All or... Something?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This may be blasphemy on this board, but I am curious: do most posters on talksox consider a season successful only if your team wins the World Series?

Anyone who grew up last century knows that Red Sox years in the 70s, 80s and 90s didn't just end, but often imploded amid utter ridicule and internal scarring. This century overall has been great, even with some last place finishes and the worst ending ever in '03 (followed by redemption in ’04).

 

Old Yankee fans grew up expecting to win titles, and I know many who still won't accept anything less than a ring as a good season. Ironically, modern Yankee fans under the age of 10 don't view championships as a birthright, since they've yet to experience one. Meanwhile, the script has flipped for young Sox fans.

 

Obviously, only one team ever wins the final game of any sports season. But champions celebrate on our screens all year, every year. Technically, all other teams are losers… but that doesn't make them all failures.

 

The attitude of “win it all or it’s all for naught” can set folks up for a lifetime of disappointment and bitterness. As a spectator, I want the season to be worth watching and following -- with hope -- from the beginning to almost the ending. I want to watch the best Red Sox team possible to have a chance to win in every season. How about you?

[Slasher9]

i expect a $240MM team to win the division. anything less then that is a disappointing season.

having a parade every 4 years helps ease the pain of the occasional year where we miss the postseason.

[moonslav59]

I'd love to see us win every year, even if we only win a ring every now and then, but IMO, I'd rather see a championship surrounded by 3 last place finishes than 4 -90 win seasons with no WS wins or appearances (or maybe just one appearance).

[oldtimer]

i expect a $240MM team to win the division. anything less then that is a disappointing season.

having a parade every 4 years helps ease the pain of the occasional year where we miss the postseason.

 

A $240MM team may well have to beat a $230 MM team to win the championship. Alas, its a lot to ask for a team to win the division. Bad luck, injuries, etc. all can make for tough sledding. I would like to team to reset this year, move in the right direction and at least be somewhat competitive. Its a lot to ask but with Bloom I believe we have a chance of doing just that. I am nt worried as some on the site are that Bloom hasn't made big moves as yet. He has been given a complex job and I would rather see him make one or two good deals than a flurry of poor deals. We have seen too much of them in the past.

[Bellhorn04]

It's pretty much all gravy for me now. From 1969 to 2003 I saw no titles. Now I've seen 4. Since Henry bought the team it's been a fantastic ride.

[moonslav59]

It's pretty much all gravy for me now. From 1969 to 2003 I saw no titles. Now I've seen 4. Since Henry bought the team it's been a fantastic ride.

 

I feel the same, but I sure like the rings a lot more than close/almost seasons.

[vegasbob]

It's pretty much all gravy for me now. From 1969 to 2003 I saw no titles. Now I've seen 4. Since Henry bought the team it's been a fantastic ride.

 

Fully agree, going back to being cognizant of the Sox and being taken by my father to Fenway since the early 1950's. You don't know frustration and Yankee disdain without that history up through 2003. The 7 game WS losses and the 1 game shootouts were even worse . Just watched something on the RS MLB site showing David Ortiz memorable HR, one each from 2003 through 2016. All I could think about watching the balls fly out was that they won it all 3 time with Ortiz and many others and once after. Get ready for the next one even if it takes a few years to reorganize this team. In the interim be consistently competitive which was probably the biggest complaint in 2018.

[Bellhorn04]

I feel the same, but I sure like the rings a lot more than close/almost seasons.

 

I'm not sure people realize how fortunate we have been to win 4 rings in 16 years.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

'03 was rock-bottom as the culmination of all previous collapses leading up to that moment on that stage vs. that opponent, with what was at stake, in the postseason and for the franchise. The day after Game Seven in the '03 ALCS, I had Yankee fans laughing at me at work because I was a Sox fan. Some were just front-runners, people I never heard discuss sports before. To them it was somehow fun to give crap to someone whose team never won it all during our lifetimes. Only one Yankee fan -- an actual ballplayer and teammate of mine -- sincerely said he felt sorry for me.

 

'04 was the absolute right-side up reciprocal... and this century we've been living in an alternate universe.

[Kimmi]

I like to see the team be competitive year in and year out. I don't consider it a failure if the team makes the postseason but doesn't win the World Series. It's heartbreaking to be eliminated from the postseason, but it doesn't make the year a failure.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I like to see the team be competitive year in and year out. I don't consider it a failure if the team makes the postseason but doesn't win the World Series. It's heartbreaking to be eliminated from the postseason, but it doesn't make the year a failure.

 

Glad to hear you say that, Kimmi.

 

As a baseball fan, all I want is for my favorite team to be a contender -- and make the moves in the winter and spring, and win the games during the summer -- that put them in a position to qualify for the postseason.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure people realize how fortunate we have been to win 4 rings in 16 years.

