And the off season begins (2018-19)

[Kimmi]

I really feel like I agree with you on all of this, but I'm okay with trading many prospects, if it means giving us a top chance at winning rings. We won a ring, so it's all vindicated, IMO. That's not to say, we can't argue we went farther than we needed to, or that we might have made better trades than the ones we ended up making. That's part of what this site is all about, IMO.

 

I posted thousands of posts suggesting possible trades over the year- most of them including prospects and top prospects. I've never been for hoarding them, and I've argued that Ben was going to trade many top prospects had he stayed on as GM. Who knows, if he'd have done better or worse. It's a futile argument anyways.

 

To me, the argument is rarely about how good did the prospect we trade end up doing, unless it's like Jeff Bagwell, but more about what else might you have gotten, or could you still be highly competitive had you not traded as many or different prospects.

 

The list of DD's traded prospects is massive, and the jury is still long away from being out on some of them, but here is a list of all he traded as ranked by their highest ranking on soxprospects.com (granted, this is deceiving at times, because players might have reached #5 but were traded after theu slipped way down in the rankings- some we might have DFA'd eventually):

 

1 Yoan Moncada

3 Anderson Espinoza

3 Manuel Margot

5 Jalen Beeks

5 Bryce Brentz

5 Deven Marrero

6 Javier Guerra

7 Luis Basabe

9 Mauricio Dubon

12 Travis Shaw (not a prospect at time of deal)

12 Wendell Rijo

13 Logan Allen

18 Luis Basabe

18 Jamie Callahan

20 Carlos Asuaje

21 Jonathan Aro

 

That's a long list, even if you cross many off the list as irrelevant.

 

I more or less agree with all of this. I am not suggesting that we should hoard our prospects. Part of the reason for having prospects is to trade them. I do think that we went farther than we needed to (Did we really need Sale? LOL) and that we could have made some better deals, but it's a moot point now.

 

I have been with you all along in believing that Ben would have traded some prospects if he had stayed here as GM. I am also 100% convinced we would have made the playoffs each of these years with Ben at the helm.

 

I am curious to see what kind moves the Sox make this year and the next couple of years.

[Kimmi]

Vasquez has next to no value right now.

 

Nonsense.

[sk7326]

This 2018 Sox team was tremendous. Going 6-13 in Swihart's catching games is very telling, despite the small sample size.

 

it's not because of your point

 

Now - Swihart's development path has been screwed up by injuries, and that's what it is. I don't know if he is a starter - even if I still like him. There is enough uncertainty in history to not be a sure thing. The real question is whether the World Series version of Vaszquez can be relied upon. He doesn't have to be good - but a .260/.300/.350 sort is good enough to be a perfectly good starting catcher (when considering his defense). If they only carry 2 catchers Leon would be a reluctant odd man out for me. But I have no issue keeping 3.

[oldtimer]

it's not because of your point

 

Now - Swihart's development path has been screwed up by injuries, and that's what it is. I don't know if he is a starter - even if I still like him. There is enough uncertainty in history to not be a sure thing. The real question is whether the World Series version of Vaszquez can be relied upon. He doesn't have to be good - but a .260/.300/.350 sort is good enough to be a perfectly good starting catcher (when considering his defense). If they only carry 2 catchers Leon would be a reluctant odd man out for me. But I have no issue keeping 3.

 

I don't see how we keep 3 catchers. We have uncertainty at 2nd base and we will likely keep 13 field players. The starters with a backup catcher make 10 and we have Nunez and Holt already and they are needed as infield subs, particularly in view of Pedroia probably only a part time player. If we backup 1st with Pearse, our lineup is set. I suppose we could backup first with Swihart, but his best hitting is from the left side and that does not complement Moreland's strength.

 

Barring any trades from our starting roster (unlikely) we will have 2 cattchers. The real question is Vaz and who?

[notin]

I don't see how we keep 3 catchers. We have uncertainty at 2nd base and we will likely keep 13 field players. The starters with a backup catcher make 10 and we have Nunez and Holt already and they are needed as infield subs, particularly in view of Pedroia probably only a part time player. If we backup 1st with Pearse, our lineup is set. I suppose we could backup first with Swihart, but his best hitting is from the left side and that does not complement Moreland's strength.

 

Barring any trades from our starting roster (unlikely) we will have 2 cattchers. The real question is Vaz and who?

 

I’d recommend Leon. He’s a good defensive catcher whom the pitchers, notably Sale, seem to work well with. And he has zero trade value, since there are always plenty of all glove/no bat catchers on the market.

