Spring Training 2018 Thread

[notin]

I have not studied the metrics - shame on me I guess - but I am pretty sure that when it comes to defense Marrero is currently better than any of the other options. Please do not take this as me advocating for Marreo. I just don't think that you can totally overlook his infield defense.

As for Swihart, I love the guy and truly think he will play a solid role for us this year, but it kind of seems to me that people here think that having him play positions at the ml level that he really has never played before will be simple for him. It won't be.

One last thing - trying to turn Lin into an infielder outfielder is ridiculous.

Our infield could profit from a good dose of defense.

 

I agree Marrero is the best defender of th he five (barely ahead of Lin), but his overall game might be the worst.

 

Really that choice for me is Marrero or Holt. I'm not much of a Holt fan, but he might be better than Marrero...

[Larry Cook]

Watched mookie swing the bat today and there is trouble in paradise. Hopefully it is just timing or maybe he needs to see the eye doctor. Thankfully still plenty of time to work out the bugs.

[a700hitter]

Watched mookie swing the bat today and there is trouble in paradise. Hopefully it is just timing or maybe he needs to see the eye doctor. Thankfully still plenty of time to work out the bugs.

I haven't seen his ABs this spring, but last year he seemed to have problem with pitch recognition. I attributed some of that to the loss of Papi. He schooled the others about the tendencies of pitchers and what they like to throw in certain circumstances. Papi was a master at that.

[cp176]

I agree Marrero is the best defender of th he five (barely ahead of Lin), but his overall game might be the worst.

 

Really that choice for me is Marrero or Holt. I'm not much of a Holt fan, but he might be better than Marrero...

 

It is likely that you will be proven right here. I 'm really glad that none of these guys are going to be much more than small role players on this team. I think that Swihart might play a big role though.

[jacksonianmarch]

Who cares which utility guy breaks camp with the sox. Once Pedroia returns, they’ll be cut free. Nunez as a utility guy will be very useful. Speed, some power, defensive versatility (albeit below average) and also gives the sox the chance to have a real 3b option should Devers prove to be useless defensively

[moonslav59]

Who cares which utility guy breaks camp with the sox. Once Pedroia returns, they’ll be cut free. Nunez as a utility guy will be very useful. Speed, some power, defensive versatility (albeit below average) and also gives the sox the chance to have a real 3b option should Devers prove to be useless defensively

 

While Nunez is better than Devers at 3B, defensively, it's not by a whole lot, so Devers would have to be slumping for Nunez to ever take meaningful PAs away from Devers at 3B.

 

UZR/150 at 3B

 

NUnez -10.5 in 1857 innings

Deevers -12.9 in 579 innings

 

(Note: Nunez is -17.1 at 2B and -18.3 at SS but +16.8 in the OF in just 322 innings though)

 

On who the utility guy is you are right, who cares? However, with Pedey's return not really a certainty, and Nunez needed at several positions as a back-up, it makes sense to keep as many infield options available as possible. Since marrero is the only one out of options, I think he hangs on, until the Pedey return is certain.

Edited February 28, 2018 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

I agree Marrero is the best defender of th he five (barely ahead of Lin), but his overall game might be the worst.

 

Really that choice for me is Marrero or Holt. I'm not much of a Holt fan, but he might be better than Marrero...

 

Exactly how I feel. I'll add that Marrero's real offensive weakness comes only vs LHPs, so if we can avoid having him face lefties by just using him as a late inning defensive replacement and spot starter vs righties, we can minimize his offensive problems.

 

Marrero's splits:

 

.487 vs RHPs

.710 vs LHPs

 

[FredLynn]

Who cares which utility guy breaks camp with the sox. Once Pedroia returns, they’ll be cut free. Nunez as a utility guy will be very useful. Speed, some power, defensive versatility (albeit below average) and also gives the sox the chance to have a real 3b option should Devers prove to be useless defensively

 

One of Nunez's biggest attributes IMO is speed, and I am wondering how much of that he has left given his knee issues. I haven't heard what his diagnosis is (not that we are entitled to it), but I did read a quote from DD that knee pain is something he will have to deal with. Doesn't sound promising.

