The Pen

[moonslav59]

Also:

 

Red Sox Stats‏ @redsoxstats 25m25 minutes ago

 

The Red Sox bullpen has 1.6 shutdowns to every meltdown, which ranks 16th, their win probability added is 0.86, which ranks 12th, and a 4.12 FIP, which ranks 10th. Middle of the road. Problem is the Yankees, Astros, Rays, Twins, and Guardians have each been considerably better.

 

 

I think we were in a very similar situation last year - middle of the pack.

 

Certainly not as bad as many predicted after the loss of Kimbrel & Kelly.

[moonslav59]

We had a slightly better-than-average pen last year. We lost Kimbrel and Kelly and have had to pin our hopes on the likes of Workman, Walden and Hembree, and yet when our pen fails, some jump on Cora for mismanaging our pen.

[Kimmi]

He's basically saying the pen isn't as bad as some are making it out to be, but it's not quite good enough.

 

I agree that we could use some depth reinforcement.

 

I don't agree with those who say that we need someone like Kimbrel as a closer.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree that we could use some depth reinforcement.

 

I don't agree with those who say that we need someone like Kimbrel as a closer.

 

If cost were no issue I'd like to have Kimbrel, sure, who wouldn't?

 

Obviously cost is a big issue. On top of that, there are some legit performance concerns. When last seen in the 2018 postseason he was a bit scary, and since then he hasn't pitched at all.

[notin]

If cost were no issue I'd like to have Kimbrel, sure, who wouldn't?

 

Obviously cost is a big issue. On top of that, there are some legit performance concerns. When last seen in the 2018 postseason he was a bit scary, and since then he hasn't pitched at all.

 

Not just cost, but also years. Not like Kimbrel has expressed a willingness to take 2 or 3 years...

[SCM33]

If Matt Barnes is so great........why hasnt he been named the closer?

 

Answer......they are hiding him.

[notin]

If Matt Barnes is so great........why hasnt he been named the closer?

 

Answer......they are hiding him.

 

Barnes is far and away the best reliever in the Sox pen and your desperate searches for flaws in his games don’t change that fact...

[SCM33]

Barnes is far and away the best reliever in the Sox pen and your desperate searches for flaws in his games don’t change that fact...

 

Then why isnt he the closer?

 

The best of a s***** bunch doesnt make him good. It just makes him the best of a s***** bunch. He sucks. His numbers look good, but the law of averages will catch up.

[notin]

Then why isnt he the closer?

 

The best of a s***** bunch doesnt make him good. It just makes him the best of a s***** bunch. He sucks. His numbers look good, but the law of averages will catch up.

 

He’s not closing because Cora is using him when the game is actually on the line and against better hitters. Not his fault Ryan Brasier couldn’t hold the lead against the bottom of the worst lineup in baseball

[Thunder]

I say we cut everybody in that GD bullpen, and just call it quits for the season. Forfeit every remaining game

[notin]

I say we cut everybody in that GD bullpen, and just call it quits for the season. Forfeit every remaining game

 

Dombrowski has been hit or miss with this type of bullpen strategy.

 

So far, I think it’s a miss...

[notin]

Then why isnt he the closer?

 

The best of a s***** bunch doesnt make him good. It just makes him the best of a s***** bunch. He sucks. His numbers look good, but the law of averages will catch up.

 

Exactly why do you think Barnes is a bad pitcher? Most of the complaints you’ve made are flat out not true...

[jung]

Then why isnt he the closer?

 

The best of a s***** bunch doesnt make him good. It just makes him the best of a s***** bunch. He sucks. His numbers look good, but the law of averages will catch up.

 

Barnes is the fireman. He is the only fireman we have. Cora is using him to stem the tide. Who else does he have that can stem the tide? Nobody thats who.

 

i still think they are stuck trying some combination of Hembree and Workman closing because at least the start of the 9th is the start of a clean inning. It won't be pretty. But were many of Kimbrel's saves what you would call pretty. He rejected $17.9M for one year from us in a qualifying offer and is still sitting on the sidelines because NOBODY will give him years.

