Sox starting pitching thread

[kenmeister]

I wasn’t too concerned about our #5 SP slot with our top 4 still healthy, but I am now ( #4 & #5 ) with Erod’s injury. We may have to make a move now. Which sucks. I was hoping Wright (& Pom) would’ve been making better progress than he has. Hopefully the AS break gives us time to reset the rotation and buy us a little time. Velazquez & Beeks need to step up in the meantime. I’d hold off on a BP move (Thornburg’s last 2 appearances were ok), and a 2B/IF move ( between Nunez, Holt, Lin, maybe even Swihart, we can piece something together there). Those could be considered luxury moves when compared to the backend of our rotation. It’s not a red alert yet... but it’s definitely a light shade of orange.

 

I don't think we need to move for a starting pitcher. Johnson, Velazquez, and Beeks are available, and I'm a believer that there's never a wrong time to foster young talent. We have such a poor track record of grooming a starter. And then Wright isn't far from returning as I understand it.

[mvp 78]

I don't think we need to move for a starting pitcher. Johnson, Velazquez, and Beeks are available, and I'm a believer that there's never a wrong time to foster young talent. We have such a poor track record of grooming a starter. And then Wright isn't far from returning as I understand it.

 

Velazquez can't go more than 2-3 innings. He's not a viable starting candidate unless you are piggybacking him with Beeks or Johnson.

[a700hitter]

Velazquez can't go more than 2-3 innings. He's not a viable starting candidate unless you are piggybacking him with Beeks or Johnson.

I think they need to pull back the reigns on Beeks. He clearly can’t handle the majors yet and in each outing his confidence is being destroyed. I think they will need to leave him AAA until he starts dominating at that level.

[mvp 78]

I think they need to pull back the reigns on Beeks. He clearly can’t handle the majors yet and in each outing his confidence is being destroyed. I think they will need to leave him AAA until he starts dominating at that level.

 

He IS already dominating at that level tho? And he's only appeared in 2 games so far.

[a700hitter]

He IS already dominating at that level tho? And he's only appeared in 2 games so far.

Small sample size?

[SoxHop]

He IS already dominating at that level tho? And he's only appeared in 2 games so far.

 

There is no other option right now anyway. He's going to get some starts. He has to sink or swim at some point, might as well be when we already have a post season ticket in our hands already.

[a700hitter]

There is no other option right now anyway. He's going to get some starts. He has to sink or swim at some point, might as well be when we already have a post season ticket in our hands already.

I would want to put the kid in a position where he has a chance of to succeed. I don’t think it will help his development to keep running him out there to crash and burn.

[mvp 78]

https://www.fangraphs.com/wins.aspx?date=1987-08-17&team=Braves&dh=0

 

And he never pitched again.

[Spudboy]

I would want to put the kid in a position where he has a chance of to succeed. I don’t think it will help his development to keep running him out there to crash and burn.

 

Of course this makes sense.

 

However, what other short term options do the Sox have with 40% of the starters on the shelf?

[a700hitter]

https://www.fangraphs.com/wins.aspx?date=1987-08-17&team=Braves&dh=0

 

And he never pitched again.

We should be so lucky.

[kenmeister]

Velazquez can't go more than 2-3 innings. He's not a viable starting candidate unless you are piggybacking him with Beeks or Johnson.

 

My understanding is that starters need to work up to going 5-6 innings, and Velazquez has been working relief so they haven't tried to stretch him out like that. I'm sure given a few weeks of starting he can work up to at least what E-Rod gives us in his typical 5 2/3 outings. Brian Johnson similar; he's not quite at 5 yet but I'm sure he'll be at 5-6 soon if he stays in the rotation.

 

Speaking of E-Rod, he was so dominating in that last start, looked like he was finally going to give us 8 or even 9 innings, and then bam he's on the DL.

[moonslav59]

You and I Moon are going to disagree on this one I'm afraid. The satisfaction of winning a World Series championship is for sure a great thing and i truly appreciate the efforts of all who helped us get them. I think that I am different I guess because honestly it is more about the hunt the chase for a title for me. I have not been spoiled by what this team has done in the past. Every year is different and i enjoy the season as I think that you do from March to as long as we go into the fall. Personally the season represents a life cycle for me in a way. Gives me something to really look forward to daily I guess. There is too much luck involved during the second season for me to worry too much about it. For me it really is all about getting there and then I am absolutely willing to take what happens in the playoff season which I think is far to long. Winning a World Series championship clearly doesn't mean as much to me as it does to most I guess. I don't expect them regardless of how many regular season games we win and I would never hold a GM responsible for not winning one. A good GM puts you in a position to win year after year. I think that is exactly what is happening right now and I am overjoyed by that.

 

I see your point and feel that way a lot myself, but I guess I feel that since the teams assembled before the 2012, 2014 and 2015 seasons looked competitive, although maybe not highly competitive, I wasn't so much in blame the GM mode, when things went south so soon (or not so soon as with 2012).

 

I've said Ben deserves a big chunk of the blame for those 3 horrific seasons, but I guess I view his overall job differently.

 

As for looking forward, to me, that also includes the GM building a farm that will keep us in it every year going forward. I think Ben did a great job in that area, so that helps balance the bad years he was part of.

