A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[notin]

Can we just fire DD and hire Theo part time? You know the baseball God that everyone here kneels to. He did bring us two division titles while not being on Sox payroll. Of course he had nothing to do with our three last place finishes.

 

Epstein was either GM or President of Baseball Ops when two of the three longest droughts in MLB history ended. Counts for nothing? Coincidence?

[moonslav59]

Some of these prospects have dropped a lot since the trades, but here is a list of all the prospects DD traded- listed in order of their highest soxprospects.com ranking:

 

1 Moncada

3 Margot

3 Espinoza

5 Kopech

6 Guerra

7 Basabe

9 Dubon

12 Travis Shaw (not a prospect when traded)

12 W Rijo

13 L Allen

13 P Light

18 Basabe

20 C Asuaje

21 V Diaz

24 J Pennington

40 J Almonte

 

 

[cp176]

Dombrowski certainly had a wealth of prospects to work with, and he has certainly sawed through them. With regard to the payroll, though, Price has really been the only big-ticket acquisition. Which had a lot to do with being hamstrung by the Hanley-Panda package.

 

DD had a lot of prospects. That I grant you. At this point in time not one of them really has no brainer stamped on the forehead. Believe me, I wanted to keep Moncada but i just had to settle for Sale. DD did what he had to do to keep us competitive. Listening to some of the squawkers here makes me wonder what they wanted. We could have kept all prospects - oh yeah but none of them would be playing for us anytime soon. We can of course hindsight every move that ever gets made by any GM simply because that is what we do. We are competitive. We have a competitive team led by a competitive GM who wants to win. We will continue to be competitive in the future.

[notin]

Some of these prospects have dropped a lot since the trades, but here is a list of all the prospects DD traded- listed in order of their highest soxprospects.com ranking:

 

1 Moncada

3 Margot

3 Espinoza

5 Kopech

6 Guerra

7 Basabe

9 Dubon

12 Travis Shaw (not a prospect when traded)

12 W Rijo

13 L Allen

13 P Light

18 Basabe

20 C Asuaje

21 V Diaz

24 J Pennington

40 J Almonte

 

 

 

And the ones he traded for Reed? Nogosek and ?

 

Honestly, outside of maybe four or maybe five guys on that list, we probably won't miss most of them.

 

But going in so heavy on a closer (especially given our rotation at the time) will never strike me as a bright move...

[moonslav59]

And the ones he traded for Reed? Nogosek and ?

 

Honestly, outside of maybe four or maybe five guys on that list, we probably won't miss most of them.

 

But going in so heavy on a closer (especially given our rotation at the time) will never strike me as a bright move...

 

Reed: Nogosek (20th), Bautista (20th) & Callahan (18th)

 

Nunez: Shuan Anderson (11th) & Grgory Santos (NR)

[moonslav59]

Half of our current 40 man roster was added in the 2015 winter or later, including call-ups that were in the system but not on the 40 man roster.

 

Carson Smith is #20 added DEC 2015.

 

Steven Wright is second in 40 man roster seniority behind Pedey.

[moonslav59]

Cot's has our luxury tax budget, including benefits at $202.5M.

 

Arb estimates are at:

 

$10M Betts (1st of 3 arbs)

$9M Pom (3 of 3)

$7M Bogey (2 of 3)

$6M JBJ (2 of 4)

$4M Kelly (3 of 3)

$4M ERod (1 of 4)

$2.5M Leon (2 of 4)

$2M Holt (2 of 3)

$2M Ross (3 of 3)

$2M Thornburg (2 of 3)

$1.5M Vazquez (1 of 3)

$1M Smith (1 of 3)

$1M Workman (1 of 3)

$1M Wright (1 of 3)

$750K Rutledge (2 of 3)

 

We could save close to $5M by trading or non-tendering Holt, Ross and Rutledge.

 

My numbers are different from theirs, but we'll be going way over the luxury limit, if we spend like I think we will be doing.

 

We might even go over the second threshold.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR chat...

 

Big Boss Man

5:06 Potential Stanton rough draft:

- To Miami

CF. Jackie Bradley

3B. Michael Chavis

C. Daniel Flores

SP. Tanner Houck

 

- To Boston

LF Giancarlo Stanton

IF Martin Prado (Nunez replacement)

 

Boston take on 100% of both contracts. Does this seem fair & logical in your view?

