And the off season begins (2018-19)

[Kimmi]

If durability is so important to the point where a minor league deal is a bad idea, please explain to me again why fans are obsessed with guaranteeing $60mill for a pitcher who has had TJ surgery twice and threw only 111 IP last year and only 235 IP in the last 3 years?

 

I’m not saying the Sox shouldn’t sign Eovaldi. I’m saying if you think durability is the real reason not to give Buchholz a minor league deal, then you’re a hypocrite if you also advocate signing Eovaldi...

 

I really don't understand the angst in giving Clay a minor league deal. There is literally almost no risk involved.

[Kimmi]

So until he gets an actual offer, then he should be on the radar? And he doesn’t have one yet. Should the Red Sox also avoid Eovaldi because some team might offer him 5 years? Maybe Pearce should have been off the radar because Jacko speculated he’d get multi year offers and start 150 games. (For the record, he never got those offers.)

 

The Buchholz-Paranoia s crazy with some people. Every year the reasons get less and less rational as to why a minor league deal is a bad idea. Make him an offer and if he gets a better one, he goes elsewhere. Really not a big deal...

 

You, Sir Notin, are the man.

[Kimmi]

My guess is the Sox have a pretty good idea what Eovaldi's arm looks like right now. They could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time, but if we are going hard for him, like it appears we are, I'm pretty certain they have confidence his arm is fine.

 

Certainly, I worry more about Eovaldi's arm (with 2 TJ surgeries) than say, Porcello's, but I'm trusting DD and his crew on what they see.

 

If we don't get Eovaldi, we'll probably get someone else with a good outlook.

 

I would love Eovaldi back, but not for 4 years.

 

If he can't be re-signed for 3 or fewer year, then I'd look elsewhere.

[notin]

All it takes is for the patient to wave confidentiality, and that is what appears to have happened, since it is in Eovaldi's interest that GMs know more about his arm (since the news is good).

 

Yes. It happened because his agent told him to waive it because his agent knows it’s a legitimate concern. Which was my point...

[notin]

I really don't understand the angst in giving Clay a minor league deal. There is literally almost no risk involved.

 

Exactly. But Clay is not among the Beloved Sox Alumni..

[moonslav59]

I really don't understand the angst in giving Clay a minor league deal. There is literally almost no risk involved.

 

I'm okay with offering him a minor league deal. I just think someone offers him a ML deal with incentives.

 

I'm not sure anyone is dead set against a minor league deal, but counting on him for anything is foolish.

 

[Kimmi]

I'm okay with offering him a minor league deal. I just think someone offers him a ML deal with incentives.

 

I'm not sure anyone is dead set against a minor league deal, but counting on him for anything is foolish.

 

 

There are some posters who are opposed to signing him to a minor league deal.

 

I agree that it would be foolish to count on him for anything. But as a depth piece, he can potentially be very, very good.

[notin]

I'm okay with offering him a minor league deal. I just think someone offers him a ML deal with incentives.

 

I'm not sure anyone is dead set against a minor league deal, but counting on him for anything is foolish.

 

 

If another team offers him a major league deal, I wish him luck there.

[cp176]

And I’m sure he’s a great doctor. Although did you expect him to say “Whoa. Yeah I f***ed that one up.” The really weird part is you’re advocating the Sox NOT do a physical. I mean , if Eovaldi is he healthy, what is the risk?

 

By the way, why is this doctor talking to the media about Eovaldi? Is he exempt from HIPPA laws?

 

notin - come on. It is your idea of the 2 step backward shuffle. I never advocated for anything. You do like to read things in to my comments though. As for HIPPA laws, they mean nothing to me. Now I'll play you - You can discredit the doctor who performed the surgery if you like, I won't. I'm willing to accept his opinion before I do yours although possibly you have some surgical experience in your brilliant background as well. By the way - I know nothing about HIPPA laws. As for the Red Sox, I'm very sure that they will do their due diligence with respect to all things medical. Maybe they will even give you a call and ask for your opinion.

