Fire alex cora

[moonslav59]

We've seen it takes dealing about 7 good prospects to go from ranked 3 to ranked 30th. So the difference isn't so large.

 

But the thing is, 4 of those 7 have already made the majors. The real question is, how many actual major leagers do the Sox have i their farm right now? And I'm not talkiing about Bobby Poyner types who do pitch in the majors, but are really more AAAA variety shuttle bus candidates. I mean players who will have an actual MLB career.

 

You can guesstimate a bit by looking at rankings, but bear in mind that on every BA Top 100 list, there are about 30 players who won't play in MLB beyond maybe a September call up.

 

Even guys like Casas. He's the top ranked guy, but he also plays the toughest position to crack an MLB lineup, since there are plenty of 1B out there who can hit, but couldn't field their minor league position.

 

I realize it's next to impossible to speculate on A-ball guys. But if you look at Pawtucket and Portland, how many actual future MLB players are on those teams right now?

 

It was only about 7 top prospects traded, but many many more were traded, too. It may not be as noticeable, but sometimes those non top prospects can surprise and add to the overall value of a farm. Sure, many prospects never make it to the bigs, let alone shine there, but the more you have, the better chance you have some will become helpful.

 

Many on this list never did or never will contribute anything to a major league team, but the sheer volume alone is astounding. When you factor in the quality of many of them, of the value they had when traded, it's pretty shocking.

 

Top Ranking according to Soxprospects.com while in our system:

1 Moncada

1 Swihart

3 Margot

3 Espinoza

5 Kopech

5 Beeks

5 Marrero

6 Guerra

7 Basabe

9 Dubon

12 T Shaw (not a prospect when traded)

12 Rijo

13 Allen

15 Martin

17 Buttrey

18 Basabe

18 Callahan

20 Bautista

20 Asuaje

 

That's over 18 prospects once ranked rather highly.

[a700hitter]

And none of this changes the fact that Ben is a Loser.

[moonslav59]

One ring and a farm foundation that led to another is far from "Total."

[jad]

I know this should be on another thread, but there is nothing I like better in the MLB than seeing "The Cardinal Way" exposed as fraud. (OK. Back to Cora.)

[a700hitter]

One ring and a farm foundation that led to another is far from "Total."

You are correct. Let me set the record straight on Ben.

 

[moonslav59]

I differ to the expert on losers.

[cp176]

Except that beyond blind faith, there is no reason to think Casas or Mata or Duran or Groome will necessarily ever see a full season in the majors just yet. Plenty of high ranked players than them have had shorter careers...

 

So very true and it kind of proves the point I'm trying to make. i guess in some minds either we should have kept all we lost or at least consulted those here who really know what we should be doing!

[cp176]

I posed a simple question: which farm was better.

 

Yes, we called up Devers, Beni and Chavis from that crop. That was a one snap shot farm. Just those three called up are better than all the prospects acquired after Ben and called up combined, and that was 4 years ago!

 

Answer how you wish, but that farm was exponentially better than this one.

 

All Our Top Prospects Acquired after Ben (4 Years):

Casas

Dalbec

Groome

Ward

Duran

Houck

Chatham

Feltman

Shawaryn

A Flores

 

All the Top Prospects Acquired by Ben (4 years):

ERod (by trade)

Devers

Moncada

Beni

Espinoza

Kopech

L Allen

Chavis

D Hernandez

Buttrey

Johnson

Guerra

Basabe I

Basabe II

Travis

Bautista

Asuaje

P Light

Maddox

Lakins

 

These guys were worth enough to keep Devers, Beni & Chavis and also get (via trade) Sale, Pom, Thornburg, Eovaldi, Pearce, AReed, Kinsler and others.

 

We couldn't get a pitcher like Sale by trading our entire, current top 10 prospects.

 

It's not even close, but I guess that's just my opinion and a bunch or experts, too.

 

 

 

I think that you moved the goal posts just a bit as you often seem to do. I should know better than to argue with someone who is right. Now don't indulge me by telling me about all of the mistakes you have made. Also do not waste your time by telling me that nothing personal is intended in what you say. you ard the experts are right of course and any other argument doesn't matter.

[Slasher9]

or at least consulted those here who really know what we should be doing!

 

agreed!

