Many have given up on JBJ but what about Benny ?

[Swiharts Ghost]

Is this all Benny is ? He’s a guy we all thought would be amazing .I know Benny is cheap and the guy is a great person but should we be looking to cash out if the price is right ? What would you want for Benny ? Sorry for so many topics just have so many questions this off-season .

[notin]

Nothing.

 

Betts is a serious trade candidate. Bradley is a non-tender or trade candidate. And the Sox have one outfield prospect who might be able to play next year if they rush him.

 

They might need to hold on to at least one outfielder....

[illinoisredsox]

Beni is 25; he had a bad offensive year in 2019 and it was still superior to all but one of JBJ’s full seasons. He has shown that he is willing to change things up when they aren’t going so well (Bradley has said he will not alter his approach no matter what). He also will cost about 1/4 of what Bradley will this year. If Benintendi continues to scuffle for a couple more years like he did this one as his salary rises, then it becomes a different story.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Beni is 25; he had a bad offensive year in 2019 and it was still superior to all but one of JBJ’s full seasons. He has shown that he is willing to change things up when they aren’t going so well (Bradley has said he will not alter his approach no matter what). He also will cost about 1/4 of what Bradley will this year. If Benintendi continues to scuffle for a couple more years like he did this one as his salary rises, then it becomes a different story.

 

Fair points .I guess I’d rather Keep JBJ and see what we could get for Benny .I know JBJ will be the greatest Defensive CF in my lifetime and he drives me insane with his cold streaks .I guess I’m in the JBJ boat again .I wonder what the pitching staff thinks ?

Edited October 22, 2019 by Swiharts Ghost

[illinoisredsox]

Nothing.

 

Betts is a serious trade candidate. Bradley is a non-tender or trade candidate. And the Sox have one outfield prospect who might be able to play next year if they rush him.

 

They might need to hold on to at least one outfielder....

 

Not sure I’d say nothing but it would have to be an overwhelming offer. For example, if the O’s were dumb enough to offer Mancini, I’d strongly consider it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Two reasons not to trade Benny: 1. he's still a few years away from free agency so the exact kind of cost-efficient player needed on a club trying to lower payroll; and 2. he's still young enough with enough tools to rebound and develop into an impact player. Remember, he only played two years in college and basically one total season in the minors before being tabbed the number one prospect in baseball by both Baseball American and MLB.com.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Two reasons not to trade Benny: 1. he's still a few years away from free agency so the exact kind of cost-efficient player needed on a club trying to lower payroll; and 2. he's still young enough with enough tools to rebound and develop into an impact player. Remember, he only played two years in college and basically one total season in the minors before being tabbed the number one prospect in baseball by both Baseball American and MLB.com.

 

Yup this is what I run into every time I broach it .I think you and the Redsox ultimately keep him and it’s safe and smart .

[oldtimer]

Two reasons not to trade Benny: 1. he's still a few years away from free agency so the exact kind of cost-efficient player needed on a club trying to lower payroll; and 2. he's still young enough with enough tools to rebound and develop into an impact player. Remember, he only played two years in college and basically one total season in the minors before being tabbed the number one prospect in baseball by both Baseball American and MLB.com.

 

Another thing is the Sox will be able to give him coaching and he is likely to work closely because he was pretty bad in the second half. Remember, for two weeks he seem to really get it and then he lost it. I partially blame the coaqching for that.

[notin]

Not sure I’d say nothing but it would have to be an overwhelming offer. For example, if the O’s were dumb enough to offer Mancini, I’d strongly consider it.

 

While stupidity happens, it's even stupider to count on it.

 

baseballtradevalues.com gives Bradley a surplus trade value of $1.2 milllion. That same site gives Mancini a surplus trade value of $19.7million. With Bradley having one year left at $10-12mill and Mancini reaching arbitration for the first time this offseason, this deal could not make less sense for the bottom-feeding Orioles. Unless the Red Sox did something equally stupid, like included Dalbec...

[moonslav59]

While stupidity happens, it's even stupider to count on it.

 

baseballtradevalues.com gives Bradley a surplus trade value of $1.2 milllion. That same site gives Mancini a surplus trade value of $19.7million. With Bradley having one year left at $10-12mill and Mancini reaching arbitration for the first time this offseason, this deal could not make less sense for the bottom-feeding Orioles. Unless the Red Sox did something equally stupid, like included Dalbec...