 

Swihart isn’t the most tradable commodity, but there are more reasons (catcher with versatility and some hiring ability) he might spark some interest. At this point, he’s basically Steven Vogt 2.0. But, hey, Vogt was an All Star once...

[notin]

As for 2b is there any reason to look outside the organization?

 

Holt and Nunez are both back and Esteban Quiroz might deserve a chance. If all of them flip, the Ian Kinslers of the world has are not tough to acquire midseason...

[kenmeister]

As for 2b is there any reason to look outside the organization?

 

Holt and Nunez are both back and Esteban Quiroz might deserve a chance. If all of them flip, the Ian Kinslers of the world has are not tough to acquire midseason...

 

Why doesn’t Lin get consideration for 2B?

[notin]

Why doesn’t Lin get consideration for 2B?

 

Also a possibility, although he is a fairly one-dimensional utility infielder.

 

Lin and Quiroz both have options remaining, which does keep them on the radar...

[Bellhorn04]

Also a possibility, although he is a fairly one-dimensional utility infielder.

 

Lin and Quiroz both have options remaining, which does keep them on the radar...

 

And Marco Hernandez? Oodles of possibilities.

[notin]

And Marco Hernandez? Oodles of possibilities.

 

I’m fading fast on him. But he is still alive...

[Dojji]

Why doesn’t Lin get consideration for 2B?

 

There's justifiable concerns that Lin isn't going to hold up offensively over a full 162. If he does, he's a potential All-Star, but his offensive body of work in the minors leaves that in serious doubt. For most of Lin's minor league career until he took a step forward in 2017, hitting is something that other people did. He's shown much more success in the last 2 years, so maybe he's made some legitimate progress, I guess we'll have to see.

 

And Marco Hernandez? Oodles of possibilities.

 

The injury really set Hernandez back but he's definitely on my radar.

 

Honestly I'm still holding a candle for Pedey. He deserves one lasts chance.

[kenmeister]

Yeah I'm looking at Lin's AAA this past year

 

Games 68

OBP .362

SLUG .448

 

Not too shabby

 

But agreed, maybe Pedroia comes back?

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Holt’s presence at least mitigates any need to spend big on second base

[Dojji]

On that I agree. Way back in the dim past, Brock Holt actually came up through the ranks as a 2B. If we had to play Holt for a full season at a single position, 2B is the position I'd be most comfortable trying that. And with Nunez also in the fold, we may not need to get all that creative to cover the position if needed.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Holt sees the lions share and Nunez is Devers insurance should the kid’s glove go in the tank. Nunez is gonna be a Martin Gonzalez type in 2019. If Pedroia comes back, then bonus. But I think he’s probably done

[notin]

I really don’t consider 2b a position of need, and the potential return of Pedroia could impact the decision of a free agent to come to Boston.

 

Move forward with a starting pitcher, closer, RHH 1b option, and any other potential bullpen help or pitching depth...

[Dojji]

I don't know why people think we need to add a starter. We could always use a bit of depth but we could compete pretty darn well next year with the horses we already have in the stable.

 

It seems to me that the thing to do at starting pitcher is break camp with what we have and then fill any holes that open with midseason trades.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know why people think we need to add a starter. We could always use a bit of depth but we could compete pretty darn well next year with the horses we already have in the stable.

 

It seems to me that the thing to do at starting pitcher is break camp with what we have and then fill any holes that open with midseason trades.

 

In a perfect world, signing Eovaldi for 4/60 or whatever it is seems like a nice move. You're not just doing it for 2019 but for 2020-2022. Sale and Porcello are free agents after 2019.

 

There also may be some health concerns with Sale, I don't think anyone has a clear picture about that.

 

Plus 'it's only money' - no need to trade away any more prospects for a starter.

[Dojji]

I agree I'd like to keep Eovaldi or pick up an equivalent starter if it can be done reasonably, but I think that it's very possible for some combination of Wright, Johnson and Rodriguez to pick up the slack if we don't.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree I'd like to keep Eovaldi or pick up an equivalent starter if it can be done reasonably, but I think that it's very possible for some combination of Wright, Johnson and Rodriguez to pick up the slack if we don't.

 

I like Wright, but he has enormous difficulty staying on the field.

[notin]

I don't know why people think we need to add a starter. We could always use a bit of depth but we could compete pretty darn well next year with the horses we already have in the stable.