[Bellhorn04]

All the Top Prospects Acquired by Ben (4 years):

ERod (by trade)

Devers

Moncada

Beni

Espinoza

Kopech

L Allen

Chavis

D Hernandez

Buttrey

Johnson

Guerra

Basabe I

Basabe II

Travis

Bautista

Asuaje

P Light

Maddox

Lakins

 

You left out Castillo.

[Bellhorn04]

Ben did a great job signing Moncada, but let's not forget that was a bidding system and the Red Sox paid 63 million for him. I don't think that system exists anymore.

[Bellhorn04]

You could even make a pretty good case that Moncada was more like a free agent signing, similar to Castillo, except a hit instead of a miss.

[notin]

You could even make a pretty good case that Moncada was more like a free agent signing, similar to Castillo, except a hit instead of a miss.

 

You could make that case for a lot of prospects who came up as IFA’s

[Bellhorn04]

You could make that case for a lot of prospects who came up as IFA’s

 

Except there aren't a lot that cost $63 million to acquire.

[notin]

So very true and it kind of proves the point I'm trying to make. i guess in some minds either we should have kept all we lost or at least consulted those here who really know what we should be doing!

 

Does the "p" in cpl stand for "passive aggressive"?

[notin]

Except there aren't a lot that cost $63 million to acquire.

 

No but for a long time, the draft itself was a battle of sign-ability.

 

Moncada's money was crazy, but it was the same process that landed every other IFA, except that he as 3 years older than most at the time...

[notin]

Ben did a great job signing Moncada, but let's not forget that was a bidding system and the Red Sox paid 63 million for him. I don't think that system exists anymore.

 

How did they replace it?

 

and clearly that was back when John Henry didn't mind aying taxes. Moncada got $31.5mill and MLB got $31.5mill since the Sox were already over their allotment..

[moonslav59]

I think that you moved the goal posts just a bit as you often seem to do. I should know better than to argue with someone who is right. Now don't indulge me by telling me about all of the mistakes you have made. Also do not waste your time by telling me that nothing personal is intended in what you say. you ard the experts are right of course and any other argument doesn't matter.

 

Your passive aggressiveness on full display.

 

Stop acting like you are never condescending or all-knowing.

[moonslav59]

Except there aren't a lot that cost $63 million to acquire.

 

Except for Dice-K.

[moonslav59]

Does the "p" in cpl stand for "passive aggressive"?

 

I saw this after my post.

[Bellhorn04]

Except for Dice-K.

 

There were several others too.

 

The posting system for international players was another thing that favored the big money teams like us, and it's gone now.

[Jack Flap]

How did they replace it?

 

The younger, less experienced players are now subject to a bonus pool system with a hard cap. This is also why Ohtani signed for a tiny fraction of what he could have made if he was essentially an unrestricted free agent, as Moncada was.

[Bellhorn04]

The point is, when we consider Ben's success at building the farm, I think Moncada belongs in a separate category.

 

He was a $63 million outlay that not many teams would have been able to make.

[moonslav59]

The point is, when we consider Ben's success at building the farm, I think Moncada belongs in a separate category.

 

He was a $63 million outlay that not many teams would have been able to make.

 

Very true, but one could consider his restrictions on signing 30+ pitchers to $30M+ a year, too.

 

Even without Moncada, Ben's farm building was way better than DD's.

 

Rather than admit they were wrong, some prefer to bash blind squirrels.

[Bellhorn04]

Very true, but one could consider his restrictions on signing 30+ pitchers to $30M+ a year, too.

 

True, but OTOH he had a quarter billion to spend on Pablo, Hanley and Rusney.

[moonslav59]

True, but OTOH he had a quarter billion to spend on Pablo, Hanley and Rusney.

 

Just goes to show you, multiple "mid range" contracts can work out way worse than big ones like price's or Sale's.

[cp176]

agreed!

 

lol

[cp176]

Does the "p" in cpl stand for "passive aggressive"?

 

Not really but whatever the eye of the beholder sees I guess is ok.

[cp176]

Your passive aggressiveness on full display.

 

Stop acting like you are never condescending or all-knowing.

 

Interesting - i don't consider myself passive aggressive and I don't think I am condescending nor all knowing. What do you call yourself?

[cp176]

Your passive aggressiveness on full display.

 

Stop acting like you are never condescending or all-knowing.

 

I keep rereading this. it doesn't really sound like something you would post. Doesn't seem very nice.