The Pen

[Kimmi]

If you want to learn about weight lifting / body building , go to Arnold Schwarzenegger not Arnold Stang . If you want to learn about baseball , go to Alex Rodriguez ( I know , I know ) not Alex Speier .

 

Not necessarily. It depends on what you want to learn about the game.

[Kimmi]

One more thing : This talk about a " crap shoot " sets up a convenient excuse for failure . You see it all the time in the post season . And now you see it when talking about bullpen construction. Should the bullpen fail , you can say " I told you it was a crap shoot . We happened to roll snake eyes , but it was not our fault. These things happen in a crap shoot " .

 

No excuses are necessary.

 

If our team fails to make the playoffs due to our bullpen, then I will have to admit that the 'throw crap against the wall' method did not work this year.

 

FTR, I am extremely surprised that Dombrowski had not signed closer to your liking. I was 100% sure that he would. Color me shocked.

[Kimmi]

@alexspeier

 

Dombrowski: ‘I still believe that pitching the ninth inning is different from pitching the other innings.’ Says Barnes, Brasier clearly have the stuff to close but ‘time will tell’ whether they are comfortable in the ninth.

 

Which makes it even more shocking to me that Dave did not go big on the BP.

[cp176]

Another reason to like Chris Sale to me this morning is his support for Craig Kimbrel. I am simply a fan and because of that there are some things not related to the actual playing of the game that I really don't care too much about. When multi billionaires pretend that paying extra $ in additional taxes is a primary issue for not signing the likes of him and people who constantly clamor for the rich to pay more agree, I want to throw up. Pretending that the money just isn't there and tanking to get any kind of draft choice that may or may not work out is ridiculous. I still hope that Kimbrel comes back to Boston. He deserves better.

[Bellhorn04]

Another reason to like Chris Sale to me this morning is his support for Craig Kimbrel. I am simply a fan and because of that there are some things not related to the actual playing of the game that I really don't care too much about. When multi billionaires pretend that paying extra $ in additional taxes is a primary issue for not signing the likes of him and people who constantly clamor for the rich to pay more agree, I want to throw up. Pretending that the money just isn't there and tanking to get any kind of draft choice that may or may not work out is ridiculous. I still hope that Kimbrel comes back to Boston. He deserves better.

 

I read all Sale's comments about Kimbrel and Pedroia et cetera. They were all bang on.

[cp176]

I read all Sale's comments about Kimbrel and Pedroia et cetera. They were all bang on.

 

He did make some solid points when talking about Pedroia for sure. Who knows right? Sale though is the kind of guy that every team wishes they had. Our local critics want to bring up his injuries, his frailty, or maybe even his clothing likes or dislikes, he is as tough as they come.

[moonslav59]

https://www.rotoworld.com/article/saves-and-steals/bullpen-review-al-east

 

rotoworld's writeup

 

What do they say about the rotations?

[notin]

If you want to learn about weight lifting / body building , go to Arnold Schwarzenegger not Arnold Stang . If you want to learn about baseball , go to Alex Rodriguez ( I know , I know ) not Alex Speier .

 

I have a few exceptions with this.

 

First of all, Arnold Stang to bodybuilding is not remotely equal to Alex Speier to baseball. Speier watches, covers and writes about baseball endlessly. It’s his career. Stang was an nerdy bespectacled actor with a funny voice who did lots of cartoons and had zero connection to bodybuilding except that he never did it. Or if he did, he was not very good.

 

Second, while the gist of the post was “the players are the experts”. What??! You take that stance NOW?? After ripping me multiple times for quoting former closer Mark Wohlers on the subject of closers?!? I was quoting Mark Wohlers, not Mark Wahlberg. Whether or not you agree with Wohlers is one thing, but by your own opinion here, the players should have better insight than us.

 

And third, if you want a former player named Alex as your baseball expert, the correct answer is “Cora”...

Edited February 15, 2019 by notin

[cp176]

I have a few exceptions with this.

