A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

DH's can't win MVP so that one's safe...

[moonslav59]

DH's can't win MVP so that one's safe...

 

Top 5 maybe.

[moonslav59]

$We have about $33M to spend and stay under the severe penalty limit.

 

We could maybe dump Holt $2M or some of HRam's $22M, but we'll probably want to save a few million for summer acquisitions.

 

Could we do this, instead of signing JDM?

 

$7M x 3 Watson

$7M x 2 Nunez

$6M x 2 Cashner

$6M x 1 Duda

 

or

 

$10M x 3 Morrison

$7M x 3 Watson

$7M x 2 Nunez

$4M x 1 Liriano

[Larry Cook]

$We have about $33M to spend and stay under the severe penalty limit.

 

We could maybe dump Holt $2M or some of HRam's $22M, but we'll probably want to save a few million for summer acquisitions.

 

Could we do this, instead of signing JDM?

 

$7M x 3 Watson

$7M x 2 Nunez

$6M x 2 Cashner

$6M x 1 Duda

 

or

 

$10M x 3 Morrison

$7M x 3 Watson

$7M x 2 Nunez

$4M x 1 Liriano

 

3 years on Watson?

[Nick]

$We have about $33M to spend and stay under the severe penalty limit.

 

We could maybe dump Holt $2M or some of HRam's $22M, but we'll probably want to save a few million for summer acquisitions.

 

Could we do this, instead of signing JDM?

 

$7M x 3 Watson

$7M x 2 Nunez

$6M x 2 Cashner

$6M x 1 Duda

 

or

 

$10M x 3 Morrison

$7M x 3 Watson

$7M x 2 Nunez

$4M x 1 Liriano

 

If we sign JD, HRam can be platooned with Moreland at 1B. Give him few more bats at DH. That way we get some value for paying him $22M. But his 2019 season won't be vested. I serious doubt you'd find any takers that will pay more than $10M of $44M.

 

Get some value in 2018, then save entire $22M in 2019, 50% savings versus 25% savings, and we get 400 at bats for 2018.

[moonslav59]

3 years on Watson?

 

If we want to get him, it might take that. I'd rather do 1 or 2.

[moonslav59]

If we sign JD, HRam can be platooned with Moreland at 1B. Give him few more bats at DH. That way we get some value for paying him $22M. But his 2019 season won't be vested. I serious doubt you'd find any takers that will pay more than $10M of $44M.

 

Get some value in 2018, then save entire $22M in 2019, 50% savings versus 25% savings, and we get 400 at bats for 2018.

 

Agreed.

 

And, when an OF'er rests or gets hurt, JD plays LF and HRam can DH. He could get about 400-450 this way and stay just below the vesting amount.

 

1B vs LHPs

 

DH vs some RHPs.

 

PH at times.

[cp176]

Was he being a leader when he attacked management over the whole LaRoche thing? I can see reasons to say he was. ..

 

For the record - I am a true big league fan of Chris Sale. The way he looked, acted, and played this year screams leader to me. Now, when it comes to him cutting up the unis and going nuts over LaRoche thing, not so much. I'll give him a pass though because there was nothing that looked juvenile whatsoever about him when he came to Boston. He sounds even better and more committed than he did last year!

[Kimmi]

Was he being a leader when he attacked management over the whole LaRoche thing? I can see reasons to say he was. ..

 

Yes, I believe he was in that case.

 

He was not being a leader when he cut up the unis, however.

[Kimmi]

Ball's in JD's hand....He can be mad at the world but fair value is what willing buyer and seller comes to terms. He is overestimating his value.

 

Does he really think he'll have more leverage by sitting out a year or settling for a one year deal? Next year's free agent class is loaded and he'll be year older.

 

If I'm Boras, I'd ask for graceful ending with Sox. Beg for few extra millions and be done with it. But he's not getting another year and I only see increase of say $10M over 5 years. That's absolute max. Hell, DD may not want to do that.

 

Sounds about right. Absolutely no way should JD get a 6th year, and this was my feeling at the beginning of the off season, when we didn't know the market would be so tough.

 

As I've said before, one side of me says offer him $10 mil more if that would get him to sign now, while at the same time saving some face. The other side of me says Dombrowski has no reason to outbid himself.

 

If neither side is going to budge, it's time to go to Plan B. Whatever that is.

[cp176]

Now you all know how I feel about Sale and leadership. He is a leader. If one of the criteria in some minds, is standing up for your teammates, I have a hard time digesting the venom toward David Price displayed. I didn't like what he did anymore than anyone else here but unless I really missed something, part of his attack on Eck was his idea of standing up for his teammates based on some of the things Eck had said. It might have been inappropriate but I'm going to be pulling for this potential ace big time. Much more so than I will be for Pedroia.