[moonslav59]

It is never an easy thing for a pitcher to cover first base for sure but it is a lot tougher for a left hander than it is for a righty. Sale's overall fitness level gives him an advantage over most. He is a lot lot lot quicker than the average left hander is getting over there.

 

Great point, and if you watched the play yesterday, ERod was way off the mound towards 3B and leaning that way, when he had to change momentum and run to 1B.

 

Yes, other lefties are able to cover better than ERod and Pom, but it's not an easy thing to do.

 

I hope Cora has been addressing this issue.

[TylerD]

Velazquez can't go more than 2-3 innings. He's not a viable starting candidate unless you are piggybacking him with Beeks or Johnson.

 

I more think Johnson can be starting calibre if he gets enough work in. He looked pretty strong against the Jays. And hopefully Wright can return soon. Poms even if healthy, I am not too confident playing him against a team like the Yankees or Astros in the playoffs. He has looked nothing like the 2017 Poms, but I guess time will tell.

[sk7326]

I more think Johnson can be starting calibre if he gets enough work in. He looked pretty strong against the Jays. And hopefully Wright can return soon. Poms even if healthy, I am not too confident playing him against a team like the Yankees or Astros in the playoffs. He has looked nothing like the 2017 Poms, but I guess time will tell.

 

Johnson's endurance is not the issue - it's whether Cora trusts him to get to that 3rd time through the order. That might happen - but I'm not betting too much on it.

[moonslav59]

Johnson's endurance is not the issue - it's whether Cora trusts him to get to that 3rd time through the order. That might happen - but I'm not betting too much on it.

 

Yesterday, BJ would have made it 5 innings had the guy who homered off him wasn't coming up next.

[Carbo-Diem]

He IS already dominating at that level tho? And he's only appeared in 2 games so far.

 

 

That is correct, he is pretty much dominating AAA. Time to put up or shut up, enough of the babying of the pitcher's psyche. This is the perfect opportunity to put Beeks in the rotation for a four or five start run and see what he's made of. He can't learn from his mistakes if he is yo-yo-ing back and forth.

[sk7326]

Yesterday, BJ would have made it 5 innings had the guy who homered off him wasn't coming up next.

 

Right. Cora has basically managed his starts like playoff games ... see if he can get through 18 batters and then pull the hook strategically. The Johnson-Vasquez tag team has been very useful as a #5.

[SoxHop]

Great point, and if you watched the play yesterday, ERod was way off the mound towards 3B and leaning that way, when he had to change momentum and run to 1B.

 

Yes, other lefties are able to cover better than ERod and Pom, but it's not an easy thing to do.

 

I hope Cora has been addressing this issue.

 

ERods slow anyway. The time before this where he had to cover first, his follow through at the end of the pitch made him do a total 360 before going to the bag.

 

Not everyone is Sale covering first.

[Hitch]

He had a successful year, but his over all record was dogshit. I have said it before. If baseball regarded him so highly as his devotees on this board, he would be a GM somewhere. He took his one year break at Columbia and no one was offering him a GM job.

 

Edit: The market often does hire incompetents, but it never leaves competent high performers on the side lines.

 

And I've asked you for proof that he has gone for GM interviews and not been given the job?

[Spudboy]

lol

[cp176]

Ben brought a WS to the club. He was a success, regardless of what happened the other 3 years.

 

he did help us win a world series. I do not give any GM credit for winning us a world series. If you look at things this way then it has to be acknowledged that he failed to keep us competitive. If you are going to give any one person this kind of credit then you have to assume that they are responsible for the failures as well. I do not look at things this way but if I did there would be no question in my mind but he was a failure over his term. the world series win is the topping on the cake for me. I am much more interested in the overall hunt to get there.

[Hitch]

he did help us win a world series. I do not give any GM credit for winning us a world series. If you look at things this way then it has to be acknowledged that he failed to keep us competitive. If you are going to give any one person this kind of credit then you have to assume that they are responsible for the failures as well. I do not look at things this way but if I did there would be no question in my mind but he was a failure over his term. the world series win is the topping on the cake for me. I am much more interested in the overall hunt to get there.

 

I give him credit for the success and blame for the failures.

 

His overall tenure had plenty of issues and missteps. It also brought us a WS and the best record in baseball.

[a700hitter]

I give him credit for the success and blame for the failures.

 

His overall tenure had plenty of issues and missteps. It also brought us a WS and the best record in baseball.

Plus, he makes the best latte ever served in a Major League front office.

[harmony]

Plus, he makes the best latte ever served in a Major League front office.

Would you switch jobs with Ben Cherington if given the opportunity?

 

Just curious.

Edited July 17, 2018 by harmony

[a700hitter]

Would you switch jobs with Ben Cherington is given the opportunity?

 

Just curious.

I would work for the Red Sox as an usher if given the chance.

 

Edit: I am retired. i don't need the money and just love to be around baseball.

[Hitch]

A World Series AND the best latte? The guy can do it all.

[a700hitter]

A World Series AND the best latte? The guy can do it all.

No one said that he didn't have talents.

[Spudboy]

No one said that he didn't have talents.

 

Pussies drink Lattes.

 

Real men drink Cuban espresso.

[mvp 78]

Pussies drink Lattes.

 

Real men drink Cuban espresso.

 

I thought men drank bulletproof coffee?