Mookie Betts and David Price have been traded to Dodgers

[Elktonnick]

I'm saying it might not have mattered by as much as some think it did.

 

I think the hype around this type of situation is overblown.

 

I think we got more for Betts than I expected before Henry's statement.

 

5 years or Verdugu, 5+ years of Downs and Wong plus $15 off the lux tax in 2021 and 2022.

 

Price was iffy over the last few years. He came through, when we needed him, and I'll always be thankful for that, but the last 3 years of his deal were always expected to be below value, even if he'd done well up to now.

 

We did well. If all this about Henry was true, then since we are now below the tax line, we should be able to trade JBJ, Eovaldi and others as there is no longer any pressure or feeling that other teams know we have to dump them, right?

 

(Nope.)

 

My.Lord are you being presumptive. There is hardly any guarantee.that Verdugo will anything but a so so player. Moreover there is even less guarantee that Downs will ever play an inning in the majors.

The pressure is now on Bloom to deliver. Boston still needs pitching.

[fxkatt]

2020 may have been a big year with Betts and Price, but I really think this team needs a break from big and long contracts that are invariably risky. Even with these two contracts gone, we're still going to be paying at least 40 million a year for 3 non-roster players. I mean Tampa Bay last year paid 52 million total. Maybe Bloom will be the answer to beating the huge gamble contracts that weigh teams down.

[cp176]

Oh. Well now we know. (Or at least, since "winning" is undefined here, and all alternatives will be purely speculative, you can pride yourself in knowing that your argument/assertion is irrefutable.) But I realize there are different types of fans, and as a serious answer, yes, I would rather watch the best player in the world 162 times in 2020 than prospects, and as for 2021-22? we may all be dead. And if the Sox suck, then they suck: I didn't become more of a fan in 2003 than I was in the 50s. And I really don't care about fantasy-sports, dueling analytics, competitive GM-ing or John Henry's bank account. I do care about watching great players who have been with the team a long time. If they make the post-season? great--there will be more games. If not? so what?

 

Interesting post. I agree with you for sure. The things that you don't care about, I also don't care about. I'm just a simple fan - as most people likely are. i have no interest in playing General Manager. I'm not a multi billionaire, so I'm not going to pretend to know how best JH should be spending his money. I'm pretty sure that he could have signed Betts for the next decade and not skipped a beat. Once again, I think that probably Bloom did about as well as he could have done but after reading up on the players coming to Boston, I don't see one can't miss prospect there. There is some obvious ability amongst them but how it manifests itself as they mature in all ways, really still is up for grabs. If I wasn't one of those guys who has been a fan since the 50's, I really do not think that this current game would hold much interest for me. I have also been offered the chance to change hats by one of my friends and as tempting as it is, I guess I just have too much New England and Red Sox in me to do that.

[mvp 78]

Good analysis, but I think we were likely toast in 2020, even with Betts & Price.

 

 

So the cliff isn’t based on who is on your roster and payroll, but just your own projection of how well the team should do? A new wrinkle to your belief system for sure.

[Larry33]

I'm a big Cora fan, and even called him our greatest manager ever.

 

How can you a call a cheat the greatest manager ever.

 

This make Pete Rose a kindergarden prankster compared to what some of the other players have been caught doing today.

 

Mookie Betts has been one of the greatest baseball player he's better than Fred Lynn and Dwight Evans.

 

It isn't Mookie fault if the Red Sox gave away bad contract to others player and expect him to take a reduce contract sports always rewards their Heros.

Teams has a chance to discover an elite player once awhile most of time it's only realized when is too late if you're lucky enough to get one you should be bright enough to keep him.

[OH FOY]

Very good deal, for a 1 year rental. Now the thing did they guess right with Graterol? Wong has jumped 2 leagues since coming out of U of Houston. Those are good signs, and with nothing in the Minors at this position, we'll see if he makes more progress.

Down, 24 HRS total last year in Double AA, 23 HRS in A+, have to keep an eye on him. At Double AA, and only 21 years old.

Edited February 10, 2020 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

I'm a big Cora fan, and even called him our greatest manager ever.

 

How can you a call a cheat the greatest manager ever.

 

This make Pete Rose a kindergarden prankster compared to what some of the other players have been caught doing today.

 

Mookie Betts has been one of the greatest baseball player he's better than Fred Lynn and Dwight Evans.

 

It isn't Mookie fault if the Red Sox gave away bad contract to others player and expect him to take a reduce contract sports always rewards their Heros.

Teams has a chance to discover an elite player once awhile most of time it's only realized when is too late if you're lucky enough to get one you should be bright enough to keep him.

 

The problem is that in this case, 'being bright' means shelling out $420 million.

[Hugh2]

I remember back in the day I used to comment here all day long. Life has swept up in its many wonders of homeownership, parenthood, and running a business. I apologize if this has already been brought up but the F.A. classes of 2021/2022 look pretty stacked.

 

I believe that is relevant given that they will get under the luxury tax threshold this year.

