The Depth Argument

[jad]

I guess I never quite understand why, when you have more money than you can ever spend, you would conduct your life solely on the basis of getting more of it. If you're miserable as a result, then you deserve to be.

[a700hitter]

It's not "nonsense". It's just very unlikely.

 

It is a true statement that the ONLY CHANCE he leaves Boston is of he wants to leave the city. The point here is that he certainly won't be doing it to get more money, since we all agree that is not going to happen period.

 

The "whine and trade" scenario is provaly more likely to happen but less likely to work. Since no one will take that contract, and hopefully Dombrowski isn't stupid enough to pay him to pitch elsewhere. (And getting a good return is also not likely in this case. ) So does this lead to phantom DL stints like Sandoval got?

If he can’t get $30 million elsewhere, he will not be leaving. Price is not a happy go lucky personality. He had a nasty disposition when he was on Tampa. If he likes his teammates, he is not going to let the media chase him off $154 million. The fans aren’t giving him a hard time. He probably has a very nice home on a welcoming community. The he hates Boston stuff is overblown. He has disdain for the media, but he is not going to turn his back on that contract because of them. He will just continue to give them a hard time.

 

Leaving for less money is nonsense. No one hated Boston more than Manny, and the team offered several times to tear up his contract to let him walk. He never walked. These guys don’t turn their backs on that kind of money.

[a700hitter]

Jeez, let's not start comparing Price to Panda...

Mentioning Price and Panda in the same breath highlights the nonsensical rabbit hole people are willing to go down in hopes that Price will leave. He’s not leaving for leads than he is has remaining on his contract. Maybe he’d take $2 million less a year to account for a more favorable tax venue and cheaper cost of living. That would take him down to $28-29 million/ year. Does anyone think he willl get that with his elbow history?

[moonslav59]

If you want to replace him with a lesser pitcher, we will have a lesser team.

 

We're going to be a lesser team when we start deciding who to keep and who we don't replace "in kind".

 

I agree with your argument that if Price has a great year and is worth his market value, we don't gain anything by seeing him walk, but he is getting older, and the chances he does not live up to his value will be higher after this year than it was when we signed him.

 

Even if Price wins the Cy Young this year, I'm not sure it would hurt us, if he left. $31M would help us keep other players we are likely to lose, like keeping Pom & Kimbrel and maybe have enough to sign a lesser starter. Yes, we lose strength by replacing Price with a lesser pitcher, but maybe we get to keep Kimbrel instead of praying Smith or Thornburg step it up.

[moonslav59]

There is a slight chance Price leaves believing he'll make the same or more money elsewhere, and since he theoretically hates Boston, might risk making slightly less, if his agents projections end up falling short.

 

What happens, if he ends up getting much less than he and his agent thought, like many free agents did this year?

 

Could that be a case where, we made out by seeing him opt out? Is it that nonsensical to think that could happen?

 

It happened to several free agents this year, who turned down initial offers thinking they'd make more later.

[a700hitter]

There is a slight chance Price leaves believing he'll make the same or more money elsewhere, and since he theoretically hates Boston, might risk making slightly less, if his agents projections end up falling short.

 

What happens, if he ends up getting much less than he and his agent thought, like many free agents did this year?

 

Could that be a case where, we made out by seeing him opt out? Is it that nonsensical to think that could happen?

 

It happened to several free agents this year, who turned down initial offers thinking they'd make more later.

A stupid decision is always a possibility. There are numerous instances of agents and players misjudging the market. That could happen,and it cou;d play to the advantage of the Red Sox, but he will not be consciously leaving for less money. That part is nonsense.

[Spudboy]

I guess I never quite understand why, when you have more money than you can ever spend, you would conduct your life solely on the basis of getting more of it. If you're miserable as a result, then you deserve to be.

 

Boom.

 

And many of these players are what they consider Christians.

 

Greed and Gluttony are sins from what the bible says.

[Spudboy]

If he can’t get $30 million elsewhere, he will not be leaving. Price is not a happy go lucky personality. He had a nasty disposition when he was on Tampa. If he likes his teammates, he is not going to let the media chase him off $154 million. The fans aren’t giving him a hard time. He probably has a very nice home on a welcoming community. The he hates Boston stuff is overblown. He has disdain for the media, but he is not going to turn his back on that contract because of them. He will just continue to give them a hard time.