 

I thought the idea was so lop-sided, he meant Beni for Mancini.

[illinoisredsox]

While stupidity happens, it's even stupider to count on it.

 

baseballtradevalues.com gives Bradley a surplus trade value of $1.2 milllion. That same site gives Mancini a surplus trade value of $19.7million. With Bradley having one year left at $10-12mill and Mancini reaching arbitration for the first time this offseason, this deal could not make less sense for the bottom-feeding Orioles. Unless the Red Sox did something equally stupid, like included Dalbec...

 

It was not a serious proposal. Ghost seems hellbent on trading Beni and asked what you/we (collectively) would want for AB. You responded nothing. I merely gave an absurd example of what it might take to change that nothing to something, because for both you and me and 99% of this board, that’s the kind of over the top thing it would take right now.

[notin]

It was not a serious proposal. Ghost seems hellbent on trading Beni and asked what you/we (collectively) would want for AB. You responded nothing. I merely gave an absurd example of what it might take to change that nothing to something, because for both you and me and 99% of this board, that’s the kind of over the top thing it would take right now.

 

I somehow interpreted your proposal to be a trade of Bradley for Mancini. Chalk up my mistake to a temporary bout of complete illiteracy.

 

But the Sox shouldn't trade Benintendi. Especially if Betts and Bradley are not coming back. Even if they get back one OF like Mancini for Benintendi (which is a lopsided deal in favor of Baltimore - NOT an overwhelming offer for Boston), it's not like the Sox have an abundance of outfielders in the minors. The idea of a outfield with Mancini, Cole Sturgeon, and Rusney Castillo is tantamount to screaming "We surrender" loud enough to be heard at both poles simultaneously. And Jarren Duran doesn't change this.

 

And I wouldn't trade Benintendi for Mancini at gunpoint...

[jacksonianmarch]

Beni seems to be the classic “underperforming” player who may need a change of scenery. The boston media hates him for some reason. Maybe they thought they were getting Trout instead of Trot. Beni has been valuable for you, but more is still in there. I don’t deal Beni if I’m in charge of the Sox. He’s mid 20’s, has produced well despite expectations and is entering his prime. I also don’t extend Beni. He’s the guy you want to play out his arbitration and see where the chips fall

[mvp 78]

No decisions to be made until they figure Betts out. You can move Benny if Betts stays (or just keep him since he’s cheap right now).

[Bellhorn04]

No decisions to be made until they figure Betts out. You can move Benny if Betts stays (or just keep him since he’s cheap right now).

 

The first big decision comes from JDM.

[mvp 78]

The first big decision comes from JDM.

 

Replaceable IMO

[Bellhorn04]

Replaceable IMO

 

Right, but if he opts out, that could impact what they do about Mookie.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Shaugnessy wrote today that the Yankees might be in play for JD. Just what they need, another righthanded DH with a below-average glove... If that happens, I hope the Sox don't replace him with the Parrot.

[notin]

Shaugnessy wrote today that the Yankees might be in play for JD. Just what they need, another righthanded DH with a below-average glove... If that happens, I hope the Sox don't replace him with the Parrot.

 

I don't see the Yankees getting JD, unless JD 1) converts to pitcher, and 2) is really, really, really good at it right away.

 

With Stanton, Sanchez, and Andujar, the Yankees have the DH position more than covered.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't see the Yankees getting JD, unless JD 1) converts to pitcher, and 2) is really, really, really good at it right away.

 

With Stanton, Sanchez, and Andujar, the Yankees have the DH position more than covered.

 

Unless we found a taker for Stanton. I don't want us adding to the offense without some financial subtraction. I wouldn't mind changing it up a little bit to be a bit more difficult for RH power pitchers. The last 3 seasons we have gone to the postseason, it has been the RH power pitchers that eat our lunch. This year, it was Verlander game 2 and Cole game 3. The year before it was Porcello (who seemed to have bumped his velo in the POs last year) and Eovaldi. The year before it was Morton, McCullers and Verlander. I get that the Astros guys are pretty good and the sox guys fell off, but it is almost as if Cashman built a team specifically to beat the red sox lefties and didn't account for the right handers elsewhere in the league.

