2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[devildavid]

I'm ok with the bench guy starting for a week give or take a few days, but any longer than that then you need to either look outside the organization for a better option or you play the banged-up star if he makes your team better. All things considered.

 

And one of the ways you figure that out is by looking at the numbers. If a banged up star is playing at below replacement level due to the injury, there are better options.

[devildavid]

trying being playing through the hand thing - wish he were a bit better defensively ... though on whole the team was excellent on that side

 

The team was not excellent on that side defensively. Third base defense was terrible and SS defense was average at best.

[sk7326]

The team was not excellent on that side defensively. Third base defense was terrible and SS defense was average at best.

 

When I said "that side of the ball", I meant overall - 3rd base/SS was not great ... actually, for fun ... going by position. (the Red Sox led the bigs in UZR)

 

Catcher: 1st

1st Base: 10th

2nd Base: 3rd

3rd Base: 24th

Shortstop: 17th

Left Field: 20th

Center Field: 5th

Right Field: 1st (BY A LOT)

 

I expect Benintendi to get better in LF. Bogaerts is probably what he is - an okay defensive shortstop who needs to hit to be the 4-win player he has shown in 2015-16. Third Base will be on Devers to improve.

[Hugh2]

And one of the ways you figure that out is by looking at the numbers. If a banged up star is playing at below replacement level due to the injury, there are better options.

 

I completely wholeheartedly agree, which is why I said I'm ok with the Utility guy starting for short stints. But there's a reason why teams go out and get a Todd Frazier when their 3rd baseman goes down.

 

It just so happens that this team thought a guy named Rafael Devers was ready, or at the very least deserved the shot. But if the Red Sox didn't have a Rafael Devers I could've seen them being much more aggresive in the Frazier sweepstakes, or someone else who could start. Teams in general like to keep utility players utillity players. If you have to rely on your utility guy starting you're likely a team that isn't competing..

[devildavid]

it is like trying to time the stock market. I think the team is better off with the banged up star than the bench player.

 

But in this case you have insider information on the severity of the injury.

[devildavid]

When I said "that side of the ball", I meant overall - 3rd base/SS was not great ... actually, for fun ... going by position. (the Red Sox led the bigs in UZR)

 

Catcher: 1st

1st Base: 10th

2nd Base: 3rd

3rd Base: 24th

Shortstop: 17th

Left Field: 20th

Center Field: 5th

Right Field: 1st (BY A LOT)

 

I expect Benintendi to get better in LF. Bogaerts is probably what he is - an okay defensive shortstop who needs to hit to be the 4-win player he has shown in 2015-16. Third Base will be on Devers to improve.

 

I took it wrong. Yes, defensively the Sox were very good as a team.

[devildavid]

I completely wholeheartedly agree, which is why I said I'm ok with the Utility guy starting for short stints. But there's a reason why teams go out and get a Todd Frazier when their 3rd baseman goes down.

 

It just so happens that this team thought a guy named Rafael Devers was ready, or at the very least deserved the shot. But if the Red Sox didn't have a Rafael Devers I could've seen them being much more aggresive in the Frazier sweepstakes, or someone else who could start. Teams in general like to keep utility players utillity players. If you have to rely on your utility guy starting you're likely a team that isn't competing..

 

But the tricky thing is with these borderline injuries that aren't completely debilitating but cause a major drop off in production. It is possible to get a good performance out of a bench player, but you need some luck as well.

[Bellhorn04]

But the tricky thing is with these borderline injuries that aren't completely debilitating but cause a major drop off in production.

 

It has to be very tricky, even for the managers, who have more info about it than anybody.

[a700hitter]

But in this case you have insider information on the severity of the injury.

But you really don't know how well the player will play with the injury or adjust to playing with the injury. Some guys play very well when they are banged up. And very often the bench player is not as good as the banged up star.

[oldtimer]

But you really don't know how well the player will play with the injury or adjust to playing with the injury. Some guys play very well when they are banged up. And very often the bench player is not as good as the banged up star.