 

First of all, Arnold Stang to bodybuilding is not remotely equal to Alex Speier to baseball. Speier watches, covers and writes about baseball endlessly. It’s his career. Stang was an nerdy bespectacled actor with a funny voice who did lots of cartoons and had zero connection to bodybuilding except that he never did it. Or if he did, he was not very good.

 

Second, while the gist of the post was “the players are the experts”. What??! You take that stance NOW?? After ripping me multiple times for quoting former closer Mark Wohlers on the subject of closers?!? I was quoting Mark Wohlers, not Mark Wahlberg. Whether or not you agree with Wohlers is one thing, but by your own opinion here, the players should have better insight than us.

 

And third, if you want a former player named Alex as your baseball expert, the correct answer is “Cora”...

 

Obviously I am butting in here but I'm bored. I have actually come to appreciate Alex Speir and his contributions but in all honesty I know nothing about what his actual background in the game might be. Now, if I did have a deep concern for all of the analytics being used today that directly relate to baseball, I would be willing to bet that I could find someone who had a vast amount of experience in baseball, perhaps even at the professional level who also was extremely competent with all things analytical. Those are the types of people to whom I would listen. There are such things today as the educated athlete.

[Bellhorn04]

IMO Alex Speier doesn't need to have played much baseball to be good at what he does, any more than Dave Dombrowski does.

[mvp 78]

IMO Alex Speier doesn't need to have played much baseball to be good at what he does, any more than Dave Dombrowski does.

 

Hard agree.

[mvp 78]

@jcmccaffrey

 

LeVangie, Pedro, Crockett, Romero, Dombrowski, Cora, Bannister all intently watching RHP Josh Smith throwing live BP at the moment. He’s another guy who could be in the bullpen mix among the non-roster invitees/minor league deal guys like Carson Smith, Erasmo Ramirez, Zach Putnam

 

@jcmccaffrey

 

Another NRI, righty Domingo Tapia throwing now in front of that same group of staff/front office guys

[Jack Flap]

Just a thought (probably an uncalled for one), but it gets tiresome to read these threads when nearly every discussion turns into a debate over whether analytics and stat geeks are ruining the game, whether WAR is any more or less useful than pitcher W-L record, etc. I get that posters here have wildly different opinions on these matters, and sometimes these disagreements will be hashed out, but on the whole it might be best for the sides to agree to disagree, as I don't think either is going to convert the other any time soon (and that's perfectly okay).

 

 

Regarding the 'pen, I'm still hoping for a surprise last-minute addition or two, but as that currently appears unlikely, I think I can live with the current group until further notice. Looks like it's going to be Barnes' and Brasier's time to shine, and a wild card like the old Thornburg re-emerging, or a big step forward from Brewer or one of the other dark horses, would really be a godsend. Feltman, Lakins, Hernandez, and the rest of the arms in the high minors will bear close watching. Should be an interesting ride, to say the least...

[cp176]

IMO Alex Speier doesn't need to have played much baseball to be good at what he does, any more than Dave Dombrowski does.

 

I'm pretty sure that you are not replying to my comment. I also think that he is competent at what he does. My personal preference, if I had an interest in learning more, would be to learn from someone equally as competent with vast experience actually playing the game. I have no clue whether Alex Speier ever played at any level and I'm not criticizing if he didn't. It would be an entirely personal preference. I'm entitled to that. In a way, I just conducted a little experiment. I proved my point to myself I guess.

[cp176]

Just a thought (probably an uncalled for one), but it gets tiresome to read these threads when nearly every discussion turns into a debate over whether analytics and stat geeks are ruining the game, whether WAR is any more or less useful than pitcher W-L record, etc. I get that posters here have wildly different opinions on these matters, and sometimes these disagreements will be hashed out, but on the whole it might be best for the sides to agree to disagree, as I don't think either is going to convert the other any time soon (and that's perfectly okay).

