A Realistic View at 2017 Part II

[mvp 78]

And let's not make this argument a referendum on whether Napoli is through, because on my list of 4, he was my 4th choice. The list might be longer than 4. I just threw them out off the top of my head. I stand by larger point -- that DD flubbed by not addressing the gaping hole left by Big Papi. On the positive side of the ledger for DD, he is not Ben who would have brought us more last place finishes.

 

If the Sox didn't already have Panda and Hanley's contracts, they would have signed EE.

[Slasher9]

And let's not make this argument a referendum on whether Napoli is through, because on my list of 4, he was my 4th choice. The list might be longer than 4. I just threw them out off the top of my head. I stand by larger point -- that DD flubbed by not addressing the gaping hole left by Big Papi. On the positive side of the ledger for DD, he is not Ben who would have brought us more last place finishes.

 

none of them were an option based on they suck and also the luxury tax threshold.

[a700hitter]

none of them were an option based on they suck and also the luxury tax threshold.

That they suck is your opinion. That Sale was the last piece. Of the puzzle is DD's opinion. I think you are both wrong.

[devildavid]

If the Sox didn't already have Panda and Hanley's contracts, they would have signed EE.

 

I think The Sox FO needs to build up an appetite for eating salary because those two contracts are hurting the team's ability to move on and retool the team post Ortiz.

[mvp 78]

I think The Sox FO needs to build up an appetite for eating salary because those two contracts are hurting the team's ability to move on and retool the team post Ortiz.

 

They'd be eating $42M+ for 18-19 on Sandoval's contract and $22M for one year of Hanley's salary. Granted, they are basically eating all of Castillo's contract while he putters around Pawtucket.

[Nick]

They'd be eating $42M+ for 18-19 on Sandoval's contract and $22M for one year of Hanley's salary. Granted, they are basically eating all of Castillo's contract while he putters around Pawtucket.[/QU

 

Hanley needs 1050 plate appearances in 2017/2018 and pass the physicals and he will have 2019 vested.

[Nick]

We need to get rid Brock Holt. Hell he's hurt all the time. I have migraine thinking about his issues. And we are suppose to get excited about HIS return? Good grief. How low have we sunk.

[moonslav59]

If Ben had just signed Lester, they wouldn't have felt the need to grab Price too.

 

They might have still signed Price and maybe not gone after Sale .

[moonslav59]

They'd be eating $42M+ for 18-19 on Sandoval's contract and $22M for one year of Hanley's salary. Granted, they are basically eating all of Castillo's contract while he putters around Pawtucket.

 

...and Craig's too, but at least Castillo's and Craig's contracts don't get luxury taxed.

[moonslav59]

We need to get rid Brock Holt. Hell he's hurt all the time. I have migraine thinking about his issues. And we are suppose to get excited about HIS return? Good grief. How low have we sunk.

 

Haven't you heard?

 

Brock is an all star!

[moonslav59]

soxprospects.com...

 

...The worst news of the evening came in the fifth inning when rehabbing third baseman Brock Holt had to leave the game due to a recurrence of vertigo symptoms. ...

 

Soulda- coulda-woulda traded him while his stock was inflated.

[devildavid]

soxprospects.com...

 

...The worst news of the evening came in the fifth inning when rehabbing third baseman Brock Holt had to leave the game due to a recurrence of vertigo symptoms. ...

 

Soulda- coulda-woulda traded him while his stock was inflated.

 

Brock is the least of their worries. He makes $1,950,000 this season and is not signed beyond that. The Sandoval and Ramirez contracts are tying up the 40 man roster and are a complete waste. Trade them or cut them, let the FO eat a heaping helping of salary and lets move on. Their contracts are a major roadblock to the team moving into the future of long term success. I'm sorry but looking at their contacts makes me feel sick about the future of the team.

[cp176]

With Travis heating up and Devers continuing to pound the ball, i'm ready for them both. Moreland looks more and more like a good option coming off the bench - a damn slow one but still an option. If we are going to struggle to score runs anyway, i would much prefer to see it be with a youth movement.