 

Agreed. I'm not saying I need another ring in the next 4-8 years to be happy, and I certainly enjoy watching us compete much more than sucking, but ultimately I'm fine with having a few down years as long as there's a ring among the painful seasons. I'd rather have these 16 years, which included several last place finishes, than placing 16 seasons in a row like the best 16 seasons before Henry (from 1970-2001):

 

1970 (87 wins, 3rd place- no playoffs)

1972 (finished 1/2 GB Detroit & missed the playoffs)

1973 (89 wins finished 8 GB)

1975 (95 wins, 1st, Lost in gm 7 of WS after winning 95 games)

1977 (97 wins and 2.5 GB playoffs)

1978 (99 wins- 2nd, Bucky f***ing Dent)

1979 (91 wins- 3rd place & no playoffs)

1982 (89 wins- 3rd place & no playoffs)

1984 (86 wins- 4th place & no playoffs)

1986 (95 wins 1st, lost WS in 7 games)

1988 (89 wins 1st, lost ALCS 4-0)

1990 (88 wins 1st, lost ALCS 4-0)

1995 (86 wins 1st, lost LDS 3-0)

1998 (92 wins 2nd, lost LDS 3-1)

1999 (94 wins 2nd, lost ALCS 4-1)

2000 (85 wins- 2nd place, no playoffs)

 

I'll take 2004 to 2019 over the best 16 years of my being a Sox fan since 1970.

 

Those were some exciting seasons and great memories, but the heartbreaks and "oh-so-close" seasons tilt the balance, in my opinion, to the last 16 year period- last place finishes and all.

 

 

 

[notin]

I just want them to be competitive.

 

Nothing I hate more than watching the Sox play games in September knowing they’re hopelessly out of it (Yet I still watch.). Give me a reason to be excited through September, and I’ll crown it a successful season....

[moonslav59]

I just want them to be competitive.

 

Nothing I hate more than watching the Sox play games in September knowing they’re hopelessly out of it (Yet I still watch.). Give me a reason to be excited through September, and I’ll crown it a successful season....

 

If you had to choose:

 

16 straight competitive seasons with no rings, no third, 4th or 5th place finishes, 10 playoffs seasons and 2 WS losses.

 

vs

 

16 seasons with 3 last place finishes, 3 third place finishes, no WS losses and 4 WS victories.

[notin]

If you had to choose:

 

16 straight competitive seasons with no rings, no third, 4th or 5th place finishes, 10 playoffs seasons and 2 WS losses.

 

vs

 

16 seasons with 3 last place finishes, 3 third place finishes, no WS losses and 4 WS victories.

 

If you asked me that in 2003, I take the latter. But asking me now, I might consider the former. It’s close...

[fxkatt]

The depressing thing is that when you Win it all, that means higher salaries, paying lux tax, losing precious draft picks, drafting lower, trading away home grown stars... And often starting over with a whole new batch of unfamiliar players and faces. And, of course, it's worse if you've risked big long contracts and lost.

[Nick]

Think Yankee fans are happy? LA fans? I wouldn't be...especially the Yankees....one premier pitcher would have increased their chances. Should have done more at the trade deadline.

[moonslav59]

If you asked me that in 2003, I take the latter. But asking me now, I might consider the former. It’s close...

 

Yes, it's close, but I'll take the latter for sure.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Agreed. I'm not saying I need another ring in the next 4-8 years to be happy, and I certainly enjoy watching us compete much more than sucking, but ultimately I'm fine with having a few down years as long as there's a ring among the painful seasons. I'd rather have these 16 years, which included several last place finishes, than placing 16 seasons in a row like the best 16 seasons before Henry (from 1970-2001):

 

1970 (87 wins, 3rd place- no playoffs)

1972 (finished 1/2 GB Detroit & missed the playoffs)

1973 (89 wins finished 8 GB)

1975 (95 wins, 1st, Lost in gm 7 of WS after winning 95 games)

1977 (97 wins and 2.5 GB playoffs)

1978 (99 wins- 2nd, Bucky f***ing Dent)

1979 (91 wins- 3rd place & no playoffs)

1982 (89 wins- 3rd place & no playoffs)

1984 (86 wins- 4th place & no playoffs)

1986 (95 wins 1st, lost WS in 7 games)

1988 (89 wins 1st, lost ALCS 4-0)

1990 (88 wins 1st, lost ALCS 4-0)

1995 (86 wins 1st, lost LDS 3-0)

1998 (92 wins 2nd, lost LDS 3-1)

1999 (94 wins 2nd, lost ALCS 4-1)

2000 (85 wins- 2nd place, no playoffs)

 

I'll take 2004 to 2019 over the best 16 years of my being a Sox fan since 1970.

 

Those were some exciting seasons and great memories, but the heartbreaks and "oh-so-close" seasons tilt the balance, in my opinion, to the last 16 year period- last place finishes and all.

 

 

 

 

You forgot 1974! The record shows a mediocre 84-win third-place finish... but it's underrated in Sox suckitude -- mainly because of how memorable the following year went.

 

Boston was in first place all summer, even with Fisk lost to injury, and the Sox were seven games up in late August. Then they went to Baltimore to start September and got swept and shutout in three straight, including both games of a doubleheader, 1-0 and 1-0. The Bosox limped to a 14-24 finish, despite debuts by Lynn .419 and Rice the last few weeks, and even got passed by the Yankees.