 

When the player is a former star and making $13 mil/yr it further complicates things. Pedey deserves the benefit of the doubt but realistically can't be expected to play much more than 1/2 the season if he does recover enough to make a positive contribution while he is healthy. I am not against startig him and backing him up with a super utility player like a Nunez.

[a700hitter]

When the player is a former star and making $13 mil/yr it further complicates things. Pedey deserves the benefit of the doubt but realistically can't be expected to play much more than 1/2 the season if he does recover enough to make a positive contribution while he is healthy. I am not against startig him and backing him up with a super utility player like a Nunez.

I was discussing XB who is still in his prime. It is a different story when a player is over the hill or almost over the hill. They need an occasional day or days off to keep them from breaking down.

[jacksonianmarch]

When the player is a former star and making $13 mil/yr it further complicates things. Pedey deserves the benefit of the doubt but realistically can't be expected to play much more than 1/2 the season if he does recover enough to make a positive contribution while he is healthy. I am not against startig him and backing him up with a super utility player like a Nunez.

 

You guys keep harping on his contract. I think all sox fans should LOVE his contract. He played on a 6 yr $40.5 mil contract from 09-14 and racked up 32.3 WAR in that time. Per FG, he was worth $207 mil over that contract

 

He was signed to the extension in 2013 but it didn't start until 2015. Thus far, in the first 3 years of that contract, he has been worth $78.9 mil even in his battered state. He took a discount for security with his first contract and took a discount for longevity with the second one. You cannot in any way shape or form be pissed at Pedey for his contract now. He easily could have left for more money or held the sox hostage for a $20 mil per annum contract. His 2014 season was really good and if the sox wanted to keep him on the open market, theyd have paid him far more

[a700hitter]

You guys keep harping on his contract. I think all sox fans should LOVE his contract. He played on a 6 yr $40.5 mil contract from 09-14 and racked up 32.3 WAR in that time. Per FG, he was worth $207 mil over that contract

 

He was signed to the extension in 2013 but it didn't start until 2015. Thus far, in the first 3 years of that contract, he has been worth $78.9 mil even in his battered state. He took a discount for security with his first contract and took a discount for longevity with the second one. You cannot in any way shape or form be pissed at Pedey for his contract now. He easily could have left for more money or held the sox hostage for a $20 mil per annum contract. His 2014 season was really good and if the sox wanted to keep him on the open market, theyd have paid him far more

His contract was a good deal for the team, and it in no way hamstrung our FO financially. There are other big contracts that yielded no return. They are paying more to a guy Rusney Castillo, who will never get out of the minor leagues.

[notin]

Pedroia is going to be playing 2b for the Sox next season, despite his detractors.

 

It's exactly as Ben Franklin said way back when "Three things are certain in life - death, taxes and Dustin Pedroia at second base in Boston."

[notin]

Pedroia is fine. Thete are plenty of lesser performing players on worse deals.

 

I don't understand anyone who wants to dump Pedroia and bring in Duda. This was a good team. Why are people trying to clean house?

Edited October 16, 2017 by notin

[notin]

When the player is a former star and making $13 mil/yr it further complicates things. Pedey deserves the benefit of the doubt but realistically can't be expected to play much more than 1/2 the season if he does recover enough to make a positive contribution while he is healthy. I am not against startig him and backing him up with a super utility player like a Nunez.

 

The problem is it's hard to keep a guy like Nunez in a bench role, especially when his next team is his choice. Are we so excited when that superb is Brock Holt?

[moonslav59]

Pedroia is fine. Thete are plenty of lesser performing players on worse deals.

 

I don't understand anyone who wants to dump Pedroia and bring in Duda. This was a good team. Why are people trying to clean house?

 

I'm for dumping Moreland and Young and bringing in Martinez and Duda (plus Nunez, if possible).

 

Duda does not play 2B.