[oldtimer]

They'd be eating $42M+ for 18-19 on Sandoval's contract and $22M for one year of Hanley's salary. Granted, they are basically eating all of Castillo's contract while he putters around Pawtucket.[/QU

 

Hanley needs 1050 plate appearances in 2017/2018 and pass the physicals and he will have 2019 vested.

In retrospect, the FO made terrible decisions and JH is living with them. I don't blame him for not being reassured by the new fo's likelihood of getting it right the next time.

 

Craig

Catillo

Sandoval

Rameriz (at least he had one good year so far)

Price (7 years at $30 million, come on!)

 

Then we have the dismantling of our minor leagues which has to be considered a big loss in many ways including financial. Pomeranz, Thornburg, Smith)

 

If not for Sale and Kimbrel, I would say our FO doesn't have a clue.

[moonslav59]

In retrospect, the FO made terrible decisions and JH is living with them. I don't blame him for not being reassured by the new fo's likelihood of getting it right the next time.

 

Craig

Catillo

Sandoval

Rameriz (at least he had one good year so far)

Price (7 years at $30 million, come on!)

 

Then we have the dismantling of our minor leagues which has to be considered a big loss in many ways including financial. Pomeranz, Thornburg, Smith)

 

If not for Sale and Kimbrel, I would say our FO doesn't have a clue.

 

Castillo was a gamble that failed. That failure was more than offset by the success of the Moncada gamble that netted us Sale.

 

Craig was not the expected prize of the Lackey deal: Kelly was. There's still time for Kelly to turn that trade into a good one.

 

That Pablo-HRam signings were bad. One would have been understandable but not both.

 

To me, the biggest mistakes of Ben's tenure were Lester & Pablo.

[mvp 78]

In retrospect, the FO made terrible decisions and JH is living with them. I don't blame him for not being reassured by the new fo's likelihood of getting it right the next time.

 

Craig

Catillo

Sandoval

Rameriz (at least he had one good year so far)

Price (7 years at $30 million, come on!)

 

Then we have the dismantling of our minor leagues which has to be considered a big loss in many ways including financial. Pomeranz, Thornburg, Smith)

 

If not for Sale and Kimbrel, I would say our FO doesn't have a clue.

 

They blew up the team in 2012 and made some shrewd moves. When they blew up the team in 2014, they just trashed the place.

[harmony]

FanGraphs examines the respective needs of the Red Sox and Baltimore Orioles:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-coming-red-sox-orioles-bidding-war/

[moonslav59]

 

They blew up the team in 2012 and made some shrewd moves. When they blew up the team in 2014, they just trashed the place.

 

They got Cespedes (which netted us Porcello) and a draft pick the forfeited for HRam for Lester.

 

They got Kelly.

 

They got Hembree.

 

They got ERod.

 

I like what the Yanks got for their purge, but we didn't totally "trash" the place.

[mvp 78]

 

They got Cespedes (which netted us Porcello) and a draft pick the forfeited for HRam for Lester.

 

They got Kelly.

 

They got Hembree.

 

They got ERod.

 

I like what the Yanks got for their purge, but we didn't totally "trash" the place.

 

They won the WS and then went back to back with last place finishes. They trashed the place.

 

Lester for Porcello - downgrade

Miller for ERod - downgrade

Lackey for Kelly and Craig - downgrade

Peavy for Edwin Escobar and Hembree - whatever

 

Edwin Escobar was seen as the key to that Hembree trade and the guy was DFA'd. They basically lucked into an ok bullpen arm.

[Bellhorn04]

The trade of Miller for ERod could turn out to be one of Ben's best moves. Not re-signing Miller, OTOH, was a big mistake.

[moonslav59]

They won the WS and then went back to back with last place finishes. They trashed the place.

 

Lester for Porcello - downgrade-- Jury still out

Miller for ERod - downgrade-- 2 months of Miller for 4+ years of ERod is far from a downgrade. (We should have re-signed Miller and had both now!)

Lackey for Kelly and Craig - downgrade-- Again, 2 or 8 months of Lackey for 4+ years of Kelly is not cut and dry.