 

Specifically, I would look to move Voit and try to get more left handed. This would push Ford into the starting lineup and if he doesn't cut it, move Andujar there. The lefty OFer would be able to add to Tauchman and Hicks to provide coverage vs RH power pitchers. Judge still plays, Stanton might get squeezed a bit in that scenario, but so be it. The option to flex to a lefty lineup vs power righties and then flex to a righty lineup vs lefties would be very important. Cashman keeps adding offense, but he doesn't add the offense that beats our kryptonite. Time to try

[notin]

Unless we found a taker for Stanton. I don't want us adding to the offense without some financial subtraction. I wouldn't mind changing it up a little bit to be a bit more difficult for RH power pitchers. The last 3 seasons we have gone to the postseason, it has been the RH power pitchers that eat our lunch. This year, it was Verlander game 2 and Cole game 3. The year before it was Porcello (who seemed to have bumped his velo in the POs last year) and Eovaldi. The year before it was Morton, McCullers and Verlander. I get that the Astros guys are pretty good and the sox guys fell off, but it is almost as if Cashman built a team specifically to beat the red sox lefties and didn't account for the right handers elsewhere in the league.

 

Specifically, I would look to move Voit and try to get more left handed. This would push Ford into the starting lineup and if he doesn't cut it, move Andujar there. The lefty OFer would be able to add to Tauchman and Hicks to provide coverage vs RH power pitchers. Judge still plays, Stanton might get squeezed a bit in that scenario, but so be it. The option to flex to a lefty lineup vs power righties and then flex to a righty lineup vs lefties would be very important. Cashman keeps adding offense, but he doesn't add the offense that beats our kryptonite. Time to try

 

So squeeze Stanton to get mre ABs for Tauchman? I think if Tauchman got 600 ABs, you'd wish he didn't.

 

Really the Yankees should add a catcher. Yasmani Grandal would be great, but probably not where they should spend their money. So trade Frazier (plus?) for an actual good catcher. The Cubs have two; start there.

 

But get a catcher, move Andujar to 1B, LeMahieu to 2B, Torres to SS. and leave Urshela at 3B. Stanton-Hicks-Judge in the OF with Tauchman as the fourth. They will probably bring back Garnder, but not for $13mill per, and they will need someone who can play CF, since Hicks has not shown himself to be remarkably durable. Oh, and Sanchez at DH.

 

It's still very right-handed, but also better defensively. And a lot of money has been saved to get a pitcher or two.

 

Or trade Happ or one of the bigger contracts to the Giants for lefty-hitting Brandon Crawford. If the Giants take Happ, they save considerable money and therefore would be more tempted to make the deal. And Crawford, while owed more money than Happ, comes with a significantly lower AAV.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sanchez is just so damn frustrating. He is like the JBJ plus offensively. Is absolutely dominant for a month or two then is ice cold for the other 4 months. His final numbers are always good, but his 1+OPS months seem to outweight his .650OPS months in the counting stats. Also, by season's end, his bat is slow and toast

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sanchez is just so damn frustrating. He is like the JBJ plus offensively. Is absolutely dominant for a month or two then is ice cold for the other 4 months. His final numbers are always good, but his 1+OPS months seem to outweight his .650OPS months in the counting stats. Also, by season's end, his bat is slow and toast

 

Sanchez' catching is the big detriment. It's just not championship caliber. Defense wins titles, a fact that sometimes escapes website evaluators when they rank playoff opponents position-by-position. Sanchez always gets the edge at catcher, purely as a hitter, but ask any pitcher what matter most and they'll never mention a bat or even an arm that guns down runners; it's receiving and game-calling. I think I wrote somewhere else that there's a reason the Yankees always look better vs. the Red Sox when Romine catches.

[moonslav59]

Sanchez' catching is the big detriment. It's just not championship caliber. Defense wins titles, a fact that sometimes escapes website evaluators when they rank playoff opponents position-by-position. Sanchez always gets the edge at catcher, purely as a hitter, but ask any pitcher what matter most and they'll never mention a bat or even an arm that guns down runners; it's receiving and game-calling. I think I wrote somewhere else that there's a reason the Yankees always look better vs. the Red Sox when Romine catches.

 

Watching Suzuki catch for the Nats should be a wake up call for all those wanting an offensive first catcher.

