugo, who often looks like an above-average big leaguer, but occasionally causes issues that detract from the best interests of this team succeeding in a team sport. In 2023, that is...