Edited May 30, 2019 by jung

[fxkatt]

Why can't there be an MLB rule that when players are placed on the 60-day IL or are out for the season that their salary cap hit be dropped until their return. Not that the Sox with their 240m roster should need this, but it seems fair for all teams. I guess the signed replacement player would at term's end then have to join or re-join the FA pool or be traded. (On second thought, this really only helps the rich teams who are in the luxury tax brackets, so maybe not such a good idea--yet fair somehow)

[moonslav59]

Exactly why do you think Barnes is a bad pitcher? Most of the complaints you’ve made are flat out not true...

 

Barnes has improved almost every year in the bigs, and his K/9 rate has every year:

 

8.0

8.2

9.6

10.7

14.0

16.2 so far this year

 

WHIP last 5 years:

1.65

1.40

1.22

1.27 (He let up 3 Hits but 6 BBs in 8.2 playoff IP's in '18)

0.97 this year

 

He may not be great, but he is far from "sucky".

[MADSTORK]

Dalbec at age 24 is a borderline bust.

 

Outside of Groome everybody else in the minors should be trade bait

 

Call Koji!

[cp176]

Dombrowski has been hit or miss with this type of bullpen strategy.

 

So far, I think it’s a miss...

 

but it is still tough to criticize DD if he is doing exactly want numerous people have wanted him to do with respect to putting a bullpen together. It kind of seems as though this concept of quantity over quality has been tried once or twice before. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. i like what Barnes has done and for the most part Workman as well. The but for me is that I am a quality as opposed to quantity kind of guy. I do not like the theory of throwing enough s*** at the wall and hoping that something might stick. Although I do not believe that Kimbrel should be signed for anywhere near what he wants, if you want anything that resemble s real quality where do you turn? Our bullpen it appears could use a little more quality as opposed to the hope that springs for some with respect to quantity.

[mvp 78]

If Matt Barnes is so great........why hasnt he been named the closer?

 

Answer......they are hiding him.

 

Lololol

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s not tough to criticize DD for his pen assembly because it’s been DD’s bugaboo throughout his career. I said at the beginning of the year that you cannot go into the year expecting to “lose a little” off a title team by leaving your pen unprepared. I said from the beginning that the game had changed and a bullpen is vital to the success of a team. This was particularly evident because, as the Sox of 2018 were prime examples, most teams now get 10 or more outs from their pen on average every night. The Sox averaged getting 10 outs a night from their pen in 2018 and won because the final 3 outs were usually obtained by a guy who proved he could do it. Now, who knows what the lineup is? DD should have obtained a closer or designated a closer.

 

I legitimately think their approach this year was arrogance. The Sox got arrogant after 2013. They got arrogant again after 2018. DD thought his team to be so superior that he didn’t upgrade them at all, and accepted a major decline in the back end of the pen. It’s biting him in the ass. And with the lux tax being an impediment for further additions, he needs to figure out if there’s a cheap option he can buy with his small collection of prospects

[Slasher9]

if only you were our GM jacsonianmarch....sigh....

[Bellhorn04]

Dalbec at age 24 is a borderline bust.

 

Outside of Groome everybody else in the minors should be trade bait

 

Call Koji!

 

You've crawled back out of the woodwork like the vermin you are.

[jacksonianmarch]

if only you were our GM jacsonianmarch....sigh....

 

DD overplayed the market, struck early and overpaid. His tactics were in stark contrast to what he did with JD the year prior where he waited him out. Eovaldi got WAY more than expected and not shockingly, he sucked and got hurt. Maybe he returns gloriously, but his track record points against it. He went out and spent a bunch on Pearce only to see the 1B/DH market crater even further. He could have waited out the market and grabbed a guy like Gio Gonzalez for a few mil. The Yanks had him and let him go because, at the time, we didn’t have a starting spot for him. He’s now in MIL tearing it up. He’d have been a great find for your squad. Eo could have signed elsewhere and DD could use the savings on a couple pen arms. He didn’t have to get Kimbrel, but a bidding war on Ottavino would have helped. Either way, I’ll take the fact that the Sox have a glaring weakness. They’ve had a few good performances, but nobody who has proven capable of closing games. Barnes has the reputation of being soft when it counts. Brasier isn’t getting it done. Workman has been surprisingly good, but isn’t used in high leverage spots yet. Good teams facing the Sox now need only wait out the starter. This is on Dave