 

Leaving for less money is nonsense. No one hated Boston more than Manny, and the team offered several times to tear up his contract to let him walk. He never walked. These guys don’t turn their backs on that kind of money.

 

I could not agree more. Although some Boston fans s*** on him. Those are mostly the mouth breathers that listen to and call into radio programs hosted by immature baiting twits.

 

Price is not opting out. You don't walk away from money like that unless your long term health is threatened or something huge like that.

 

Boy people can be thick.

[moonslav59]

A stupid decision is always a possibility. There are numerous instances of agents and players misjudging the market. That could happen,and it cou;d play to the advantage of the Red Sox, but he will not be consciously leaving for less money. That part is nonsense.

 

I agree. I doubt he'd even take a chance on losing money, even if his agent told him he'd "probably make the same or more elsewhere."

 

If he truly does hate Boston so much that he'd take $500K less a year to go elsewhere, he probably still wouldn't risk it.

 

[notin]

If he can’t get $30 million elsewhere, he will not be leaving. Price is not a happy go lucky personality. He had a nasty disposition when he was on Tampa. If he likes his teammates, he is not going to let the media chase him off $154 million. The fans aren’t giving him a hard time. He probably has a very nice home on a welcoming community. The he hates Boston stuff is overblown. He has disdain for the media, but he is not going to turn his back on that contract because of them. He will just continue to give them a hard time.

 

Leaving for less money is nonsense. No one hated Boston more than Manny, and the team offered several times to tear up his contract to let him walk. He never walked. These guys don’t turn their backs on that kind of money.

 

You do realize that I agree wIth you and he is going to be in Boston. I never said he was opting out. In fact, I don't even think a market mis-read is likely at this point, given how everything played out this past off-season. Price 's agent is likely to advise him to stay even if he wins the Cy Young. No one is going to give him that amount of money at his age and with questions around his elbow.

 

So, since we all know he isn't opting out to get a bigger and better deal, and his agent isn't going to advise it and cost his client tens of millions of dollars, what chances does that leave - as miniscule as they might be - that Price opts out?

 

If you had to select the most likely reason Price exercises that clause, what do you think it would be?

Edited April 2, 2018 by notin

[Emp9]

You do realize that I agree wIth you and he is going to be in Boston. I never said he was opting out. In fact, I don't even think a market mis-read is likely at this point, given how everything played out this past off-season. Price 's agent is likely to advise him to stay even if he wins the Cy Young. No one is going to give him that amount of money at his age and with questions around his elbow.

 

So, since we all know he isn't opting out to get a bigger and better deal, and his agent isn't going to advise it and cost his client tens of millions of dollars, what chances does that leave - as miniscule as they might be - that Price opts out?

 

If you had to select the most likely reason Price exercises that clause, what do you think it would be?

 

Eckersley meeting Price’s mother for the first time in the clubhouse and is later overheard saying “yuck”❓

[jacksonianmarch]

I guess I never quite understand why, when you have more money than you can ever spend, you would conduct your life solely on the basis of getting more of it. If you're miserable as a result, then you deserve to be.

 

I don’t fault anyone for maximizing their financial return. In baseball, you’ve got a short window to make all the money you’re ever going to make. Yes, he’s making more than 0.001% of Americans do, but the trove of cash he is earning could generate enough interest income to keep generations of Price’s comfortable. Or, maybe he has business ventures. Who knows. Don’t hate on a guy who is just maximizing his value for a special skill he possesses.

[Bellhorn04]

eckersley meeting price’s mother for the first time in the clubhouse and is later overheard saying “yuck”❓

 

lol

[moonslav59]

Our bench has started the season 0 for 16 with 3 BBs. (I'm not counting Nunez as a sub for right now.)

 

[jad]

I don’t fault anyone for maximizing their financial return. In baseball, you’ve got a short window to make all the money you’re ever going to make. Yes, he’s making more than 0.001% of Americans do, but the trove of cash he is earning could generate enough interest income to keep generations of Price’s comfortable. Or, maybe he has business ventures. Who knows. Don’t hate on a guy who is just maximizing his value for a special skill he possesses.

 

Hating? I don't consider it hate. (Maybe I hold them in contempt for valuing money more than anything else.) Most of us could have made far more money than we have in life. Pro athletes (like many others) seem to confuse how much money they make with their value as human beings--and if they do that, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

[mvp 78]

Our bench has started the season 0 for 16 with 3 BBs. (I'm not counting Nunez as a sub for right now.)

