Fire alex cora

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's interesting, because that's one of the reasons I DON'T want him back. I've said before that it's no guarantee either side will want to reunite, and I see hiring back as a horrible PR move for the Red Sox FO, and I personally will lose respect for them if they rehire him. Cheaters shouldn't be rewarded, even if they apologize. At least not yet. I want a longer probationary period. 1 year to me, a season that is washed out, is just a slap on the wrist.

 

I predict in the future -- as wounds heal, confessions are heard and memoirs are published -- public opinion of Cora and the "scandal" will shift. Especially when real crimes by athletes are bound to be committed that dominate the news. Maybe OJ will even find the killers.

 

In concept, what the entire Houston organization did was an extension of what many -- probably most, if not all -- MLB analytics departments did, are doing, or will do: and that is, seek to find an edge... in a sport where stealing signs has always been an accepted part of the game.

 

What was different about the Astros' system -- and that is definitely a pun -- is 1. They were caught on video, 2. They won, and 3. The MLB was forced to make an example of them... mainly because of the national story that basically rubbed their success in the faces of other teams who weren't as good at succeeding.

[Thunder]

I predict in the future -- as wounds heal, confessions are heard and memoirs are published -- public opinion of Cora and the "scandal" will shift. Especially when real crimes by athletes are bound to be committed that dominate the news. Maybe OJ will even find the killers.

 

In concept, what the entire Houston organization did was an extension of what many -- probably most, if not all -- MLB analytics departments did, are doing, or will do: and that is, seek to find an edge... in a sport where stealing signs has always been an accepted part of the game.

 

What was different about the Astros' system -- and that is definitely a pun -- is 1. They were caught on video, 2. They won, and 3. The MLB was forced to make an example of them... mainly because of the national story that basically rubbed their success in the faces of other teams who weren't as good at succeeding.

 

Just because everybody else is doing it doesn't mean it's right

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Just because everybody else is doing it doesn't mean it's right

 

Stealing signs on both offense and defense has always been ingrained in the culture of baseball. It's not only condoned, but encouraged by the management of every team, from at least the high school level on up.

 

The MLB brought this on itself by installing video for live in-game use in every clubhouse. That's as practical as handing the keys to your house to burglars and saying, "You can take whatever you want, as long as you promise not to touch the jewelry box full of gold and silver on the dresser."

[dgalehouse]

Human nature : We tend to discount, excuse or soft pedal bad behavior by those who we otherwise like .

[Bellhorn04]

Human nature : We tend to discount, excuse or soft pedal bad behavior by those who we otherwise like .

 

True enough. My position here is just that Cora's punishment was sufficient for what he did.

[Thunder]

True enough. My position here is just that Cora's punishment was sufficient for what he did.

 

I can agree with that. I just don't want him back and frankly, I don't understand why most people assume that he will automatically be back. Who says we want him back? Who says he wants to come back? Who says other teams don't want him? Too many moving parts

[jad]

Just because everybody else is doing it doesn't mean it's right

 

In sports, yes it does.

[dgalehouse]

True enough. My position here is just that Cora's punishment was sufficient for what he did.

 

I agree with that . A one year suspension seems fair .

[Thunder]

In sports, yes it does.

 

Colleges paying/bribing athletes to come play for them? Baseball players taking steroids? Professional cyclists doping? Russian Olympic athletes doping? Are all of those "right" to you?

 

I get that peer pressure makes it hard to resist, and even threatens your livelihood since it raises the level of competition unfairly, but you're just as much in the wrong as anybody else if you do it. It takes a certain kind of individual to sacrifice the money, performance, and fame now to take the high road, and let the truth come out later on.

[jad]

Colleges paying/bribing athletes to come play for them? Baseball players taking steroids? Professional cyclists doping? Russian Olympic athletes doping? Are all of those "right" to you?

 

I get that peer pressure makes it hard to resist, and even threatens your livelihood since it raises the level of competition unfairly, but you're just as much in the wrong as anybody else if you do it. It takes a certain kind of individual to sacrifice the money, performance, and fame now to take the high road, and let the truth come out later on.

 

Yup. It's sports, not life. If "EVERYONE" is doing it (that's what you said, not that "SOME" people are doing it), then it's not cheating.

[Thunder]

Yup. It's sports, not life. If "EVERYONE" is doing it (that's what you said, not that "SOME" people are doing it), then it's not cheating.

 

Well some of the examples I mentioned had criminal consequences, and at the very least ruined and ended careers. You'd seriously be okay going to jail just to compete with others in your sport? Wow

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Stealing is just part of sports: stealing bases, stealing the basketball, stealing the puck, stealing a soccer ball, intercepting a football...

 

In baseball, there's always subterfuge. Base-stealing helps the offense, and a smart defense seeks to prevent it by being prepared and knowing when attempts may occur. So players and coaches try to steal signs for stealing, as well as strategies like bunts and hit-and-runs. They watch sequences of hand signals, look for repeated patterns, try to crack codes.

 

The offense tries the same, studying batteries, as well as managers and coaches in dugouts (and even middle infielders opening and closing their mouths before every pitch). Of course such schemes and maneuvering include studying video, before and after games -- and during, once it became available. They're not allowed eye-in-the-sky coaches stationed above the action in press boxes like in football, but they'll take what they can get.

 

Most of us here are Red Sox fans, but let's be honest: do any of us really think there was just one rogue video guy breaking unrealistic "rules"? The lack of uproar around the MLB regarding Manfred's Boston report shows nobody really cares, and for a reason...