 

Jason Martinez

5:09 That would be about what I'd expect if they took on the entire deal. Not sure if they'd have to take on Prado's contract in that deal, although I can see the fit.

 

[Spudboy]

can we just fire dd and hire theo part time? You know the baseball god that everyone here kneels to. He did bring us two division titles while not being on sox payroll. Of course he had nothing to do with our three last place finishes.

 

poty

[Spudboy]

DD had a lot of prospects. That I grant you. At this point in time not one of them really has no brainer stamped on the forehead. Believe me, I wanted to keep Moncada but i just had to settle for Sale. DD did what he had to do to keep us competitive. Listening to some of the squawkers here makes me wonder what they wanted. We could have kept all prospects - oh yeah but none of them would be playing for us anytime soon. We can of course hindsight every move that ever gets made by any GM simply because that is what we do. We are competitive. We have a competitive team led by a competitive GM who wants to win. We will continue to be competitive in the future.

 

Amen.

[Nick]

DD had a lot of prospects. That I grant you. At this point in time not one of them really has no brainer stamped on the forehead. Believe me, I wanted to keep Moncada but i just had to settle for Sale. DD did what he had to do to keep us competitive. Listening to some of the squawkers here makes me wonder what they wanted. We could have kept all prospects - oh yeah but none of them would be playing for us anytime soon. We can of course hindsight every move that ever gets made by any GM simply because that is what we do. We are competitive. We have a competitive team led by a competitive GM who wants to win. We will continue to be competitive in the future.

 

But he gets no credit for 2 Division titles. Just go ask Kimmi. It was all Theo. And if we win it all this year? Theo. Using that logic, I'll blame it on Ben if we don't win it all this year.

[Bellhorn04]

And the ones he traded for Reed? Nogosek and ?

 

Honestly, outside of maybe four or maybe five guys on that list, we probably won't miss most of them.

 

But going in so heavy on a closer (especially given our rotation at the time) will never strike me as a bright move...

 

I don't get the part about our rotation at the time.

[SoxnCycles]

Epstein was either GM or President of Baseball Ops when two of the three longest droughts in MLB history ended. Counts for nothing? Coincidence?

 

He also did a a decent job of rebuilding the Cubs.

But, I guess it's silly to say the guy knows what he's doing.

[moonslav59]

But he gets no credit for 2 Division titles. Just go ask Kimmi. It was all Theo. And if we win it all this year? Theo. Using that logic, I'll blame it on Ben if we don't win it all this year.

 

Nobody is saying he gets "no credit."

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody is saying he gets "no credit."

 

Well, Kimmi did say this:

 

"He didn't do anything but step into a great situation and reap the benefits that others worked so hard to build."

 

That's pretty close.

 

And it's mild compared to what Larry Cook has been saying.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

Well, Kimmi did say this:

 

"He didn't do anything but step into a great situation and reap the benefits that others worked so hard to build."

 

That's pretty close.

 

And it's mild compared to what Larry Cook has been saying.

 

Good points.

 

I will say, I don't think any of the trades he made were difficult to make. IT just took someone willing to risk losing future value in order to obtain present value.

 

By and large, most of his players obtained have performed at or above expectations. That's not something that is easy to do.

 

The Price signing is the one thing that could almost totally tank his work.

[Slasher9]

Theo is the G.O.A.T. GM. no one comes close.

 

When DD was hired we all knew our Farm was toast. and that's exactly what happened. i'm glad Sale was one of the players brought in. here's hoping he kept just enough to obtain Giancarlo this offseason. if he didn't that will be his second biggest blunder. (signing Price will go down as the worst contract of all time).....

[sk7326]

Theo is the G.O.A.T. GM. no one comes close.

 

When DD was hired we all knew our Farm was toast. and that's exactly what happened. i'm glad Sale was one of the players brought in. here's hoping he kept just enough to obtain Giancarlo this offseason. if he didn't that will be his second biggest blunder. (signing Price will go down as the worst contract of all time).....