[S5Dewey]

Watching Suzuki catch for the Nats should be a wake up call for all those wanting an offensive first catcher.

 

Four words

 

SOLID. UP. THE. MIDDLE.

[kenmeister]

Am I the only one not panicking about Beni?

 

Age 24 seasons:

Benitendi (2019): .266 batting average, .774 OPS, 13 home runs

Betts (2017): .264 batting average, .803 OPS, 24 home runs

Bogaerts (2017): .273 batting average, .746 OPS, 10 home runs

Bradley Jr (2014): .198 batting average, .531 OPS, 1 home run

JD Martinez (2012): .241 batting average, .685 OPS, 11 home runs

Vazquez (2015): was either injured or demoted that year

Youkillis (2003): hadn't reached the majors yet

 

Even David Ortiz wasn't David Ortiz yet.

Ortiz (2000): .282 batting average, .810 OPS, 10 home runs

 

Maybe age 24 is just hard???

 

They can't all be one of the greats:

Boggs (1982): .349 batting average, .847 OPS, 5 home runs

Lynn (1976): .314 batting average, .835 OPS, 10 home runs

Pedroia (2008): .326 batting average, .823 OPS, 17 home runs

Rice (1977): .320 batting average, .969 OPS, 39 home runs

[oldtimer]

Am I the only one not panicking about Beni?

 

Age 24 seasons:

Benitendi (2019): .266 batting average, .774 OPS, 13 home runs

Betts (2017): .264 batting average, .803 OPS, 24 home runs

Bogaerts (2017): .273 batting average, .746 OPS, 10 home runs

Bradley Jr (2014): .198 batting average, .531 OPS, 1 home run

JD Martinez (2012): .241 batting average, .685 OPS, 11 home runs

Vazquez (2015): was either injured or demoted that year

Youkillis (2003): hadn't reached the majors yet

 

Even David Ortiz wasn't David Ortiz yet.

Ortiz (2000): .282 batting average, .810 OPS, 10 home runs

 

Maybe age 24 is just hard???

 

They can't all be one of the greats:

Boggs (1982): .349 batting average, .847 OPS, 5 home runs

Lynn (1976): .314 batting average, .835 OPS, 10 home runs

Pedroia (2008): .326 batting average, .823 OPS, 17 home runs

Rice (1977): .320 batting average, .969 OPS, 39 home runs

 

I don't think Beni's weight increase impacted his hitting as much as his defense. He does plan to slim down somewhat for next season and that should help his speed.

 

Beni had a good two week period and then lost it in aug and sept. Did the hitting coaches try to work with him? Maybe its like theAA for Beni in that first he had to admit he had a problem, before he believed he needed to make changes. He has taleny, and we fans need patience.

[redsoxrules]

Benny's upside is better than JBJ. With JBJ he's not going to get any better, in fact he'll start to decline here soon.

[notin]

Am I the only one not panicking about Beni?

 

Age 24 seasons:

Benitendi (2019): .266 batting average, .774 OPS, 13 home runs

Betts (2017): .264 batting average, .803 OPS, 24 home runs

Bogaerts (2017): .273 batting average, .746 OPS, 10 home runs

Bradley Jr (2014): .198 batting average, .531 OPS, 1 home run

JD Martinez (2012): .241 batting average, .685 OPS, 11 home runs

Vazquez (2015): was either injured or demoted that year

Youkillis (2003): hadn't reached the majors yet

 

Even David Ortiz wasn't David Ortiz yet.

Ortiz (2000): .282 batting average, .810 OPS, 10 home runs

 

Maybe age 24 is just hard???

 

They can't all be one of the greats:

Boggs (1982): .349 batting average, .847 OPS, 5 home runs

Lynn (1976): .314 batting average, .835 OPS, 10 home runs

Pedroia (2008): .326 batting average, .823 OPS, 17 home runs

Rice (1977): .320 batting average, .969 OPS, 39 home runs

 

Also not panicking about Benintendi here. His failure to become Christian Yeilich overnight is the least of the Sox problems...

[sk7326]

Benny is still good and cheap. Bradley might not stay cheap which is the issue.

 

That Benintendi has not found more power in the juiced happy fun ball reduces his ceiling somewhat. He might not be Betts-Devers sort of foundational, but he's not an issue.