[OH FOY]

Pretty slick thing what Bloom did too. He wanted this Trade from the get go. Held it up, and got it. Gamble that worked.

[mvp 78]

I remember back in the day I used to comment here all day long. Life has swept up in its many wonders of homeownership, parenthood, and running a business. I apologize if this has already been brought up but the F.A. classes of 2021/2022 look pretty stacked.

 

I believe that is relevant given that they will get under the luxury tax threshold this year.

 

The problem with waiting on FA classes is that sometimes the guy you really want is handed an extension before he gets to FA.

[notin]

The problem with waiting on FA classes is that sometimes the guy you really want is handed an extension before he gets to FA.

 

But this class has some players hellbent on reaching free agency, namely Mookie Betts and Trevor Bauer...

[mvp 78]

But this class has some players hellbent on reaching free agency, namely Mookie Betts and Trevor Bauer...

 

No to Bauer please.

[mvp 78]

Fangraphs:

 

Jay Jaffe wrote up the previous iteration of this trade on Wednesday, so let’s focus on the newer aspects of this trade. I asked our own Eric Longenhagen for his evaluation of both Downs and Wong. He had this to say about Downs:

 

Downs has been a polished, advanced hitter for his age dating way back to high school. He’s not a shortstop for me and his thicker lower half means his likely future home is as a shift-aided second baseman at maturity, in my opinion. He’s short back to the ball with some pop, and his swing is bottom-hand heavy, which leaves him somewhat vulnerable to velo in on his hands, but he’s selective enough to swing at pitches he can damage. Despite the patience and bat control, I think he ends up with closer to average contact ability but with fully actualized power production, a well-rounded offensive profile that cleanly profiles at second base. His average exit velo was 88 mph last year, and there’s not a lot of room on the body so that might be all. He’s a 50 FV prospect set to be around 60th overall on Wednesday’s Top 100.

 

As for Wong, Longenhagen said:

 

Wong is a multi-positional defender who can also play catcher. His is another swing the Dodgers have tweaked since college, when Wong was more contact-oriented. He has average raw power but lifts the ball. His approach is an issue and I think it’ll prevent him from being a full-time player, but his ability to catch and play on the infield will make him a cool role player who gives Boston’s big league roster defensive flexibility.

 

If we want to compare this deal to the one the Red Sox backed out of — and we definitely do want to compare them — Boston did slightly better in the current iteration. They grabbed a similarly ranked prospect to Graterol in Downs and got an extra player in Wong. Ultimately, the Red Sox got the financial relief they so coveted, as well as a decent, recently graduated prospect, a solid prospect, and a potential role player. In a vacuum, it’s a fair deal, with Boston getting lesser prospects for one year of one of the game’s best players because they attached a lot of David Price’s contract to the bargain. For Boston fans, the deal sucks. The Red Sox didn’t need to back off from contention and trade Mookie Betts. The deal serves principally to increase the Red Sox’s profits with a small increase in their competitive position some years down the line.

[mvp 78]

That last line is just brutal.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

My.Lord are you being presumptive. There is hardly any guarantee.that Verdugo will anything but a so so player. Moreover there is even less guarantee that Downs will ever play an inning in the majors.

The pressure is now on Bloom to deliver. Boston still needs pitching.

 

Where did I presume any would be great?

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

So the cliff isn’t based on who is on your roster and payroll, but just your own projection of how well the team should do? A new wrinkle to your belief system for sure.

 

Nope.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

I'm a big Cora fan, and even called him our greatest manager ever.

 

How can you a call a cheat the greatest manager ever.

 

This make Pete Rose a kindergarden prankster compared to what some of the other players have been caught doing today.

 

Mookie Betts has been one of the greatest baseball player he's better than Fred Lynn and Dwight Evans.

 

It isn't Mookie fault if the Red Sox gave away bad contract to others player and expect him to take a reduce contract sports always rewards their Heros.

Teams has a chance to discover an elite player once awhile most of time it's only realized when is too late if you're lucky enough to get one you should be bright enough to keep him.

 

I called him that before knowing he cheated with the Astros.

 

I never blamed Mookie for what he did. He did what I'd do. I hope we get him back and even suggested we pay him $420/13. He is the greatest everyday player I have seen play for the Sox. I hope he retires here.

[Larry33]

 

The problem is that in this case, 'being bright' means shelling out $420 million.

 

Who created the problem the OWNERS if they wouldn't offer such luxurious contract none of this would be happening but the greed of owning the best elite players for their team. Can't blame the player if someone is foolish enough offer the contract they be stupid not to take it the owner themselves said it's business.

 

You don't go hiring a Dollar Store GM to run a Loro Piana Fenway Park has the highest ticket prices I guess they can't afford keep their elite players instead they rather pay under achievers. Teams rebuild around their superstar.

[mvp 78]

 

Who created the problem the OWNERS if they wouldn't offer such luxurious contract none of this would be happening but the greed of owning the best elite players for their team. Can't blame the player if someone is foolish enough offer the contract they be stupid not to take the owner themselves said it's business.