[Kimmi]

Now you all know how I feel about Sale and leadership. He is a leader. If one of the criteria in some minds, is standing up for your teammates, I have a hard time digesting the venom toward David Price displayed. I didn't like what he did anymore than anyone else here but unless I really missed something, part of his attack on Eck was his idea of standing up for his teammates based on some of the things Eck had said. It might have been inappropriate but I'm going to be pulling for this potential ace big time. Much more so than I will be for Pedroia.

 

I will be pulling for Price and Pedroia alike. I personally think that they are both leaders. They both made mistakes, which all leaders do, but that doesn't mean that they aren't good leaders.

 

I agree with you about Sale being a great leader. He, too, had a lapse in judgment with the uniform thing.

[cp176]

I will be pulling for Price and Pedroia alike. I personally think that they are both leaders. They both made mistakes, which all leaders do, but that doesn't mean that they aren't good leaders.

 

I agree with you about Sale being a great leader. He, too, had a lapse in judgment with the uniform thing.

 

I do agree with you for the most part. The Pedroia thing may have just been a lack of judgement. Sadly we all witnessed it and it really did not look to me as though he was very supportive of his teammates. I think that he plays hard and when healthy I can't think of anyone else I had rather see out there. That is certainly worthy of being considered a leader. He gets there early and stays late. He lives and breathes the game and plays it the right way. I truly wish that he could have shut his mouth. In my estimation, that was not my idea of leadership.

[Larry Cook]

I do agree with you for the most part. The Pedroia thing may have just been a lack of judgement. Sadly we all witnessed it and it really did not look to me as though he was very supportive of his teammates. I think that he plays hard and when healthy I can't think of anyone else I had rather see out there. That is certainly worthy of being considered a leader. He gets there early and stays late. He lives and breathes the game and plays it the right way. I truly wish that he could have shut his mouth. In my estimation, that was not my idea of leadership.

 

Pedroia will give you everything he has game in and game out. And if you are looking for a leader by example, he could be that.

 

But if your your looking for a guy to motivate, inspire and pick up other guys on the team, he is not the guy. Never has been and never will. Just not part of his dna.

 

Sad because when you think back to his rookie season and how badly he struggled and how many guys had his back when he needed it most. Now to know that he will never be a guy to have a teammates back.

 

But pedroia does give you everything he has!

[moonslav59]

The argument is over. We have a leader. He told us so himself....

 

“For whatever people say from the outside — ‘We don’t have a leader’ — I’m standing right here,” he said. “I’ve been here for a long time. We’re in first place. That’s it."

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/steve_buckley/2017/07/buckley_dustin_pedroia_proclaims_himself_the_leader_but_his

[S5Dewey]

The fact the PD said he was a leader back in July doesn't make him one.

 

I know I related on this board the reluctance of the media people and Brian Butterfield to respond to the question of, "How did 'It's not me, it's them' play in the clubhouse?". The only one to respond was Butterfield which was appropriate because he was the only one of the four people there to have been in the clubhouse.

 

To capsulize Butter's response, it was that Pedey is one of the senior members of the team. He has a well earned reputation for showing up early and working hard and that gets him "a lot of slack in the clubhouse". (That's a part of Butter's statement that I remember verbatim).

 

My interpretation of that is that the clubhouse didn't like it one bit but they're deferring to Pedey's longevity and work ethic and not making a public issue of it - as good team members should do. However, IMO because of that incident the ship of Pedey being a team leader has has long since sailed. The team will respect him for what he does but they won't be trusting him to have their backs, and having his players backs is one of the biggest requirements of a "Team Leader".

[cp176]

The fact the PD said he was a leader back in July doesn't make him one.

 

I know I related on this board the reluctance of the media people and Brian Butterfield to respond to the question of, "How did 'It's not me, it's them' play in the clubhouse?". The only one to respond was Butterfield which was appropriate because he was the only one of the four people there to have been in the clubhouse.

 

To capsulize Butter's response, it was that Pedey is one of the senior members of the team. He has a well earned reputation for showing up early and working hard and that gets him "a lot of slack in the clubhouse". (That's a part of Butter's statement that I remember verbatim).

 

My interpretation of that is that the clubhouse didn't like it one bit but they're deferring to Pedey's longevity and work ethic and not making a public issue of it - as good team members should do. However, IMO because of that incident the ship of Pedey being a team leader has has long since sailed. The team will respect him for what he does but they won't be trusting him to have their backs, and having his players backs is one of the biggest requirements of a "Team Leader".

 

I couldn't agree more.

[cp176]

Pedroia will give you everything he has game in and game out. And if you are looking for a leader by example, he could be that.

