Fire alex cora

[Slasher9]

It would have been much more legal to just fire him...

 

true. but this is philly we are talking about. even Santa Claus himself doesnt get a "pass" there....

[cp176]

So... the entire time the farm system was ranked last, you insisted it was fine. Niw it’s improving and you call it “extremely weak.”

 

The real issue with the Sox farm system right now is it looks like the most MLB-ready player is a 3b, and the most likely openings for a rookie will be in 1b, 2b, CF, or RF, along with SP and RP.

 

So unless Dalbec can handle RF, or Devers moves to 1b, are you saying the Sox should just hold on to Dalbec and leave him in Pawtucket just for the sake of having one better prospect?

 

sarcasm my friend! I think that both Chavis and Dalbec are superior to any of the guys traded except for possibly Moncada. i would be fine with them staying in Boston but if they were traded for upgrades I would be ok with that as well. The extremely weak and decimated farm system comment is just me parroting what has been said for so very very tiringly long. And yes I never did buy into the repeated refrain that our farm was the worst in all of baseball.

I'm pretty sure that people here think that I am some kind of huge supporter of all things DD. A defender yes but a huge supporter no not really. Whoever our GM is he gets my support. I might not always agree with the moves he makes but I will never go off the rails with respect to what is done as some here have seemed to do. I also do not like to get caught up in the silliness of comparing GMs. Plenty of negatives as well as positives can be found with respect to most of them. I'm clearly not as good a fan as the vocal critics here are.

[notin]

sarcasm my friend! I think that both Chavis and Dalbec are superior to any of the guys traded except for possibly Moncada. i would be fine with them staying in Boston but if they were traded for upgrades I would be ok with that as well. The extremely weak and decimated farm system comment is just me parroting what has been said for so very very tiringly long. And yes I never did buy into the repeated refrain that our farm was the worst in all of baseball.

I'm pretty sure that people here think that I am some kind of huge supporter of all things DD. A defender yes but a huge supporter no not really. Whoever our GM is he gets my support. I might not always agree with the moves he makes but I will never go off the rails with respect to what is done as some here have seemed to do. I also do not like to get caught up in the silliness of comparing GMs. Plenty of negatives as well as positives can be found with respect to most of them. I'm clearly not as good a fan as the vocal critics here are.

 

I'd be hesitant to think that. Dalbec is certainly older than all of them except Margot. But I think he needs to get at least one MLB plate appearance before I definitively state he will be better than even Buttrey. And I have much higher hopes for Kopech and Allen. Of course, Kopech was at least a prospect well spent, since he is not going to become Chris Sale 2.0.

 

I am not even convinced Chavis is a regular starter in MLB. In my little world, I see him taking over Brock Holt's supersub role, while Dalbec takes over 3B and Devers moves to 1B. But in reality, I am not so convinced the Sox have any plans to move Devers, and I have no idea what they think of Chavis. In fact, it is entirely possible Chavis' lack of position leads to him being dealt, as those smaller market teams prioritize salary over defense sometimes...

[cp176]

I'd be hesitant to think that. Dalbec is certainly older than all of them except Margot. But I think he needs to get at least one MLB plate appearance before I definitively state he will be better than even Buttrey. And I have much higher hopes for Kopech and Allen. Of course, Kopech was at least a prospect well spent, since he is not going to become Chris Sale 2.0.

 

I am not even convinced Chavis is a regular starter in MLB. In my little world, I see him taking over Brock Holt's supersub role, while Dalbec takes over 3B and Devers moves to 1B. But in reality, I am not so convinced the Sox have any plans to move Devers, and I have no idea what they think of Chavis. In fact, it is entirely possible Chavis' lack of position leads to him being dealt, as those smaller market teams prioritize salary over defense sometimes...

 

I don't think that I disagree with any of this. Imagine that!

[jad]

true. but this is philly we are talking about. even Santa Claus himself doesnt get a "pass" there....

 

I'm sure the GM decided that there was no way they could keep a manager whose career BA is higher than the 2019 performance of a guy they just forked out nearly half-a-billion dollars for.

[notin]

I'm sure the GM decided that there was no way they could keep a manager whose career BA is higher than the 2019 performance of a guy they just forked out nearly half-a-billion dollars for.