[notin]

notin - come on. It is your idea of the 2 step backward shuffle. I never advocated for anything. You do like to read things in to my comments though. As for HIPPA laws, they mean nothing to me. Now I'll play you - You can discredit the doctor who performed the surgery if you like, I won't. I'm willing to accept his opinion before I do yours although possibly you have some surgical experience in your brilliant background as well. By the way - I know nothing about HIPPA laws. As for the Red Sox, I'm very sure that they will do their due diligence with respect to all things medical. Maybe they will even give you a call and ask for your opinion.

 

I didn’t discredit the doctor. I said the Sox were going to do their due diligence. To which you said I was suggesting the Sox would then be doing “something that was already done.” Did Eovaldi already have his physical with the Sox? Typically that doesn’t happen until terms are agreed upon...

[cp176]

All it takes is for the patient to wave confidentiality, and that is what appears to have happened, since it is in Eovaldi's interest that GMs know more about his arm (since the news is good).

 

Eovaldi having that information released publicly just makes sense. I don't think that he is stupid which he would be if he did not allow this info to be made public. We'll see what happens but I don't see any more reason to be concerned about his arm than I would be about anyone elses arm.

[notin]

Eovaldi having that information released publicly just makes sense. I don't think that he is stupid which he would be if he did not allow this info to be made public. We'll see what happens but I don't see any more reason to be concerned about his arm than I would be about anyone elses arm.

 

There are absolutely more reasons to be concerned about Eovsldi’s arm than most available arms. But that doesn’t mean those other pitchers are not going to get examined as well...

[cp176]

I didn’t discredit the doctor. I said the Sox were going to do their due diligence. To which you said I was suggesting the Sox would then be doing “something that was already done.” Did Eovaldi already have his physical with the Sox? Typically that doesn’t happen until terms are agreed upon...

 

I just must have taken exception to the part where you kind of hinted that the doctor's statement was just some internet quote. He sounds reliable and knowledgeable to me. I have no clue whether the Red Sox have done anything with respect to Eovaldi or not. I'm sure that they will do their due diligence. I would love to see him signed and my opinion is that comparing him with Buchholz with respect to the possibility of future injury is not really much of a comparison. It's ok though that there are differing opinions. I would sign him to 3 and an option at between 12 and 15 yesterday.

[sk7326]

Eovaldi having that information released publicly just makes sense. I don't think that he is stupid which he would be if he did not allow this info to be made public. We'll see what happens but I don't see any more reason to be concerned about his arm than I would be about anyone elses arm.

 

Also I think TJS is not nearly as much of a hindrance than shoulder problems (relative to scaring teams off)

[cp176]

There are absolutely more reasons to be concerned about Eovsldi’s arm than most available arms. But that doesn’t mean those other pitchers are not going to get examined as well...

 

 

There will always be concerns about signing any starting pitcher who has been at it for any length of time. It is always a risk that can certainly turn out bad. I think that Eovaldi would be worth the risk.

[cp176]

Also I think TJS is not nearly as much of a hindrance than shoulder problems (relative to scaring teams off)

 

 

!!! for sure

[notin]

I just must have taken exception to the part where you kind of hinted that the doctor's statement was just some internet quote. He sounds reliable and knowledgeable to me. I have no clue whether the Red Sox have done anything with respect to Eovaldi or not. I'm sure that they will do their due diligence. I would love to see him signed and my opinion is that comparing him with Buchholz with respect to the possibility of future injury is not really much of a comparison. It's ok though that there are differing opinions. I would sign him to 3 and an option at between 12 and 15 yesterday.

 

Well right now it basically is. Eovaldi’s agent is using it in his press releases.

 

And beyond Garrett Richards, Eovaldi might be the riskiest signing on this market. I’m hoping DD takes this (and the Sox Dox recommendations into account when making his offer. But if he limits it to 3 years and some more desperate team goes four, it’s not DD’s fault if Eovaldi goes elsewhere in a case like that...

[notin]

Also I think TJS is not nearly as much of a hindrance than shoulder problems (relative to scaring teams off)

 

 

Multiple TJS is. No one wanted Adam Wainright last time he was available...

[sk7326]

Multiple TJS is. No one wanted Adam Wainright last time he was available...