 

Of course, the O's blew by both, going 26-6 down the stretch. The Birds were always pulling stunts like that -- mainly because they always had the best starting pitchers...

[moonslav59]

You forgot 1974! The record shows a mediocre 84-win third-place finish... but it's underrated in Sox suckitude -- mainly because of how memorable the following year went.

 

Boston was in first place all summer, even with Fisk lost to injury, and the Sox were seven games up in late August. Then they went to Baltimore to start September and got swept and shutout in three straight, including both games of a doubleheader, 1-0 and 1-0. The Bosox limped to a 14-24 finish, despite debuts by Lynn .419 and Rice the last few weeks, and even got passed by the Yankees.

 

Of course, the O's blew by both, going 26-6 down the stretch. The Birds were always pulling stunts like that -- mainly because they always had the best starting pitchers...

 

I remember 1974, but the other years I listed the team had more wins.

[Slasher9]

'03 was rock-bottom as the culmination of all previous collapses leading up to that moment on that stage vs. that opponent, with what was at stake, in the postseason and for the franchise. The day after Game Seven in the '03 ALCS, I had Yankee fans laughing at me at work because I was a Sox fan. Some were just front-runners, people I never heard discuss sports before. To them it was somehow fun to give crap to someone whose team never won it all during our lifetimes. Only one Yankee fan -- an actual ballplayer and teammate of mine -- sincerely said he felt sorry for me.

 

'04 was the absolute right-side up reciprocal... and this century we've been living in an alternate universe.

 

great post. and right about the same place i was.

[Bellhorn04]

If you had to choose:

 

16 straight competitive seasons with no rings, no third, 4th or 5th place finishes, 10 playoffs seasons and 2 WS losses.

 

vs

 

16 seasons with 3 last place finishes, 3 third place finishes, no WS losses and 4 WS victories.

 

For me there's just no comparison.

 

The overriding themes of being a Sox fan were disappointment and heartbreak, until 2004.

[notin]

For me there's just no comparison.

 

The overriding themes of being a Sox fan were disappointment and heartbreak, until 2004.

 

Yes, but I’ve seen 4 titles now. It’s not that I’m done, but I do want a reason to watch all season long every year. If the Sox lose in the postseason, I’m usually more bothered by the suddenness of the season ending than by the fact that there will be no parade...

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, but I’ve seen 4 titles now. It’s not that I’m done, but I do want a reason to watch all season long every year. If the Sox lose in the postseason, I’m usually more bothered by the suddenness of the season ending than by the fact that there will be no parade...

 

Well luckily we have an owner who doesn't rest on the laurels, as recent personnel changes have once again confirmed.

[Slasher9]

Yes, but I’ve seen 4 titles now. It’s not that I’m done, but I do want a reason to watch all season long every year. If the Sox lose in the postseason, I’m usually more bothered by the suddenness of the season ending than by the fact that there will be no parade...

 

the difference when Theo and Ben were running the team: at least in september during our last place seasons we go to see highly regarded prospects get brought up and see what our future will look like. with DD running things we got to see gorkys and jhoulys....

[moonslav59]

Yes, but I’ve seen 4 titles now. It’s not that I’m done, but I do want a reason to watch all season long every year. If the Sox lose in the postseason, I’m usually more bothered by the suddenness of the season ending than by the fact that there will be no parade...

 

I still watched every pitch of every Sox game this year, again, and although I didn't enjoy 2019 and the 3 last place seasons not too long ago, I like to see championships every few years.

 

It sucks when we are out of it early, and in 2019 I felt we were out of it much earlier than just about anyone else, but I still watched and enjoyed the offense. As long as I think there is a bright future ahead, I can tolerate bad seasons. To me, what hurt most about 2019, beyond having high hopes to start the year, was the fact that we sucked and our future looked bleak.

 

With Bloom on board, I feel better about the future.

[Bellhorn04]

the difference when Theo and Ben were running the team: at least in september during our last place seasons we go to see highly regarded prospects get brought up and see what our future will look like. with DD running things we got to see gorkys and jhoulys....

 

Ben was the only one with last place seasons though...

[Slasher9]

Ben was the only one with last place seasons though...

 

i should have said "non playoff seasons".

i guess most of Theo's we were in it at least until September. thats why he the GOAT.

[notin]

Ben was the only one with last place seasons though...

 

One of which was a bit unfair, as he inherited a talented mess and forced to hire a talent-less mess to manage them

 

And his final last place team (78 wins) wasn't that much worse than the 2019 team (84 wins)...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

the difference when Theo and Ben were running the team: at least in september during our last place seasons we go to see highly regarded prospects get brought up and see what our future will look like. with DD running things we got to see gorkys and jhoulys....

 

Good point. Those were the days, when teams weren't afraid to call up their best prospects lest they start the clock on years of control.

 

The also-ran decades were more interesting and easier to watch when the Sox were out of it because young guys with star potential always offered hope.

But all the 4A players called up in 2019 just rendered the product hopeless. The only hope I had was to never see Chris Owings in a Sox uni again.