 

Ironic, because that failure should be on Klentak, not Kapler...

[moonslav59]

seriously - you don't think dalbec is worth hanging on to? who did dd trade away that looked any better? i know that you will have an answer for this but i guess it is doubtful that i will understand your logic. i hope that our incoming gm doesn't trade a couple of our solid prospects and decimate our extremely weak farm system

I like Dalbec way better than Chavis, but he is not too 100 like many DD traded away. I'm okay with moving Devers to 1B to maximize the defensive value of Dalbec, but my guess is you and the Sox disagree. I'm fine with that choice. That being said, Dalbec is likely more valuable as a 3Bman to another team than to us. Why is that so hard to understand? Also, I'm not for further decimating the farm. If I trade Dalbec it would be for another young player but at another position.

[jad]

Ironic, because that failure should be on Klentak, not Kapler...

 

Exactly. All you can do as a manager is take the players you're given and try to put them in a position to win. If they don't perform, that's on them, not you. There aren't many cases of managers doing the reverse: say, like putting Joe Kelly in a position of getting six outs in an extra-inning series-deciding game when you have other relievers watching from the bench.

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly. All you can do as a manager is take the players you're given and try to put them in a position to win. If they don't perform, that's on them, not you. There aren't many cases of managers doing the reverse: say, like putting Joe Kelly in a position of getting six outs in an extra-inning series-deciding game when you have other relievers watching from the bench.

 

You highlighted the horror of it quite nicely there.

[harmony]

I like Dalbec way better than Chavis, but he is not too 100 like many DD traded away. I'm okay with moving Devers to 1B to maximize the defensive value of Dalbec, but my guess is you and the Sox disagree. I'm fine with that choice. That being said, Dalbec is likely more valuable as a 3Bman to another team than to us. Why is that so hard to understand? Also, I'm not for further decimating the farm. If I trade Dalbec it would be for another young player but at another position.

Bobby Dalbec, who is a few weeks older than Michael Chavis, has played only 30 games above Double A, posting a .257/.301/.478/.779 line and a wRC+ of 91 in 123 plate appearances at Pawtucket with 29 strikeouts and only five walks.

 

Dalbec fared much better with a wRC+ of 143 in 439 plate appearances as a league-average-age player at Double A this year but has a Future Value of only 50 at MLB Prospect Watch and 45 at FanGraphs.

[Slasher9]

I'm sure the GM decided that there was no way they could keep a manager whose career BA is higher than the 2019 performance of a guy they just forked out nearly half-a-billion dollars for.

 

the players wanted him to stay. the owner did too but he succumbed to the relentless cries for his head on a platter from the Phans and sportsradio talking heads....his downfall was never ever holding a player accountable.

[moonslav59]

Bobby Dalbec, who is a few weeks older than Michael Chavis, has played only 30 games above Double A, posting a .257/.301/.478/.779 line and a wRC+ of 91 in 123 plate appearances at Pawtucket with 29 strikeouts and only five walks.

 

Dalbec fared much better with a wRC+ of 143 in 439 plate appearances as a league-average-age player at Double A this year but has a Future Value of only 50 at MLB Prospect Watch and 45 at FanGraphs.

 

I never said either was great . I like Dalbec better than Chavis because he's better on D

[Kimmi]

but the Farm is now empty and ranked near last place of all Farms. and a few short years ago it was top 3. what would you call that?

so we got MLB pieces. that has nothing to do with stating the obvious fact that the Farm has been decimated.

what would you call a top 3 Farm that becomes a #30 Farm?

 

Decimated, no doubt.

 

I am with you 100% on this, and have been since Day 1 of the Dombrowski era.

[Kimmi]

Decimated means destroyed. It's not generally used to refer to a resource that has been utilized to advantage.

 

Sticking with the farm analogy, when farmers harvest their crops they don't usually call that 'decimating' their farm.

 

Semantics, perhaps, but I think we all know what we're talking about here.

 

The farm was destroyed Bell. Regardless of why it was destroyed or regardless of the ring that followed, the farm was destroyed.

[moonslav59]

The farm was destroyed Bell. Regardless of why it was destroyed or regardless of the ring that followed, the farm was destroyed.

 

What word would you have chosen had DD also traded Beni, Devers, ERod, DHern and others?

