A Realistic View at 2019: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

You know Workman in last 30 games, Workman has pitched 27.1 innings, and has given up only 8 hits. Man, that sounds like Closer stuff to me. Pretty obvious to me.

What you think about that Bellhorn?

 

Workman has definitely moved his way up the reliever chain toward the top. He may be there now.

[OH FOY]

Games I've seen, or heard, Sox have has all different guys pitching the 7, 8, 9th. I that's not the case then I'm sorry. If Cora thinks because of score and importance of the inning is important, its not working.

I feel if a Ballplayer goes to a ballpark, and knows his role, his mindset is different. He know exactly what needs to be done. He gets a routine, he knows how to warm-up, and maybe the batters he's facing, way ahead of time.

What was it, doing the same thing and expecting different results...

Adjustment have to be made quick, and have to see if they work out before its too late. Pretty soon only 90 games left.

Edited June 11, 2019 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

Games I've seen, or heard, Sox have has all different guys pitching the 7, 8, 9th. I that's not the case then I'm sorry.

 

In a save situation Barnes has generally pitched either the 8th or the 9th depending on when the other team's best hitters were due up.

[notin]

Workman has definitely moved his way up the reliever chain toward the top. He may be there now.

 

 

They do seem to be relying less on Brasier...

[mvp 78]

Workman has definitely moved his way up the reliever chain toward the top. He may be there now.

 

You like Workman's BABIP of 137?

[mvp 78]

I prefer Hembree as the new closer just because I'd rather a FB guy come in and try to blow everyone away than a CB guy who is reliant on location and people chasing.

 

Both Hembree and Workman are pitching above their heads right now though. I expect regression for both.

[jung]

In my opinion, before this torture is over, they will have tried virtually EVERYBODY in the closer role.

 

"Thorny back yet....heck throw him in there" will be something we are destined to hear I fear.

 

At least the 9th starts as a clean inning. That is about the only thing that recommends either Work OR Hembree for it. I am not optimistic on that score.

[Bellhorn04]

I prefer Hembree as the new closer just because I'd rather a FB guy come in and try to blow everyone away than a CB guy who is reliant on location and people chasing.

 

Both Hembree and Workman are pitching above their heads right now though. I expect regression for both.

 

Oh, that's good news.

[Elktonnick]

I haven't heard any explanation as to why 13 of Barnes's 17 pitches were curve balls. He has a 98 mph fast ball. Steve Lyons and Manny Delcarmen were both scratching their heads. Even Remy made a comment along similar lines.

[notin]

I haven't heard any explanation as to why 13 of Barnes's 17 pitches were curve balls. He has a 98 mph fast ball. Steve Lyons and Manny Delcarmen were both scratching their heads. Even Remy made a comment along similar lines.

 

 

It’s possible that was the plan all along...

[Maxbialystock]

We seem to be seeing that classic syndrome of a team 'finding ways to lose'.

 

Yup. I call it a lack of confidence. More and more I believe that winning builds confidence and losing undermines it. This season started with lots of losses, the polar opposite of last year with almost all the same guys returning.

 

I also think the loss of confidence mostly infects the pitching and hitting because in both cases the margin of error is small. Thus last night Texas capitalized on Barnes weakness and the Sox did not--to the degree that they should have--capitalize on Kelley giving up 4 hits in the 9th. Also worth noting: Minor gave up that 2 run dinger in the 1st, but ended up going 1 more inning than Sale and giving up no more runs. He threw 109 pitches to Sale's 99.

[moonslav59]

After Beni hit his 2-run job, I was thinking, "Okay, here we go!"

 

Then, the bats went silent... again.

 

Missed opportunities... again.

 

Pen issues... again.

 

We have to break this cycle and quick.

 

I'm not sure there is any easy solution, except to wait it out and hope these guys start playing like themselves instead of some impersonators.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure there is any easy solution, except to wait it out and hope these guys start playing like themselves instead of some impersonators.

 

That's the one and only possible solution.

[Elktonnick]

It’s possible that was the plan all along...

 

If it were, it didn't work obviously. I think it isn't generally considered a sound or a smart move for a pitcher to rely so much on a pitch that isn't his best pitch.

[notin]

That's the one and only possible solution.

 

 

Well, that’s the one and only reasonable solution. Stupidity is always a possibility...

[moonslav59]

Yup. I call it a lack of confidence. More and more I believe that winning builds confidence and losing undermines it. This season started with lots of losses, the polar opposite of last year with almost all the same guys returning.

 

I also think the loss of confidence mostly infects the pitching and hitting because in both cases the margin of error is small. Thus last night Texas capitalized on Barnes weakness and the Sox did not--to the degree that they should have--capitalize on Kelley giving up 4 hits in the 9th. Also worth noting: Minor gave up that 2 run dinger in the 1st, but ended up going 1 more inning than Sale and giving up no more runs. He threw 109 pitches to Sale's 99.