 

You don't go hiring a Dollar Store GM to run a Loro Piana Fenway Park has the highest ticket prices I guess they can't afford keep their elite players instead they rather pay under achievers. Teams rebuild around their superstar.

 

The owners are to blame for the CBT. It makes no sense to penalize a team that wants to win and pay players, but to be perfectly ok with what the Pirates are doing to their fanbase.

[Elktonnick]

Where did I presume any would be great?

 

Once again you misquote some one.

 

You presumed that Verdugo would be playing in Boston for five years. I think that is an assumption not supported by his record. So so players don't last that long on contending teams especially in the outfield at Fenway Park. Given his injury record I don't see him lasting two especially if he plays right field.

[jung]

So, are we really going to have an all left hand hitting OF for 2020? I guess that might be OK if they were all as thoughtful and hardworking as Ted Williams. But of course NONE OF THEM ARE!

 

Actually I don't think it much matters. 2020 is done before it starts. Could be interesting to see how that effects the gate and viewership for the average fan.

[mvp 78]

So, are we really going to have an all left hand hitting OF for 2020? I guess that might be OK if they were all as thoughtful and hardworking as Ted Williams. But of course NONE OF THEM ARE!

 

Actually I don't think it much matters. 2020 is done before it starts. Could be interesting to see how that effects the gate and viewership for the average fan.

 

If only all of our players were as good as one of the faces on baseball's Mt Rushmore!

[mvp 78]

 

Once again you misquote some one.

 

You presumed that Verdugo would be playing in Boston for five years. I think that is an assumption not supported by his record. So so players don't last that long on contending teams especially in the outfield at Fenway Park. Given his injury record I don't see him lasting two especially if he plays right field.

 

Can we at least let Verdugo play through a season here before we call him a bust?

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

Where did I presume any would be great?

 

Once again you misquote some one.

 

You presumed that Verdugo would be playing in Boston for five years. I think that is an assumption not supported by his record. So so players don't last that long on contending teams especially in the outfield at Fenway Park. Given his injury record I don't see him lasting two especially if he plays right field.

 

You misquoted me. I said Verdugo had 5 years of team control. I never said he'd be in the bigs for all 5 or with Boston for all 5.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say he will be in MLB for all 5 years and do pretty well.

[Elktonnick]

Once again you misquote some one.

 

You presumed that Verdugo would be playing in Boston for five years. I think that is an assumption not supported by his record. So so players don't last that long on contending teams especially in the outfield at Fenway Park. Given his injury record I don't see him lasting two especially if he plays right field.

 

You misquoted me. I said Verdugo had 5 years of team control. I never said he'd be in the bigs for all 5 or with Boston for all 5.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say he will be in MLB for all 5 years and do pretty well.

 

I don't see it that way. Let's see who is right.

[Slasher9]

i think Los Dodgers will need to kick in some more $ for price or send a prospect.

 

wrong. 2 prospects!!!

[mvp 78]

You misquoted me. I said Verdugo had 5 years of team control. I never said he'd be in the bigs for all 5 or with Boston for all 5.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say he will be in MLB for all 5 years and do pretty well.

 

I don't see it that way. Let's see who is right.

 

He was a 2 win player as a 23 year old in his first full season in the bigs. He had plus dWAR and plus oWAR. I think he'll be serviceable. So far, he's started like the beginning of JD Drew's career. Drew had some really great years sprinkled in an above average career.

 

I'd take that all day in this type of trade.

[Slasher9]

Slasher,

 

JBJ posted about Mookie and Price on IG. Do you think Mookie is still not liked?

 

lol. i just saw the post and was about to type my mea culpa on that. seems the players are smarter then i give them credit for. they waited until it became "official". btw - did you see Mookies response to JBj's post? still think there is no chance he will sign back with the Sox next offseason???!!!!

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

I don't see it that way. Let's see who is right.

 

He was a 2 win player as a 23 year old in his first full season in the bigs. He had plus dWAR and plus oWAR. I think he'll be serviceable. So far, he's started like the beginning of JD Drew's career. Drew had some really great years sprinkled in an above average career.

 

I'd take that all day in this type of trade.

 

2 win player in just 106 games. (2.2 fWAR)

A pretty good record in the minors.

3.4 UZR/150 with 13 DRS in 756 innings.

 

I'm optimistic he will improve- like most talented players do from age 24 to 27 or 28, but certainly his sample size is small enough to think he may flop or disappoint.

[moonslav59]

Nice phrase. You (and Kimmie) have chanced my thinking on this. It reminds me of what the great philosopher Jagger said, "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes.... you get what you need.'

 

We'd all like to see Mookie around for his entire career, but at what price? Do you want to see him here forever if it means we never win a WSC again because JH can't/won't spend enough additional money to put quality players around him?

 

We may not like this but it may be what we need.

 

lol. i just saw the post and was about to type my mea culpa on that. seems the players are smarter then i give them credit for. they waited until it became "official". btw - did you see Mookies response to JBj's post? still think there is no chance he will sign back with the Sox next offseason???!!!!

 

What was the post and response?