 

 

Regarding the 'pen, I'm still hoping for a surprise last-minute addition or two, but as that currently appears unlikely, I think I can live with the current group until further notice. Looks like it's going to be Barnes' and Brasier's time to shine, and a wild card like the old Thornburg re-emerging, or a big step forward from Brewer or one of the other dark horses, would really be a godsend. Feltman, Lakins, Hernandez, and the rest of the arms in the high minors will bear close watching. Should be an interesting ride, to say the least...

 

Sorry that it gets tiresome for you Jack. Its pretty much the way I feel every time someone takes a ridiculous swipe at DD for helping to create such a successful program. Guess we just have to bear with it all huh.

[Jack Flap]

Sorry that it gets tiresome for you Jack. Its pretty much the way I feel every time someone takes a ridiculous swipe at DD for helping to create such a successful program. Guess we just have to bear with it all huh.

 

I don't know if that was meant for me personally, as I've never been a particularly big DD critic and in fact have defended him quite often...but...FWIW, I would put most "DD wrecked the farm," "My favorite GM can beat up your favorite GM," and "The cliff is coming!" type discussions into the same bucket. Some things can only be discussed so much before they devolve into repetitive horse-beating with nothing new or substantive being introduced. But...that's just my two cents. No offense intended.

[dgalehouse]

Just a thought (probably an uncalled for one), but it gets tiresome to read these threads when nearly every discussion turns into a debate over whether analytics and stat geeks are ruining the game, whether WAR is any more or less useful than pitcher W-L record, etc. I get that posters here have wildly different opinions on these matters, and sometimes these disagreements will be hashed out, but on the whole it might be best for the sides to agree to disagree, as I don't think either is going to convert the other any time soon (and that's perfectly okay).

 

 

Regarding the 'pen, I'm still hoping for a surprise last-minute addition or two, but as that currently appears unlikely, I think I can live with the current group until further notice. Looks like it's going to be Barnes' and Brasier's time to shine, and a wild card like the old Thornburg re-emerging, or a big step forward from Brewer or one of the other dark horses, would really be a godsend. Feltman, Lakins, Hernandez, and the rest of the arms in the high minors will bear close watching. Should be an interesting ride, to say the least...

 

Jack Flap , As far as ending the analytics debate by agreeing to disagree ; Okay , but you could say that about almost any topic. It would kind of defeat the whole purpose of sites like this .

[cp176]

I don't know if that was meant for me personally, as I've never been a particularly big DD critic and in fact have defended him quite often...but...FWIW, I would put most "DD wrecked the farm," "My favorite GM can beat up your favorite GM," and "The cliff is coming!" type discussions into the same bucket. Some things can only be discussed so much before they devolve into repetitive horse-beating with nothing new or substantive being introduced. But...that's just my two cents. No offense intended.

 

Not really intended for you Jack. I feel the same way that you do in many respects. I shudder to even say the word "cliff" here. It has taken on a meaning all of its own. It is kind of what gets done here though. It is kind of like politics for me. Being forced to pick a side and being stereotyped if you don't agree with someone. I don't like it much but there is not much that I can do about it. I still like the forum.

[Bellhorn04]

Not really intended for you Jack. I feel the same way that you do in many respects. I shudder to even say the word "cliff" here. It has taken on a meaning all of its own. It is kind of what gets done here though. It is kind of like politics for me.

 

Exactly right. This stuff does get political.

[dgalehouse]

I have a few exceptions with this.

 

First of all, Arnold Stang to bodybuilding is not remotely equal to Alex Speier to baseball. Speier watches, covers and writes about baseball endlessly. It’s his career. Stang was an nerdy bespectacled actor with a funny voice who did lots of cartoons and had zero connection to bodybuilding except that he never did it. Or if he did, he was not very good.

 

Second, while the gist of the post was “the players are the experts”. What??! You take that stance NOW?? After ripping me multiple times for quoting former closer Mark Wohlers on the subject of closers?!? I was quoting Mark Wohlers, not Mark Wahlberg. Whether or not you agree with Wohlers is one thing, but by your own opinion here, the players should have better insight than us.

 

And third, if you want a former player named Alex as your baseball expert, the correct answer is “Cora”...

