A cringing thought

[dustcover]

I’m still reeling and reveling over last night’s win for the Sox. But I can’t help but think about some of the disastrous ninth inning collapses experienced in years long gone by, exemplified by the ‘86 World Series game 6 and the ‘78 AL East tiebreaker.

 

So it got me to thinking about some of those ‘jinxed’ occurrences and what might have happened if Nunez’s throw had been just a wee bit wider, or if Pearce had not made that great stretch and catch. The ball could well have ended up down the right field line.

 

Obviously, Hechavarria, pinch running for Voit, on second with two outs would have easily scored the tying run. But would Walker, on first, off with the crack of the bat, been able to score the winning run all the way from first, (a la Enos Slaughter’s mad dash in ’46) or would he have been held up at third?

 

Just something to think about as we all wait impatiently for the ALCS to start.

[sk7326]

We executed the most improbable victory in baseball history - on the way to breaking the curse.

We executed a pretty damn improbable victory - on the way to winning it all a second time

 

It's harder for me to think of the cringes anymore - even 2011.

[Bellhorn04]

My most cringing thought was about the A-Rod slap play, what would have happened if the umps didn't get it right.

[notin]

What if Bill Mueller was hitting into a shift?

[Bellhorn04]

What if Bill Mueller was hitting into a shift?

 

Good one. He stroked that ball dead up the middle. Now there'd be somebody there.

[TylerD]

Agreed! Even though we won this series 3-1 it was a hell of a series. I told my girlfriend last night that if the Yankees come back to win this game I don't think we win this series. Was a game of inches last night!

[oldtimer]

What makes me cringe is the thought of Billy Buckner letting a grounder dribble through his legs in game 6 of the 1986 world series. Kimbrel losing last night would have equalled that.

[notin]

What makes me cringe is the thought of Billy Buckner letting a grounder dribble through his legs in game 6 of the 1986 world series. Kimbrel losing last night would have equalled that.

 

I hated the Buckner play when it happened, but some of the jokes were funny...

[dgalehouse]

What makes me cringe is the thought of Billy Buckner letting a grounder dribble through his legs in game 6 of the 1986 world series. Kimbrel losing last night would have equalled that.

 

What people tend to forget is that the lead had already been blown when Buckner made the error. If he makes the play , the Sox might have still won , but we cannot know that.

[notin]

What people tend to forget is that the lead had already been blown when Buckner made the error. If he makes the play , the Sox might have still won , but we cannot know that.

 

It never seems to be remembered that way, but, yes, the tying run came in on a passed ball just before that, and it also put Knight in scoring position...

[devildavid]

What people tend to forget is that the lead had already been blown when Buckner made the error. If he makes the play , the Sox might have still won , but we cannot know that.

 

What some also forget is that Buckner was hobbling badly and was usually replaced defensively by Dave Stapleton when the Sox had a lead at the end of the game. Manager John McNamara got sentimental and wanted Buckner to be in the game for the victory and abandoned his strategy from earlier wins in the series.

[moonslav59]

What some also forget is that Buckner was hobbling badly and was usually replaced defensively by Dave Stapleton when the Sox had a lead at the end of the game. Manager John McNamara got sentimental and wanted Buckner to be in the game for the victory and abandoned his strategy from earlier wins in the series.

 

Yes, and that was always part of the Sox managerial problems-- this overblown need to make the veteran players happy at the expense of what was best for the team.

 

JM thought he was doing Buck a favor by letting him be on the field for the celebration- never thinking he might be sealing his fate as a goat.

 

(Note: I never see Buck as a goat. He was a major reason we got to that series, and I only blame McNamara.)

 

[sk7326]

What people tend to forget is that the lead had already been blown when Buckner made the error. If he makes the play , the Sox might have still won , but we cannot know that.

 

What people REALLY forget is that the Red Sox had a 3 run lead entering the bottom of the 6th inning of Game 7!

[cp176]

It is amazing how all of our rememberers seem to work. Bill buckner was one of my all time favorites.

[moonslav59]

It is amazing how all of our remembers seem to work. Bill Buckner was one of my all time favorites.

 

He's a class act. He didn't deserve the grief he got. He never asked or insisted on being on the field for the final inning.

'

I'm sure he would have enjoyed hobbling out onto the field from the dugout in celebration just as much as from 1B.

[mvp 78]

What some also forget is that Buckner was hobbling badly and was usually replaced defensively by Dave Stapleton when the Sox had a lead at the end of the game. Manager John McNamara got sentimental and wanted Buckner to be in the game for the victory and abandoned his strategy from earlier wins in the series.

 

Literally EVERYONE remembers that part.

[moonslav59]

Literally EVERYONE remembers that part.

 

Even the clowns who threatened his life after the play?

[illinoisredsox]

Yes, and that was always part of the Sox managerial problems-- this overblown need to make the veteran players happy at the expense of what was best for the team.

 

JM thought he was doing Buck a favor by letting him be on the field for the celebration- never thinking he might be sealing his fate as a goat.

 

(Note: I never see Buck as a goat. He was a major reason we got to that series, and I only blame McNamara.)

 

 

Buckner was a goat for the 1986 series but not just because of that play. The boot overshadowed an eminently forgettable series by Buckner, one where he slashed .188/.212/.188/.400 with 1 RBI; he ended 15 innings in 33 PAs. Much was made of Jim Rice failing to drive in a single run, but Rice batted behind Buckner and led off 14 innings; Rice had a good series, slashing .333/.455/.444/.899 and scored 6 runs. He seldom came up with men on base and was pitched around when he did.