 

 

If they are carrying 3 catchers, why not pinch hit for your catcher at the end of a game?

[notin]

Eckersley meeting Price’s mother for the first time in the clubhouse and is later overheard saying “yuck”❓

 

That's another possibility. Just a less likely one...

[moonslav59]

If they are carrying 3 catchers, why not pinch hit for your catcher at the end of a game?

 

That is one of the major advantages of carrying 3 catchers, especially on a team with weak hitting catchers.

[Bellhorn04]

If they are carrying 3 catchers, why not pinch hit for your catcher at the end of a game?

 

If you're behind. If you're ahead it's defense first methinks.

[S5Dewey]

If you're behind. If you're ahead it's defense first methinks.

 

Besides, Vaz had been hitting the ball well all day. He just had the misfortune of hitting it right at someone.

[moonslav59]

If you're behind. If you're ahead it's defense first methinks.

 

We could PH for Leon and bring in Vaz and not lose anything on defense.

 

We could PH for Vaz and bring in Leon- same thing.

 

Having 3 catchers allows the best of both worlds.

[moonslav59]

Besides, Vaz had been hitting the ball well all day. He just had the misfortune of hitting it right at someone.

 

Yes, I wouldn't be to quick to PH for Vaz or any other hot catcher. (Yes, I believe in hot and cold streaks.)

[Emp9]

That's another possibility. Just a less likely one...

 

Don’t discount ‘The Eck Factor’

[mvp 78]

If you're behind. If you're ahead it's defense first methinks.

 

Aren't Leon and Vaz equally good? I'm not saying to put Swihart in at C.

[Bellhorn04]

Aren't Leon and Vaz equally good? I'm not saying to put Swihart in at C.

 

I think managers generally like to leave the catcher in for the whole game as much as possible. So the other guy gets a full rest etc.

[cp176]

I think managers generally like to leave the catcher in for the whole game as much as possible. So the other guy gets a full rest etc.

 

Good observation - I think that for the most part you are right about that call. It's a damn demanding job camping out behind home plate day in and day out.

[moonslav59]

Good observation - I think that for the most part you are right about that call. It's a damn demanding job camping out behind home plate day in and day out.

 

With Leon likely to just catch one out of 5 games, and Swihart basically just our emergency catcher, I think PH'ing can be done more often.

 

Plus, if Vaz is going to catch 4 out of 5 games, he could use an inning off here and there.

[Kimmi]

No, he wouldn’t. He’d opt in then throw a fit to where he’d have to be traded. These players aren’t dumb. The market re-set a bit and with Darvish getting low $20 mil per year and Price coming off a mediocre 2016 and an elbow injury in 2017, he’s got no shot at getting more than the 4 yrs $124 mil he’s got coming to him. The idea of him opting out is entirely preposterous. Price has that there in the event that he won 3 CY with Boston and then he could get more, but we clearly know how the first two seasons went

 

I agree that he won't get an offer for more money. IMO, if Price is truly miserable, he would be willing to take less money.

[Kimmi]

Sort of the point.

 

Price isn't getting the same money anywhere else. So the only chance of him opting out is if he values leaving Boston more than money. Certainly he can try to get out other ways, like demanding a trade (which actually is very unlikely to work). But the only way he opts out at this point is poor of desperation. I don't expect it to happen. ..

 

This is my thinking as well.

[Kimmi]

If he can’t get $30 million elsewhere, he will not be leaving. Price is not a happy go lucky personality. He had a nasty disposition when he was on Tampa. If he likes his teammates, he is not going to let the media chase him off $154 million. The fans aren’t giving him a hard time. He probably has a very nice home on a welcoming community. The he hates Boston stuff is overblown. He has disdain for the media, but he is not going to turn his back on that contract because of them. He will just continue to give them a hard time.

 

Leaving for less money is nonsense. No one hated Boston more than Manny, and the team offered several times to tear up his contract to let him walk. He never walked. These guys don’t turn their backs on that kind of money.

 

I don't disagree that the "he hates Boston" is overblown. In which case, he wouldn't opt out.

 

If he is truly unhappy, I think he would opt out.

 

If I were miserable in my job, I'd take a job for less money if it meant being happy.

 

Call me crazy.