[jad]

Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post

Decimated means destroyed. It's not generally used to refer to a resource that has been utilized to advantage.

 

Sticking with the farm analogy, when farmers harvest their crops they don't usually call that 'decimating' their farm.

 

Semantics, perhaps, but I think we all know what we're talking about here.

The farm was destroyed Bell. Regardless of why it was destroyed or regardless of the ring that followed, the farm was destroyed.

 

Actually, somewhat to my surprise and contrary to the way it's almost always used, 'decimate' does not mean 'destroy'. It means to kill one out of ten (10%). So I suppose in that sense, you could very well decimate the farm without doing it a whole lot of harm ... (well, taking 'kill' metaphorically.)

[Bellhorn04]

What word would you have chosen had DD also traded Beni, Devers, ERod, DHern and others?

 

Vaporized?

[Slasher9]

Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post

Decimated means destroyed. It's not generally used to refer to a resource that has been utilized to advantage.

 

Sticking with the farm analogy, when farmers harvest their crops they don't usually call that 'decimating' their farm.

 

Semantics, perhaps, but I think we all know what we're talking about here.

The farm was destroyed Bell. Regardless of why it was destroyed or regardless of the ring that followed, the farm was destroyed.

 

Actually, somewhat to my surprise and contrary to the way it's almost always used, 'decimate' does not mean 'destroy'. It means to kill one out of ten (10%). So I suppose in that sense, you could very well decimate the farm without doing it a whole lot of harm ... (well, taking 'kill' metaphorically.)

 

post 1157

[Slasher9]

What word would you have chosen had DD also traded Beni, Devers, ERod, DHern and others?

 

the results would have been the same....a top 3 Farm turned into a #30 Farm. decimated would still be the word. the only difference is that when talking about DD no one would be able to say "at least he got us a parade". unless you believe we get one in 2018 without beni (see: skinny beni "the catch"), devers, and erod......

[Bellhorn04]

the results would have been the same....a top 3 Farm turned into a #30 Farm. decimated would still be the word. the only difference is that when talking about DD no one would be able to say "at least he got us a parade". unless you believe we get one in 2018 without beni (see: skinny beni "the catch"), devers, and erod......

 

There are DEGREES of destruction. Can we all at least agree on that?

[notin]

There are DEGREES of destruction. Can we all at least agree on that?

 

But they all measure the quality of the final destruction, not the euphemisms used to describe the process...

[Bellhorn04]

But they all measure the quality of the final destruction, not the euphemisms used to describe the process...

 

Not sure I get your point.

 

Let me ask this: when DD traded Moncada and Kopech for Sale, would you call that an act of destruction?

[Slasher9]

There are DEGREES of destruction. Can we all at least agree on that?

 

i can agree with that. if we went from top 3 Farm to like 15-20 Farm i would use "decimated" without larger font and without bold font.

[Bellhorn04]

i can agree with that. if we went from top 3 Farm to like 15-20 Farm i would use "decimated" without larger font and without bold font.

 

Baseball America bumped us up to #22 in their year end rankings. That's not far from #20.

[moonslav59]

Baseball America bumped us up to #22 in their year end rankings. That's not far from #20.

 

It's not far from 30 either. Those bottom 9-10 are not far apart.

 

(Note: I loved the trade and have been accused of wanting to keep all our prospects.)

[moonslav59]

Not sure I get your point.

 

Let me ask this: when DD traded Moncada and Kopech for Sale, would you call that an act of destruction?

 

Not to the team or the 25 man roster, but to the farm? HELL, YES!

[moonslav59]

Vaporized?

 

Good one, so decimated is a step up from that.

[Bellhorn04]

Not to the team or the 25 man roster, but to the farm? HELL, YES!

 

I think it's a little weird to look at it that every time you trade a prospect for an MLB player you're doing something destructive. Especially when it's a good, fair trade.

[notin]

Not sure I get your point.

 

Let me ask this: when DD traded Moncada and Kopech for Sale, would you call that an act of destruction?

 

What term do you prefer to use for calling trading multiple prospects for numerous major leaguers with varying degrees of effectiveness? Do you prefer “eradicated”?

[jad]

post 1157

 

Damn! They said I wouldn't have to go to the library for this class!