 

McNamara not only blew it by leaving Buckner out there in Game 6, bur also by not changing up the batting order once it was obvious Buckner was struggling at the plate.

Edited October 11, 2018 by illinoisredsox

[notin]

Buckner was a goat for the 1986 series but not just because of that play. The boot overshadowed an eminently forgettable series by Buckner, one where he slashed .188/.212/.188/.400 with 1 RBI; he ended 15 innings in 33 PAs. Much was made of Jim Rice failing to drive in a single run, but Rice batted behind Buckner and led off 14 innings; Rice had a good series, slashing .333/.455/.444/.899 and scored 6 runs. He seldom came up with men on base and was pitched around when he did.

 

McNamara not only blew it by leaving Buckner out there in Game 6, bur also by not changing up the batting order once it was obvious Buckner was struggling at the plate.

 

Or by continually starting Buckner in the first place...

[S5Dewey]

If there's one thing that can be said about Sox fans it's that we can hold grudges with the best of them! LOL

[cp176]

He's a class act. He didn't deserve the grief he got. He never asked or insisted on being on the field for the final inning.

'

I'm sure he would have enjoyed hobbling out onto the field from the dugout in celebration just as much as from 1B.

 

He was also one fine baseball player.

[Bellhorn04]

Buckner was a goat for the 1986 series but not just because of that play. The boot overshadowed an eminently forgettable series by Buckner, one where he slashed .188/.212/.188/.400 with 1 RBI; he ended 15 innings in 33 PAs. Much was made of Jim Rice failing to drive in a single run, but Rice batted behind Buckner and led off 14 innings; Rice had a good series, slashing .333/.455/.444/.899 and scored 6 runs. He seldom came up with men on base and was pitched around when he did.

 

McNamara not only blew it by leaving Buckner out there in Game 6, bur also by not changing up the batting order once it was obvious Buckner was struggling at the plate.

 

He also had a golden opportunity to pinch hit for Buckner with the bases loaded against lefty Orosco and Don Baylor available.

[kenmeister]

I’m still reeling and reveling over last night’s win for the Sox. But I can’t help but think about some of the disastrous ninth inning collapses experienced in years long gone by, exemplified by the ‘86 World Series game 6 and the ‘78 AL East tiebreaker.

 

So it got me to thinking about some of those ‘jinxed’ occurrences and what might have happened if Nunez’s throw had been just a wee bit wider, or if Pearce had not made that great stretch and catch. The ball could well have ended up down the right field line.

 

Let's say the umpires reviewed the play and called the runner safe. Now it's bases loaded, still two outs. Very conceivable Kimbrel still gets the next batter and closes out the game. It was not a do-or-die play. Of course if Nunez sailed a wild throw into the dugout that's a different story.

[dannycater]

Exactly....great insightful post on what if Mueller had been hitting into today's shift environment. The fact is the shortstop probably would be waiting for his single up the middle to scoop up and throw Bill out 6-3.

[dannycater]

Buckner was playing on two bad ankles. He barely could walk, let alone play the field. The Sox also lost that series because they couldn't turn to MVP Don Baylor at DH at the New York, or they could have tried to have him at first base. Baylor having to not start hurt the Sox as much as in '75 when the Sox had to play both Cooper and Beniquez because Rice was out for season with a broken wrist courtesy of Vern Ruhle.

[sk7326]

Even the clowns who threatened his life after the play?

 

There are still clowns who complain about ruined summahs after 3 world series in a decade ... so facts aren't going to get in the way for some people.

[dannycater]

Worst Decisions in Sox Baseball History

1. McCarthy turning to Denny Galehouse (rocks) for the 48 AL championship playoff despite having Parnell and Kinder rested.

2. Not sending Dave Stapleton to play 1st as a defensive replacement in Game 6, 1986 WS

3. Selling Ruth to the Yankees, and never properly understanding how important Ruth could be as a full-time hitter

4. Pinch hitting for a cruising Willoughby with nobody on base for then futile-hitting Cecil Cooper in the 8th inning of Game 7, 1975 WS

5. Leaving in Pedro after his expiration date, 2003 ALCS Game 7

6. Bill Lee somehow thinking he get away with another blooper pitch to Tony Perez and giving new life to the Reds in Game 7, 1975 WS

7. McNamara holding a grudge against Sammy Stewart, thus forcing Schiraldi to be called on way too often in 1986 playoffs. Pitched lights out early in WS, but had a shaky performance v. Angels, and then went to pieces late 86 WS.

8. The Sox allowing Ted Williams to play in a meaningless exhibition game v. AL All-Stars right before the 1946 World Series. Williams plunked on elbow, badly bruised, was in constant pain as he hit woeful .200 in Series v. Cards.

9. Not making any effort to re-sign Adrian Beltre after his monster one 2010 season in a Sox jersey after a .321, 28 HR, 102 RBI and his career-best 49 doubles.

[dannycater]

Not resigning Jon Lester long-term, but throwing a boat-load of money to Panda, then Price is No. 10

[notin]

9. Not making any effort to re-sign Adrian Beltre after his monster one 2010 season in a Sox jersey after a .321, 28 HR, 102 RBI and his career-best 49 doubles.

 

But we had to create an opportunity to trade Anthony Rizzo for Adrian Gonzalez.

[notin]

Not resigning Jon Lester long-term, but throwing a boat-load of money to Panda, then Price is No. 10

 

Also, breaking up the late 1970's Sox teams because the incompetent manger couldn't control them to his desires. But hey, Stan Papi!!