[FredLynn]

Exactly how I feel. I'll add that Marrero's real offensive weakness comes only vs LHPs, so if we can avoid having him face lefties by just using him as a late inning defensive replacement and spot starter vs righties, we can minimize his offensive problems.

 

Marrero's splits:

 

.487 vs RHPs

.710 vs LHPs

 

 

What am I missing here....he only offensive weakness is against LHPs? He is batting better v LHPs than RHPs. Or more accurately put, Marrero is batting less horrendously against LHPs than RHPs.

[mvp 78]

Exactly how I feel. I'll add that Marrero's real offensive weakness comes only vs LHPs, so if we can avoid having him face lefties by just using him as a late inning defensive replacement and spot starter vs righties, we can minimize his offensive problems.

 

Marrero's splits:

 

.487 vs RHPs

.710 vs LHPs

 

 

SSS

 

When you look at his MiLB numbers, the split isn't so great.

[mvp 78]

Thornburg is throwing off a mound today.

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe

 

Thornburg said he felt better on the mound today than he did at any time in 2016. He had a 2.16 ERA for the Brewers that season over 67 games.

[moonslav59]

@PeteAbe

 

Thornburg said he felt better on the mound today than he did at any time in 2016. He had a 2.16 ERA for the Brewers that season over 67 games.

 

He could be a big difference maker.

[Spudboy]

He could be a big difference maker.

 

Fingers crossed that he can be healthy and contribute this season.

[Spudboy]

I have MLB TV on in the background.

 

It's a San Diego game with Don Orsillo doing play by play.

 

What a treat!

 

Orsillo just ads something to the game for me.

[illinoisredsox]

No he didn’t. Devers did.

 

It was a black hole both offensively and defensively early on. Marrero stabilized it defensively early on; Sox third sackers were on a pace to make something like 100 errors at one point. Marrero at least stopped that, but it was still a lost cause on offense.

 

Devers ended the offensive drought (at the cost of some D) Both did what was asked of them.

[moonslav59]

It was a black hole both offensively and defensively early on. Marrero stabilized it defensively early on; Sox third sackers were on a pace to make something like 100 errors at one point. Marrero at least stopped that, but it was still a lost cause on offense.

 

Devers ended the offensive drought (at the cost of some D) Both did what was asked of them.

 

Well said.

[Kimmi]

He cannot hit the baseball. If it were the size of a beach ball he still could not hit it. His career stats are astoundingly awful: BA: .208, OPS: .568; OPS+: 49. I don't even think Pawtucket would want him. I don't care if his defense is the best in the league, which it is not, he defines the term "black hole", and for a team that struggles offensively-or at least did last year-he is as useless as an appendix.

 

I'm not saying that he deserves a spot on our roster, I was just pointing out that at a time last season when we were reeling at 3B defensively, he came in and calmed things down at that position. It was a big lift to the pitchers, IMO.

[Kimmi]

We don’t know if he can really do that though.

 

No, we don't know yet. By the same token, we don't really know if he can even play well enough to deserve a spot on the team. I think he deserves a good look, so I hope the Sox don't decide to trade him after ST.

[Kimmi]

No he didn’t. Devers did.

 

No, Marrero did before Devers was called him. He didn't provide much offense, but I'm talking defensively, which was much needed when Marrero was called up.

[Nick]

I would love to see a stat that would adjust errors, plus or minus by unearned runs given up.

 

Not all errors are equal.

 

What if Devers made 10 errors and no runs scored?

 

Again, a two out error follwed by strike out makes the error insignificant.

 

Update....I divided total errors by unearned runs for each team to come up with true 'impact' of each error.