 

Price delivered 1 decent season - which instantly makes his contract better than Carl Crawford

[moonslav59]

Price delivered 1 decent season - which instantly makes his contract better than Carl Crawford

 

I totally agree, but we were able to find a taker for CC but not Pablo and probably not Price, if he bombs out.

[Bellhorn04]

I totally agree, but we were able to find a taker for CC but not Pablo and probably not Price, if he bombs out.

 

The Dodger Dump was just incredible luck.

[Nick]

I totally agree, but we were able to find a taker for CC but not Pablo and probably not Price, if he bombs out.

 

To say his contract is the worst after 2 seasons is not very bright. I bet Price doesn't have any plans to flame out.

[Slasher9]

The Red Sox named Ron Roenicke their bench coach, Tom Goodwin their first base coach and outfield instructor, and Carlos Febles the third base coach and infield instructor. Dana LeVangie will also be returning as bullpen coach.

[moonslav59]

To say his contract is the worst after 2 seasons is not very bright. I bet Price doesn't have any plans to flame out.

 

I think he said "it will go down as the worst..." which is his opinion.

 

I don't agree. I think Price will come back. Even if he needs surgery and misses a year, he could still give us way more than CC gave us & the Dodgers.

[moonslav59]

The Dodger Dump was just incredible luck.

 

I still maintain it was one of the very best Sox trades ever made.

 

I guess since Ben made it, and we all know what an idiot he is, it must have been "luck".

[mvp 78]

I still maintain it was one of the very best Sox trades ever made.

 

I guess since Ben made it, and we all know what an idiot he is, it must have been "luck".

 

Well, there were a lot of people on here who refused to call it a Ben move as ANY TRADE THAT BIG WOULD HAVE TO COME FROM OWNERSHIP or some nonsense.

 

Ben had some great moves and some really bad moves. Hard to really parse out moves that were Ben's vs moves that were FO's.

[Bellhorn04]

I still maintain it was one of the very best Sox trades ever made.

 

I guess since Ben made it, and we all know what an idiot he is, it must have been "luck".

 

We've had this discussion before, of course. I don't look at it as a trade, because we got no talent in return unless you really want to count Rubby De La Rosa and Allen Webster.

 

The reports on that trade indicated that Ben was involved at kind of a lower level, that Henry and Lucchino were the driving forces.

 

I do think Lucchino was likely responsible for some of the bad moves during Ben's time.

 

I was a Ben supporter up until 2015. He lost me with Who's the Ace?

[a700hitter]

We've had this discussion before, of course. I don't look at it as a trade, because we got no talent in return unless you really want to count Rubby De La Rosa and Allen Webster.

 

The reports on that trade indicated that Ben was involved at kind of a lower level, that Henry and Lucchino were the driving forces.

 

I do think Lucchino was likely responsible for some of the bad moves during Ben's time.

 

I was a Ben supporter up until 2015. He lost me with Who's the Ace?

I also didn't view it as a trade. I remember people being enthusiastic about the prospects that we got in return. I was fairly certain that the guys we got in the trade were busted prospects who would never amount to anything. The Dodgers included just enough that the Commissioner would approve the deal. It was a salary dump -- pure and simple.

[mvp 78]

We've had this discussion before, of course. I don't look at it as a trade, because we got no talent in return unless you really want to count Rubby De La Rosa and Allen Webster.

 

The reports on that trade indicated that Ben was involved at kind of a lower level, that Henry and Lucchino were the driving forces.

 

I do think Lucchino was likely responsible for some of the bad moves during Ben's time.

 

I was a Ben supporter up until 2015. He lost me with Who's the Ace?

 

I don't remember that info ever coming out.

[Spudboy]

But he gets no credit for 2 Division titles. Just go ask Kimmi. It was all Theo. And if we win it all this year? Theo. Using that logic, I'll blame it on Ben if we don't win it all this year.

 

Lol.

 

I like this post.

[Spudboy]

Good points.

 

I will say, I don't think any of the trades he made were difficult to make. IT just took someone willing to risk losing future value in order to obtain present value.

 

By and large, most of his players obtained have performed at or above expectations. That's not something that is easy to do.

 

The Price signing is the one thing that could almost totally tank his work.

 

Will you say this if Price returns to form for the remainder of his contract?