Peavy for Edwin Escobar and Hembree - whatever-- I'll take 2 months of Hembree over 2 months of Peavy, but we got way more months than 2.

 

These are not great moves, but they're not really "trash" either.

 

Edwin Escobar was seen as the key to that Hembree trade and the guy was DFA'd. They basically lucked into an ok bullpen arm.

 

I always thought Hembree had a better chance, but Peavy was worth nothing to us at the time of the trade.

[moonslav59]

The trade of Miller for ERod could turn out to be one of Ben's best moves. Not re-signing Miller, OTOH, was a big mistake.

 

We could have re-signed Lester too, and had Porcello & Lester (and Miller)!!!

[mvp 78]

Trashed. The. Place.

[moonslav59]

WAR since 2016:

6.0 Porcello

5.1 Lester

4.5 Price

3.4 Lackey

 

Since 2015....

 

13.9 Sale

10.9 Price

10.1 Lester

7.7 Porcello

7.0 Lackey

 

Lester is 33 and is owed $110M from this year to 2020 (age 36).

Porcello is 28 and is owed $62.4M until 2019 (age 30).

 

Not Trash!

[mvp 78]

WAR since 2016:

6.0 Porcello

5.1 Lester

4.5 Price

3.4 Lackey

 

Since 2015....

 

13.9 Sale

10.9 Price

10.1 Lester

7.7 Porcello

7.0 Lackey

 

Lester is 33 and is owed $110M from this year to 2020 (age 36).

Porcello is 28 and is owed $62.4M until 2019 (age 30).

 

Not Trash!

 

Trashed the place.

 

They downgraded to Porcello from Lester. They downgraded from Lackey to Kelly. The moves they made in 2014 and offseason of 2015 trashed the place.

[illinoisredsox]

WAR since 2016:

6.0 Porcello

5.1 Lester

4.5 Price

3.4 Lackey

 

Since 2015....

 

13.9 Sale

10.9 Price

10.1 Lester

7.7 Porcello

7.0 Lackey

 

Lester is 33 and is owed $110M from this year to 2020 (age 36).

Porcello is 28 and is owed $62.4M until 2019 (age 30).

 

Not Trash!

 

Give it up moon, his mind is made up. Nothing will change it.

[Spudboy]

I'm with MVP on this one.

 

To me, purging two top of the rotation pitchers like Lester and Horseface was inexplicably dumb. Yeah, both of them were getting into their 30s but both were and remain to this day very effective pitchers. Just dumb.

 

The Miller trade shocked me almost as much as it shocked Miller himself. I saw an interview with Miller as he was leaving the park after the trade. He could not believe it. He loved it here and wanted to remain.

 

The Sox did get a young arm that shows promise so it was not a total f***-up. Ask me how I feel about it 3-4 years from now.

 

They could have and should have gone after Miller at the end of the season. He wanted to play in Boston. They screwed this pooch too. Dumb.

[mvp 78]

Are they not still trying to clean up the mess from the 2014/2015 moves?

 

Was moving on from Lester the smartest play there? Maybe only if they were going to sign Max Scherzer that offseason.

 

Was dumping Lackey for next to nothing a smart play?

 

Was signing Pablo and Hanley in the same offseason the smart play?

 

Ben took a s*** all over 2014 and 2015. You don't have to look any further than the season standings to see that.

[Jack Flap]

I really didn't think anyone questioned the Miller/Rodriguez trade any more. Six years of a promising SP prospect for 2 months of a soon-to-be-free-agent reliever on a garbage team going nowhere? I don't care if Eduardo is DFA'd tomorrow and never pitches for us again, I'd still make that trade 11 times out of 10.

[mvp 78]

I really didn't think anyone questioned the Miller/Rodriguez trade any more. Six years of a promising SP prospect for 2 months of a soon-to-be-free-agent reliever on a garbage team going nowhere? I don't care if Eduardo is DFA'd tomorrow and never pitches for us again, I'd still make that trade 11 times out of 10.

 

Would you have rather lowballed Lester they way Ben did or re-signed him to the Cubs contract?

 

Would you have rather signed Pablo and Hanley or gone in a different direction (Headley)?