 

But if your your looking for a guy to motivate, inspire and pick up other guys on the team, he is not the guy. Never has been and never will. Just not part of his dna.

 

Sad because when you think back to his rookie season and how badly he struggled and how many guys had his back when he needed it most. Now to know that he will never be a guy to have a teammates back.

 

But pedroia does give you everything he has!

 

yup

[notin]

The fact the PD said he was a leader back in July doesn't make him one.

 

I know I related on this board the reluctance of the media people and Brian Butterfield to respond to the question of, "How did 'It's not me, it's them' play in the clubhouse?". The only one to respond was Butterfield which was appropriate because he was the only one of the four people there to have been in the clubhouse.

 

To capsulize Butter's response, it was that Pedey is one of the senior members of the team. He has a well earned reputation for showing up early and working hard and that gets him "a lot of slack in the clubhouse". (That's a part of Butter's statement that I remember verbatim).

 

My interpretation of that is that the clubhouse didn't like it one bit but they're deferring to Pedey's longevity and work ethic and not making a public issue of it - as good team members should do. However, IMO because of that incident the ship of Pedey being a team leader has has long since sailed. The team will respect him for what he does but they won't be trusting him to have their backs, and having his players backs is one of the biggest requirements of a "Team Leader".

 

But this is only one interpretation. None of us really know the entire story, yet it continues to resurface as if we do...

[Bellhorn04]

Pedroia will give you everything he has game in and game out. And if you are looking for a leader by example, he could be that.

 

But if your your looking for a guy to motivate, inspire and pick up other guys on the team, he is not the guy. Never has been and never will. Just not part of his dna.

 

Sad because when you think back to his rookie season and how badly he struggled and how many guys had his back when he needed it most. Now to know that he will never be a guy to have a teammates back.

 

But pedroia does give you everything he has!

 

Pedroia raised some eyebrows in 2012 when he stuck up for Youkilis vs. Valentine...saying something like 'That's not how we do things here'...basically calling Valentine an asshat LOL

[moonslav59]

The fact the PD said he was a leader back in July doesn't make him one.

 

I know I related on this board the reluctance of the media people and Brian Butterfield to respond to the question of, "How did 'It's not me, it's them' play in the clubhouse?". The only one to respond was Butterfield which was appropriate because he was the only one of the four people there to have been in the clubhouse.

 

To capsulize Butter's response, it was that Pedey is one of the senior members of the team. He has a well earned reputation for showing up early and working hard and that gets him "a lot of slack in the clubhouse". (That's a part of Butter's statement that I remember verbatim).

 

My interpretation of that is that the clubhouse didn't like it one bit but they're deferring to Pedey's longevity and work ethic and not making a public issue of it - as good team members should do. However, IMO because of that incident the ship of Pedey being a team leader has has long since sailed. The team will respect him for what he does but they won't be trusting him to have their backs, and having his players backs is one of the biggest requirements of a "Team Leader".

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

If a leader has to tell the world he is a leader, then something is wrong.

[illinoisredsox]

Yes, I believe he was in that case.

 

He was not being a leader when he cut up the unis, however.

 

Yeah he was; did you see those things? He just acted on what every member of the White Sox was thinking that day.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

 

Betts says it will take ‘4, 5, 6 guys’ to fill the leadership void left by Ortiz. ‘’That tells you how important he was.’

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

 

Bogaerts on 2017: ‘The quicker we move on, the better for us.’ Suggests there were a lot of things going on with the team, but declined to get into specifics.

[moonslav59]

Yeah he was; did you see those things? He just acted on what every member of the White Sox was thinking that day.

 

I agree, although there might have been a better way to demonstrate the team's disgust.

[moonslav59]

@alexspeier

 

Bogaerts on 2017: ‘The quicker we move on, the better for us.’ Suggests there were a lot of things going on with the team, but declined to get into specifics.

 

Now, do the JF supporters understand why he was let go?

[sk7326]

Now, do the JF supporters understand why he was let go?

 

There was obviously a reason - but I suspect our diagnoses were different ...

[mvp 78]

Now, do the JF supporters understand why he was let go?

 

He should have been let go after 2016, but whatever. He's gone and instead of re-litigating at which point he should have been let go, I'm just going to be excited to see what Cora can do.

[sk7326]

I suspect the clubhouse was not a fun place to work by the end of 2017 ... and when you have a young team, that can often a problem.

[mvp 78]

I agree, although there might have been a better way to demonstrate the team's disgust.

 

IDK. That's the best way to solve the problem without fail.

 

"Hey, we don't like these uni's and we don't want to wear them."

 

"Too bad. We bought them. You wear them."

 

"Ok, here's some scissors."

 

"s***."