 

Right - and Wainwright was also 37 and went right back on the shelf after he tried to come back last year. Eovaldi has some actual performance behind him and is 8 years younger, and developed a pitch to change his career.

[Emp9]

The funny thing is, Clay has never even had one TJ surgery. But he really is a man of crystal.

 

As for Eovaldi, some doctor just said his arm is as good as new. That's good enough for me.

 

Considering the way we used our SPers this post season, would it make any sense to see what Buch has on a MiLB contract as a Reliever then? That woud cut down his work load considerably and maybe he stays healthy? He has some nasty ass stuff when he’s healthy. IDK. Just an honest question. I’m really just looking at our budget and hope we re-sign Kelly but we’ll need more. teams need plan B, Plan C, Plan D...

[Emp9]

I'm okay with offering him a minor league deal. I just think someone offers him a ML deal with incentives.

 

I'm not sure anyone is dead set against a minor league deal, but counting on him for anything is foolish.

 

 

This is probably true and I wouldn’t get into a bidding war for him just to be clear. Due to his career long durability/health issues, I would really consider turning him into a RP on a minor league deal if we had anything to do with him.

[moonslav59]

There are some posters who are opposed to signing him to a minor league deal.

 

I agree that it would be foolish to count on him for anything. But as a depth piece, he can potentially be very, very good.

 

IMO, other options provide better chances of contribution, but I'm fine wil as many minor league deals we can get, as long as they don't retard the growth of legitimate prospects.

[moonslav59]

If another team offers him a major league deal, I wish him luck there.

 

You'll be wishing him luck, then.

[Dojji]

If durability is so important to the point where a minor league deal is a bad idea, please explain to me again why fans are obsessed with guaranteeing $60mill for a pitcher who has had TJ surgery twice and threw only 111 IP last year and only 235 IP in the last 3 years?

 

Slow down champ, may want to make sure I'm on the Eovaldi bandwagon before going there.

 

My position on that subject is more nuanced. Instead of knee-jerk wanting to resign Eovaldi, I'm in favor of shaking Eovaldi's hand, thanking him for his execllent service, and then evaluating him on an equal footing compared to other potential free agents.

 

if I had the choice to sign either Eovaldi or Dallas Keuchel, I'd sign Keuchel 15 times out of 10. Nothing personal intended to Eovaldi, Keuchel is just a pitcher that conforms more closely to what I think a good starter looks like.

 

What Eovaldi did in the playoffs for us is amazing, but his career suggests both fragility and undependability and tells me to look elsewhere. At least Keuchel is not fragile.

 

Now if I had the option to bring Eovaldi in out of the bullpen, sign me the heck up, I think he'd make an absolutely perfect closer but he doesn't want to close, he wants to start, and Eovaldi's never done a great job of standing the test of time over a full season as a starter, and he's not likely to begin now. So no thanks. We can do better.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Dojji

[kenmeister]

. (Buchholz is 16 days older than Wright.)

 

Wow! Did not realize that.

 

Okay, okay so these two guys are the brittle twins. You could try the following: Wright & Buchholz platoon a spot in the rotation. One pitches 6 innings, the other 3, and they just alternate from start to start. It could possibly work and keep both healthy.

 

But that said, I'd rather see Johnson & Velazquez do that

[moonslav59]

Top Free Agent RH'd Starters

 

Ranked by MLBTR (overall ranking listed & projected salary)

 

7. Nathan Eovaldi ($60M/4)

14. Charlie Morton ($32M/2)

28. Anibal Sanchez ($22M/2)

29. Matt Harvey ($22M/2)

30. Trevor Cahill ($22M/2)

36. Lance Lynn ($16M/2)

40. Bud Norris ($12M/2)

49. Ervin Santana ($6M/1)

[OH FOY]

Santana for me if you hit, you win, if not, 1 year gamble. Those are the value moves I like.

[Dojji]

Harvey over santana for me

[dgalehouse]

I don't know if Buchholz would be eager to pitch in AAA if someone offered a better deal.

[moonslav59]

Harvey over santana for me

 

Yes, but $11M x 2 vs $6M x 1 makes me cringe.