 

Interesting that Houston Astros committed 99 errors but only gave up 38 unearned run for a ratio of 2.61. That was by far the best in the league. Twins had the lowest ratio (their errors lead to more runs, thus higher unearned runs) of 1.39, committed 78 errors but gave up 56 unearned runs.

 

So the Astros committed 21 more errors than the Twins but gave up fewer unearned runs. So much for Twins having 'better' defense.

Red Sox cam in 8th at 1.84, thus our errors did not lead to unearned runs as much as other teams for 2017 regular season.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Nick

[FredLynn]

Well said.

 

It would be more accurate to say that both players did what they were capable of doing. I am sure that Devers was "asked" to play better defense and that Marrero was "asked" to hit the baseball.

[FredLynn]

I'm not saying that he deserves a spot on our roster, I was just pointing out that at a time last season when we were reeling at 3B defensively, he came in and calmed things down at that position. It was a big lift to the pitchers, IMO.

 

I can buy that. I also think that Devers is going to be much improved at 3B defensively this year....of course, he really has only one direction to go, which is up. I read somewhere that Mike Lowell was in camp helping with his footwork and overall defense. That has to help a bit.

[Kimmi]

I would love to see a stat that would adjust errors, plus or minus by unearned runs given up.

 

Not all errors are equal.

 

What if Devers made 10 errors and no runs scored?

 

Again, a two out error follwed by strike out makes the error insignificant.

 

Update....I divided total errors by unearned runs for each team to come up with true 'impact' of each error.

 

Interesting that Houston Astros committed 99 errors but only gave up 38 unearned run for a ratio of 2.61. That was by far the best in the league. Twins had the lowest ratio (their errors lead to more runs, thus higher unearned runs) of 1.39, committed 78 errors but gave up 56 unearned runs.

 

So the Astros committed 21 more errors than the Twins but gave up fewer unearned runs.

 

Red Sox cam in 8th at 1.84, thus our errors did not lead to unearned runs as much as other teams for 2017 regular season.

 

I am thinking that Defensive Runs Earned (DRS) is more or less what you're talking about.

 

DRS is not based solely on errors though.

[Kimmi]

I can buy that. I also think that Devers is going to be much improved at 3B defensively this year....of course, he really has only one direction to go, which is up. I read somewhere that Mike Lowell was in camp helping with his footwork and overall defense. That has to help a bit.

 

Yup, and Lowell has had some very favorable things to say about Devers. He won't transform overnight, but I have to think we'll see an improvement defensively.

[fxkatt]

As to counting errors differently... because there is little or no consequence doesn't change the fact of the error. The starting pitcher has to throw 6-7 more pitches for one, and possible many more, and to boot pitch under more pressure. The defense is under added pressure etc.

 

To me an interception in football is an interception except on the rare occasion it's as good as a punt. Turn overs in the NBA are always a nemesis.

[Nick]

I am thinking that Defensive Runs Earned (DRS) is more or less what you're talking about.

 

DRS is not based solely on errors though.

 

I knew that you would know some 'stat' out there. Thanks

[Nick]

As to counting errors differently... because there is little or no consequence doesn't change the fact of the error. The starting pitcher has to throw 6-7 more pitches for one, and possible many more, and to boot pitch under more pressure. The defense is under added pressure etc.

 

To me an interception in football is an interception except on the rare occasion it's as good as a punt. Turn overs in the NBA are always a nemesis.

 

I see your point. But I'm still struck by Astros committing 21 more errors than the Twins but giving up 18 less unearned runs. Maybe it just took one pitch to induce double plays.

[mvp 78]

@jcmccaffrey

 

In his fifth Grapefruit League game, Swihart is now 6-for-13 with four doubles and a homer.

 

Bye Sandy.

[moonslav59]

@jcmccaffrey

 

In his fifth Grapefruit League game, Swihart is now 6-for-13 with four doubles and a homer.

 

Bye Sandy.

 

It need not be an either - or.