 

But when a cocky player like Bregman tweets braggadocio, pimps HRs and carries his bat to first base, people want to take him and his mates down.

[Slasher9]

FIRE HIM.

still has that cheater stink on him too.

[mvp 78]

FIRE HIM.

still has that cheater stink on him too.

 

Are you new here?

[Slasher9]

Are you new here?

 

i like your new sig

[mvp 78]

i like your new sig

 

It confuses some of the old folx.

[Deja Doh]

I've come to the conclusion we need to fire both Bloom and Cora. The minors are crap. The team is disjointed.

[Behindenemylines]

The injuries to the pitching derailed this season. I give both Bloom and Cora another season to right the ship. With $$$$ off the books Bloom has no excuses in the creation of the 2023 roster. Both are now on the clock!

[moonslav59]

The injuries to the pitching derailed this season. I give both Bloom and Cora another season to right the ship. With $$$$ off the books Bloom has no excuses in the creation of the 2023 roster. Both are now on the clock!

 

...which begs the question about what happens if we have the same or more injuries in '23?

[moonslav59]

I've come to the conclusion we need to fire both Bloom and Cora. The minors are crap. The team is disjointed.

 

On paper, the farm has made a remarkable climb in just 3 short years, with one season of no prospect play, at all. That, alone, set a lot of prospects back a notch.

 

Of course, these rankings are all speculative, but we have 10-15 prospects or recent grads who will get a significant chance to prove their worth in 2023 and another set of very promising prospects in 2024 (not 10-15 new ones, of course.)

 

This winter and next season should give us a clearer idea on just who Bloom is. It is probably his make or break year.

[Deja Doh]

On paper, the farm has made a remarkable climb in just 3 short years, with one season of no prospect play, at all. That, alone, set a lot of prospects back a notch.

 

Of course, these rankings are all speculative, but we have 10-15 prospects or recent grads who will get a significant chance to prove their worth in 2023 and another set of very promising prospects in 2024 (not 10-15 new ones, of course.)

 

This winter and next season should give us a clearer idea on just who Bloom is. It is probably his make or break year.

 

Good players at the minor league level don't necessarily translate to good players at the major league level.

[Bellhorn04]

Good players at the minor league level don't necessarily translate to good players at the major league level.

 

True, but the more you have, the better your chances.

[jad]

True, but the more you have, the better your chances.

 

Actually, the more all-stars you have on your team, the better your chances. But this goes completely against the JH/Bloom philosophy.

[moonslav59]

Good players at the minor league level don't necessarily translate to good players at the major league level.

 

Yes. That's what I meant by "speculative," but on paper, it appears Bloom has rebuilt the farm quickly, deeply and strongly- much faster than I thought it could be done, but one major boost came from DD's prospects that have exceeded almost everyone's expectations from 3-4 years ago.

 

Bello, Casas, Wong, Wink, Crawford, Kelly, German, Duran, Down

 

Rafaela, Mata, Walter, E Valdez, W Abreu

 

Murphy, R Hern, Bazardo, Polito, Wallace, Granberg

 

Some are very promising, some not so much and some long shots, but the sheer numbers are impressive.

[harmony]

Good players at the minor league level don't necessarily translate to good players at the major league level.

That's why the quantity of quality prospects is important.

 

The Seattle Mariners have graduated a slew of Top 100 prospects over the past few years with disappointing results from Jarred Kelenic, Evan White, Justus Sheffield, Justin Dunn, Taylor Trammell and in the last two years 2020 Rookie of the Year Kyle Lewis.

 

Yet the promising Mariner future is built around graduated prospects Julio Rodriguez, George Kirby, Cal Raleigh, Logan Gilbert and Matt Brash.

 

Not all top prospects work out.

[moonslav59]

That's why the quantity of quality prospects is important.

 

The Seattle Mariners have graduated a slew of Top 100 prospects over the past few years with disappointing results from Jarred Kelenic, Evan White, Justus Sheffield, Justin Dunn, Taylor Trammell and in the last two years 2020 Rookie of the Year Kyle Lewis.

 

Yet the promising Mariner future is built around graduated prospects Julio Rodriguez, George Kirby, Cal Raleigh, Logan Gilbert and Matt Brash.

 

Not all top prospects work out.

 

Exactly, and a GM has to try and build a farm with many quality prospects. In many ways, it's a crapshoot on which ones develop into something special, but by and large, the more the better.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Kiké Hernández said he felt like the Red Sox became comfortable being in last place last year, and added that he doesn’t think that should be acceptable for the Red Sox. He said he expects the Sox to be playing in October.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

@alexspeier

Kiké Hernández said he felt like the Red Sox became comfortable being in last place last year, and added that he doesn’t think that should be acceptable for the Red Sox. He said he expects the Sox to be playing in October.

 

Realist.

 

Game 162 is 10/1 at Baltimore.

[harmony]

The Red Sox gave Alex Cora a second chance:

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2023/02/08/upcoming-book-contains-new-details-about-alex-coras-involvement-in-astros-sign-stealing-scandal/

 

How would Red Sox fans feel if Cora managed the Yankees?

[Old Red]

The Red Sox gave Alex Cora a second chance:

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2023/02/08/upcoming-book-contains-new-details-about-alex-coras-involvement-in-astros-sign-stealing-scandal/

 

How would Red Sox fans feel if Cora managed the Yankees?

 

Good question!