 

I'm not sure lack of confidence is a major issue with this team.I'm thinking maybe they believed in themselves too much and thought things would be easy this year.

 

They worked hard to win as much as they did last year. I'm not sure they are in the same mindset this year.

 

If it is overconfidence, then how many losses do we need before they realize it's not going to be easy and wake the sleeping dragon?

[notin]

If it were, it didn't work obviously. I think it isn't generally considered a sound or a smart move for a pitcher to rely so much on a pitch that isn't his best pitch

 

I’d actually say his curveball is his best pitch...

[mvp 78]

I’d actually say his curveball is his best pitch...

 

Per metrics, it definitely is. He has thrown more CB's this year than FB's for the first time in his career. His FB has been a negative pitch since last year. His velocity is still ok, but his location is terrible.

[moonslav59]

I had high hopes Barnes could be a good closer, and I've not totally given up on the idea, but he shouldn't be our closer, right now.

 

Let's not bash the guy for it. He's been a great set-up man for a while. Yes, great!

 

His important numbers have improved almost every year, especially his K rate.

 

K Rate:

8.0

8.2

9.6

10.7

14.0

16.1 this year!

 

WHIP

1.651

1.395

1.220

1.265

1.139

 

ERA+

80

111

118

120

125

 

He's a keeper-- just not as our closer... yet.

 

[Elktonnick]

Curveball isn't he best pitch if he can't throw it for a strike or if uses it so often that four of the six batters he faces get on.

[notin]

Curveball isn't he best pitch if he can't throw it for a strike or if uses it so often that four of the six batters he faces get on.

 

That just means it wasn’t working that night. That happens, but it doesn’t change that it has been his best pitch for most of his career..,

[cp176]

I had high hopes Barnes could be a good closer, and I've not totally given up on the idea, but he shouldn't be our closer, right now.

 

Let's not bash the guy for it. He's been a great set-up man for a while. Yes, great!

 

His important numbers have improved almost every year, especially his K rate.

 

K Rate:

8.0

8.2

9.6

10.7

14.0

16.1 this year!

 

WHIP

1.651

1.395

1.220

1.265

1.139

 

ERA+

80

111

118

120

125

 

He's a keeper-- just not as our closer... yet.

 

 

I agree with you about Barnes. He has proven to be a very valuable set up guy. The but is that good closers imo are special animals. We had one of the best if not the best playing for us in Kimbrel. In my mind, his value is now obvious. I think that bullpens in general can be built in many different ways but when it comes to the back end not so much. They aren't going to be successful every game but you have to have someone out there that you can count on when the game is on the line.

[moonslav59]

I agree with you about Barnes. He has proven to be a very valuable set up guy. The but is that good closers imo are special animals. We had one of the best if not the best playing for us in Kimbrel. In my mind, his value is now obvious. I think that bullpens in general can be built in many different ways but when it comes to the back end not so much. They aren't going to be successful every game but you have to have someone out there that you can count on when the game is on the line.

 

Any ideas on what to do at this point?

 

Who is available and is a fit, trade-wise, out there?

 

[mvp 78]

Any ideas on what to do at this point?

 

Who is available and is a fit, trade-wise, out there?

 

 

Will Smith. He's a FA after this year and has pitched well as a closer for the s***** Giants.

[moonslav59]

Will Smith. He's a FA after this year and has pitched well as a closer for the s***** Giants.

 

I already mentioned him on another thread, but tell me who you'd offer for him.

 

(Make it realistic.)

[cp176]

Any ideas on what to do at this point?

 

Who is available and is a fit, trade-wise, out there?

 

 

I really don't have any ideas. I don't follow the big picture particularly well.

[moonslav59]

I really don't have any ideas. I don't follow the big picture particularly well.

 

It's hard to judge suggested deals or to make them. There's too many moving parts, of which the two most important parts are probably:

 

1) How much does the opposing GM value our player/prospects offered?

 

2) How much does DD value the players offered and the player he's trying to get?

 

These judgments may be wildly different from our impressions and perspectives, and there's more to it that just these two factors. There's money and budget/tax concerns. There's future consideration, such as years of team control. There's health and age-based projections.

 

Wil Smith would be a great get, but I'm not sure we have the pieces SF would want, and even if we do, is DD prepared to further empty the farm to get him?

 

 

[kenmeister]

Any ideas on what to do at this point?

 

Who is available and is a fit, trade-wise, out there?

 

 

When Eovaldi comes back I'd think long & hard about making him the closer.

[moonslav59]

When Eovaldi comes back I'd think long & hard about making him the closer.

 

I agree, but not for 2020 and beyond.

 

I'm also not sure about our playoff chances without addressing the 5th starter slot, if Eovladi is moved to closer.

[notin]

I already mentioned him on another thread, but tell me who you'd offer for him.

 

(Make it realistic.)

 

Bobby Dalbec for 2.5 years of a struggling albeit talented Mychal Givens...