I agree that Cora would have been a better " Alex " example. Don't agree with Wohlers and don't really care about his " insight ." As for Arnold Stang ; I don't think he ever really pumped much iron . However , he did make a forgettable flick with Schwarzenegger called " Hercules in New York ." I do think that people who actually do something and do it well have an advantage over those who just basically watch . Anyway , it was really just an ( admittedly lame ) attempt at humor .

[Slasher9]

finally!! we all have come to an agreement that the one guy watching every play and creating UZR is stupid and that robot umps are needed NOW.

i love you guys......

[Bellhorn04]

I do think that people who actually do something and do it well have an advantage over those who just basically watch.

 

OK, now you must answer this question:

 

Does Dave Dombrowski's lack of playing experience impact his work as a team builder?

[dgalehouse]

OK, now you must answer this question:

 

Does Dave Dombrowski's lack of playing experience impact his work as a team builder?

 

I do think that D.D. has done well . I'm sure there are other examples . But I still haven't changed my opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

I do think that D.D. has done well . I'm sure there are other examples . But I still haven't changed my opinion.

 

Yes or no, do you think former players in general would make better heads of baseball ops than Epstein or Dombrowski?

[notin]

I agree that Cora would have been a better " Alex " example. Don't agree with Wohlers and don't really care about his " insight ." As for Arnold Stang ; I don't think he ever really pumped much iron . However , he did make a forgettable flick with Schwarzenegger called " Hercules in New York ." I do think that people who actually do something and do it well have an advantage over those who just basically watch . Anyway , it was really just an ( admittedly lame ) attempt at humor .

 

 

What you regrettably omitted is just how awesome “Hercules in New York” was. At the time, it meant nothing. But once we were all familiar with Schwarzenegger’s thick accent, his dubbed-over voice made that movie so much more enjoyable.

 

Also, baseball. Gotta stay on topic...

[S5Dewey]

@jcmccaffrey

 

LeVangie, Pedro, Crockett, Romero, Dombrowski, Cora, Bannister all intently watching RHP Josh Smith throwing live BP at the moment. He’s another guy who could be in the bullpen mix among the non-roster invitees/minor league deal guys like Carson Smith, Erasmo Ramirez, Zach Putnam

 

@jcmccaffrey

 

Another NRI, righty Domingo Tapia throwing now in front of that same group of staff/front office guys

 

You're killing me here! You're down there watching the workouts and I'm sitting here watching it snow.

[cp176]

Yes or no, do you think former players in general would make better heads of baseball ops than Epstein or Dombrowski?

 

Oh stop that . Now even you are doing it! lol of course former players particularly those with extensive minor league experience would do a better job than Dombrowski- We have been schooled in the following: he has no clue of the importance of having a strong farm - he has always traded away any prospects of value - He knows absolutely nothing about how to build a bullpen.

 

The only gd thing that this bum knows how to do is win consistently.

[dgalehouse]

Yes or no, do you think former players in general would make better heads of baseball ops than Epstein or Dombrowski?

 

No . But using Theo and D.D. sets the bar pretty high. And there are certainly some players who are not very astute about the game . But I do think there are some who would make excellent G.M.s if they were so inclined and put their best efforts into it .

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe

 

Per Alex Cora, the Sox plan to use Steven Wright only as a reliever.

 

For his career, Wright has a 2.99 ERA in 31 relief appearances and 4.00 in 44 starts.

 

But this is more about what they thinks works best given his knee woes.

[notin]

No . But using Theo and D.D. sets the bar pretty high. And there are certainly some players who are not very astute about the game . But I do think there are some who would make excellent G.M.s if they were so inclined and put their best efforts into it .

 

 

Right now, Jerry DiPoto (Seattle Mariners) is the only current GM to have played Major League Baseball. The position used to be held by former players all the time.

 

Now several GMs, including Mike Hazel, Dave Forst and Ross Atkins, played minor league baseball.

 

The dedication to analytical baseball might be one reason so few players hold the position, but skyrocketing MLB salaries could be a factor, too. Maybe as many former players may not need to work anymore as there used to be.