[Bellhorn04]

I legitimately think their approach this year was arrogance. The Sox got arrogant after 2013. They got arrogant again after 2018. DD thought his team to be so superior that he didn’t upgrade them at all, and accepted a major decline in the back end of the pen. It’s biting him in the ass. And with the lux tax being an impediment for further additions, he needs to figure out if there’s a cheap option he can buy with his small collection of prospects

 

He might have been a little arrogant about the pen. But there was nothing much else he could do to upgrade, given the payroll situation and the lack of prospect capital. So overall, I think it's a little disingenuous to call it arrogance.

[Bellhorn04]

DD overplayed the market, struck early and overpaid. His tactics were in stark contrast to what he did with JD the year prior where he waited him out. Eovaldi got WAY more than expected and not shockingly, he sucked and got hurt. Maybe he returns gloriously, but his track record points against it. He went out and spent a bunch on Pearce only to see the 1B/DH market crater even further. He could have waited out the market and grabbed a guy like Gio Gonzalez for a few mil. The Yanks had him and let him go because, at the time, we didn’t have a starting spot for him. He’s now in MIL tearing it up. He’d have been a great find for your squad. Eo could have signed elsewhere and DD could use the savings on a couple pen arms. He didn’t have to get Kimbrel, but a bidding war on Ottavino would have helped. Either way, I’ll take the fact that the Sox have a glaring weakness. They’ve had a few good performances, but nobody who has proven capable of closing games. Barnes has the reputation of being soft when it counts. Brasier isn’t getting it done. Workman has been surprisingly good, but isn’t used in high leverage spots yet. Good teams facing the Sox now need only wait out the starter. This is on Dave

 

There were apparently a lot of teams in on Eovaldi. You wanted the Yankees to sign him, remember? And you also praised the Pearce signing at the time.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[jung]

There were apparently a lot of teams in on Eovaldi. You wanted the Yankees to sign him, remember? And you also praised the Pearce signing at the time.

 

The Sox offered Kimbrel $17.9M for a one year deal as a qualifying offer. He didn't take it and he is still sitting there waiting because nobody will give him years. I can't blame teams for being resistant to years in Kimbrel's case.

[OH FOY]

I think the Draft is next week no team is going to sign him now and lose a pick. He'll get signed after that.

[jacksonianmarch]

There were apparently a lot of teams in on Eovaldi. You wanted the Yankees to sign him, remember? And you also praised the Pearce signing at the time.

 

I am also not the guy doling out the cash here. These guys are supposed to be able to read a market. That is why they are there. DD read the market correctly on JDM. He pounced early for Eo and Pearce and proved to get emotional about something he should have been more aware of

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox offered Kimbrel $17.9M for a one year deal as a qualifying offer. He didn't take it and he is still sitting there waiting because nobody will give him years. I can't blame teams for being resistant to years in Kimbrel's case.

 

Teams didn't want to give him more than what Britton got. By the time he lowered his demands, the teams had already filled their slots

[OH FOY]

Lots of teams still got plenty of money before they hit the Luxury Tax, did you know the Yanks have 30 million in Space before they hit the Luxury Tax.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/tax/

Nobody want to lose a pick, this late, when Draft is around the Corner, and he wont cost you that.

Edited May 30, 2019 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

I am also not the guy doling out the cash here. These guys are supposed to be able to read a market. That is why they are there. DD read the market correctly on JDM. He pounced early for Eo and Pearce and proved to get emotional about something he should have been more aware of

 

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if he didn't sign Eovaldi early, Eovaldi would have been lingering on the market for months like JDM?