 

It seems to me that the thing to do at starting pitcher is break camp with what we have and then fill any holes that open with midseason trades.

 

Rumor has it Eovaldi is top priority this off-season. But if he doesn’t sign, I’m not sure there is a PlanB for starting . It may actually open the door to bring Kimbrel back...

[notin]

I like Wright, but he has enormous difficulty staying on the field.

 

I’m not so high on Johnson.

 

ERod struggles to stay healthy, but certainly has a spot in the rotation when he is...

[moonslav59]

it's not because of your point

 

Now - Swihart's development path has been screwed up by injuries, and that's what it is. I don't know if he is a starter - even if I still like him. There is enough uncertainty in history to not be a sure thing. The real question is whether the World Series version of Vaszquez can be relied upon. He doesn't have to be good - but a .260/.300/.350 sort is good enough to be a perfectly good starting catcher (when considering his defense). If they only carry 2 catchers Leon would be a reluctant odd man out for me. But I have no issue keeping 3.

 

I realize building comfort levels with pitchers, particularly starters, takes time, and Swihart has not been given all that much of a chance with the current staff, but it's hard to move away from a formula that has worked so well.

 

Why mess with this?

 

101-44 in games started by Vaz or Leon (.697).

 

7-10 in other games (.412).

 

[Slasher9]

I realize building comfort levels with pitchers, particularly starters, takes time, and Swihart has not been given all that much of a chance with the current staff, but it's hard to move away from a formula that has worked so well.

 

Why mess with this?

 

101-44 in games started by Vaz or Leon (.697).

 

7-10 in other games (.412).

 

 

there is zero reason to keep swihart. except that his trade value isn't what DD wants it to be. he is a "throw in" right now.

is it worth it to keep him? i dont think so.

to me our only needs are:

SP

RP

it would be nice to have RH power/1b (pearce?)

it would be nice if pedey can come back (no chance)

 

if we nail down some decent RP and have good depth at SP we will go back to back parade.....

book it.

[OH FOY]

I realize building comfort levels with pitchers, particularly starters, takes time, and Swihart has not been given all that much of a chance with the current staff, but it's hard to move away from a formula that has worked so well.

 

Why mess with this?

 

101-44 in games started by Vaz or Leon (.697).

 

7-10 in other games (.412).

 

 

Agree, 100%. More Teams like to tinker, after they have a winning formula. If it's not broke.... We need Eovaldi, if he comes back, at 15, Rick leaves, we save 5, next year. Gamble, but worked here. We got to start thinking Value over High Priced Talent. It can be done if DD and Mr. Cora, has good evaluators, in the background.

[notin]

If the Sox try to stick to the CBA limits, Pearce isn’t likely to come back. If he doesn’t and they need a dirt cheap bench bat with some versatility, Swihartis already onboard.

 

He really is a backend piece in any deal, but at least one the acquiring team might not object to since the risk is zero...

[moonslav59]

there is zero reason to keep swihart. except that his trade value isn't what DD wants it to be. he is a "throw in" right now.

is it worth it to keep him? i dont think so.

to me our only needs are:

SP

RP

it would be nice to have RH power/1b (pearce?)

it would be nice if pedey can come back (no chance)

 

if we nail down some decent RP and have good depth at SP we will go back to back parade.....

book it.

 

Maybe Chavis can replace Pearce/Swihart, but it would be nice to bring Pearce back on a 1 year deal (2 tops).

 

I agree on our top needs with RP'er(s) slightly ahead of a 3/4(/5) starter.

[moonslav59]

If the Sox try to stick to the CBA limits, Pearce isn’t likely to come back. If he doesn’t and they need a dirt cheap bench bat with some versatility, Swihartis already onboard.

 

He really is a backend piece in any deal, but at least one the acquiring team might not object to since the risk is zero...

 

There's zero percent chance we keep Pearce, if we try to get way below the $40M max line. If we try to stay near, we may be able to keep Eovaldi, Kelly and Pearce, but the length of the deals is critical when figuring out how to keep our stars in 2-3 years.

[OH FOY]

What we pay Leon, and Vaz, to the wins in many ways they contributed to, is the Value I'm talking about. Johnny Bench comes around very rare. You Trade Prospects for Realmuto, and although you gain, you lose to, by not really needing it. It becomes a luxury, those Prospects, could be used in other areas of weakness.

Sorry, Blake, if we can move you to improve in other areas, so be it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pearce is probably headed for a 2 yr $15 mil contract. That seems to be the going rate for RH hitting platoon 1b/COF's.