 

Maybe you meant "Doo Daa" as in anyone to play 2B?

[Kimmi]

Pedroia is fine. Thete are plenty of lesser performing players on worse deals.

 

I don't understand anyone who wants to dump Pedroia and bring in Duda. This was a good team. Why are people trying to clean house?

 

^^This.

[Northern Star]

Pedroia is fine. Thete are plenty of lesser performing players on worse deals.

 

I don't understand anyone who wants to dump Pedroia and bring in Duda. This was a good team. Why are people trying to clean house?

 

Not trying to clean house, trying to add an extension and two-car garage.

[moonslav59]

Not trying to clean house, trying to add an extension and two-car garage.

 

As long as it's not just an electric garage opener...

[Larry Cook]

What do we think about the Sox signing jake McGhee as a lefty for the bullpen this offseason?

[notin]

Not trying to clean house, trying to add an extension and two-car garage.

 

 

If the garage can play first and bat fifth, that's all we need.

 

Except possibly replacing the down payment. ..

[mvp 78]

Pedroia is going to be playing 2b for the Sox next season, despite his detractors.

 

It's exactly as Ben Franklin said way back when "Three things are certain in life - death, taxes and Dustin Pedroia at second base in Boston."

 

For how many games tho?

[sk7326]

Pedroia is fine. Thete are plenty of lesser performing players on worse deals.

 

I don't understand anyone who wants to dump Pedroia and bring in Duda. This was a good team. Why are people trying to clean house?

 

Fine is an extreme understatement ... if he's healthy he's still one of the league's best 2B. Unfortunately that is not an "if" we can take for granted. But he was a 5 win player as recently as 2016. His dropoff in performance has been from "Top 10 player" to "Top 10 2nd baseman"

[sk7326]

What do we think about the Sox signing jake McGhee as a lefty for the bullpen this offseason?

 

sure. but again, a wheelbarrow approach to the bullpen is the right way to do it - so I think they should sign any reliever who can strike out hitters.

[jacksonianmarch]

Fine is an extreme understatement ... if he's healthy he's still one of the league's best 2B. Unfortunately that is not an "if" we can take for granted. But he was a 5 win player as recently as 2016. His dropoff in performance has been from "Top 10 player" to "Top 10 2nd baseman"

 

He is at the point where he has a chronic condition in the knee. He will need to be managed going forward. Not having a legitimate backup infielder would be foolish for the sox. I think Pedey plays 100 games, maybe 110 max this year and has some well placed "DL" stints to keep him from looking like he did at season's end this year

[sk7326]

He is at the point where he has a chronic condition in the knee. He will need to be managed going forward. Not having a legitimate backup infielder would be foolish for the sox. I think Pedey plays 100 games, maybe 110 max this year and has some well placed "DL" stints to keep him from looking like he did at season's end this year

 

i agree - it behooves them to resign Nunez for a reason like this.

 

In the land of 13 man pitching staffs, we know the benches will be tiny - and you need multipositional skills. Nunez is a good fit for this.

[mvp 78]

Fine is an extreme understatement ... if he's healthy he's still one of the league's best 2B. Unfortunately that is not an "if" we can take for granted. But he was a 5 win player as recently as 2016. His dropoff in performance has been from "Top 10 player" to "Top 10 2nd baseman"

 

He was 19th in WAR in 2017. Top 10 isn't really one of the league's best imo.

[sk7326]

He was 19th in WAR in 2017. Top 10 isn't really one of the league's best imo.

 

WAR is a counting stat, so this runs right into the health caveat ... even then he was a 2 win player this past year, which justifies his salary. He was a 5 win player in 2016, which put him as one of the league's best position players. Given his injury history - of course you want someone of Nunez' quality on the roster. When he has been healthy, Pedroia has still been extremely effective.

[mvp 78]

He was the 6th best 2b per WAR in 2016. That was his highest WAR since 2011. Seems like an outlier to me.