A Realistic View at 2017 Part II

[cp176]

Imo, the Sox don't have to pull their hair over starting the clock. Their owners aren't struggling to make payroll.

 

Wait a second - they have a budget just like the rest of us. lol Or maybe they don't! i think that we worry more about their budget than they do.

[Nick]

Wait a second - they have a budget just like the rest of us. lol Or maybe they don't! i think that we worry more about their budget than they do.

 

$190M isn't what it use to be.......

 

Price $31M on DL..why is he mad at the world?

Hanley $22M DH only....Ortiz was a bargain

Pablo $17M rehab assignment coming

Allen Craig $11M ....don't quit your day job anytime soon. (yeah I know he's not on 40 man roster)

R Castillo $11M.....akin to my summer intern getting paid more than me...(how many guys can we have off the 40 man roster?)

Edited May 10, 2017 by Nick

[Nick]

Can we trade for some pitching help RIGHT NOW so we have some depth for 2019?

 

Red Sox blueprint......trade for a pitcher, get him a mandatory Tommy John surgery, place him on a 14 month rehab schedule, add another 3 months for Sox only shoulder strengthening regiment backfiring.

 

And make sure he's under team control for 3 years so we can get one year of production.

 

T it up, son.

[Bellhorn04]

Umm, are you unaware of the impending cliff???!!!

 

I choose to think of it as the waterfall.

[Bellhorn04]

Can we trade for some pitching help RIGHT NOW so we have some depth for 2019?

 

Red Sox blueprint......trade for a pitcher, get him a mandatory Tommy John surgery, place him on a 14 month rehab schedule, add another 3 months for Sox only shoulder strengthening regiment backfiring.

 

And make sure he's under team control for 3 years so we can get one year of production.

 

T it up, son.

 

Ouch.

[cp176]

$190M isn't what it use to be.......

 

Price $31M on DL..why is he mad at the world?

Hanley $22M DH only....Ortiz was a bargain

Pablo $17M rehab assignment coming

Allen Craig $11M ....don't quit your day job anytime soon. (yeah I know he's not on 40 man roster)

R Castillo $11M.....akin to my summer intern getting paid more than me...(how many guys can we have off the 40 man roster?)

 

Hubba Hubba give me some of that cash. but remember you can't kick someone in the ass if they continually make mental mistakes. They got rights to.

[Emp9]

I choose to think of it as the waterfall.

 

LOL

 

Maybe just a steep hill, with no brakes, going towards an intersection?

[oldtimer]

Can we trade for some pitching help RIGHT NOW so we have some depth for 2019?

 

Red Sox blueprint......trade for a pitcher, get him a mandatory Tommy John surgery, place him on a 14 month rehab schedule, add another 3 months for Sox only shoulder strengthening regiment backfiring.

 

And make sure he's under team control for 3 years so we can get one year of production.

 

T it up, son.

 

Sounds like the Sox might improve their regimen for pitchers. We sure have a sorry mess right now.

[moonslav59]

No agenda- No statements- Just some data....

 

Here is a rundown on how recently traded Sox players and prospects are doing so far this year:

 

For Chris Sale:

Y Moncada (AAA):.345/.419/.549/.967

M Kopech (AA): 3.30 ERA/1.100 WHIP (12.6 K/9)

L Basabe (A+): .242/.337/.363/.699

 

 

For Thornburg (On DL):

Travis Shaw: .265/.310/.538/.848 (7 HR, 10 2B+3B and 25 RBI in 30 gms)

M. Dubon (AA): .677 OPS

J. Pennington (A-): 2.86 ERA/1.165 WHIP and 7.8 K/9

 

For Pomeranz:

A Espinoza (A?): No data

 

For Kimbrel:

M Margot: .274/.327/.407/.734 (3 HR and 11 RBI in 147 PAs)

J Guerra (A+): .498 OPS

L Allen (A): 2.17 ERA/1.034 WHIP (12.1 K/9)

C Asuaje (AAA): .649 OPS in 129 PAs/ MLB .532 OPS in 25 PAs

[mvp 78]

No agenda- No statements- Just some data....

 

Here is a rundown on how recently traded Sox players and prospects are doing so far this year:

 

For Chris Sale:

Y Moncada (AAA):.345/.419/.549/.967

M Kopech (AA): 3.30 ERA/1.100 WHIP (12.6 K/9)

L Basabe (A+): .242/.337/.363/.699

 

 

For Thornburg (On DL):

Travis Shaw: .265/.310/.538/.848 (7 HR, 10 2B+3B and 25 RBI in 30 gms)

M. Dubon (AA): .677 OPS

J. Pennington (A-): 2.86 ERA/1.165 WHIP and 7.8 K/9

 

For Pomeranz:

A Espinoza (A?): No data

 

For Kimbrel:

M Margot: .274/.327/.407/.734 (3 HR and 11 RBI in 147 PAs)

J Guerra (A+): .498 OPS

L Allen (A): 2.17 ERA/1.034 WHIP (12.1 K/9)

C Asuaje (AAA): .649 OPS in 129 PAs/ MLB .532 OPS in 25 PAs

 

Moncada still hasn't improved his K rate. Kopech still hasn't improved his BB rate. Espinoza is "no data" because he's on the DL with forearm tightness. He's been shut down until late May at least.

[oldtimer]

No agenda- No statements- Just some data....

 

Here is a rundown on how recently traded Sox players and prospects are doing so far this year:

 

For Chris Sale:

Y Moncada (AAA):.345/.419/.549/.967

M Kopech (AA): 3.30 ERA/1.100 WHIP (12.6 K/9)

L Basabe (A+): .242/.337/.363/.699

 

 

For Thornburg (On DL):

Travis Shaw: .265/.310/.538/.848 (7 HR, 10 2B+3B and 25 RBI in 30 gms)

M. Dubon (AA): .677 OPS

J. Pennington (A-): 2.86 ERA/1.165 WHIP and 7.8 K/9

 

For Pomeranz:

A Espinoza (A?): No data

 

For Kimbrel:

M Margot: .274/.327/.407/.734 (3 HR and 11 RBI in 147 PAs)

J Guerra (A+): .498 OPS

L Allen (A): 2.17 ERA/1.034 WHIP (12.1 K/9)

C Asuaje (AAA): .649 OPS in 129 PAs/ MLB .532 OPS in 25 PAs

 

If you look at who we picked up in the last few years and their value to the team vs money or trade value paid I would list them as follows:

 

Sale (5 stars)

Porcello (5 stars)

Kimbrel (5 stars)

Price (2 stars)

Pomeranz (2 stars)

Thornburg (0 stars)

Smith (0 stars)

Moreland (3 stars)

Young (3 stars)

Leon (2 stars)

Sandoval (-3 stars)

Craig (- 3 stars)

Castillo (- 3 stars)

 

Some very good acquisitions here but also a lot of misses for big money and a depletion of our farm system. Still we haven't solved our 3rd base situation and I really didn't try to list all the secondary players that have come through but there were a few others. Still having a problem with JBJ. Would a trade finding him getting his mojo back? If so that might put a bad light on our coaching.

 

I am bothered as how we pick up pitchers only to have them on the DL for extended periods. Is our pitching program that grueling or our we dumbly taking on guys with known issues? Also how is it we trade an infielder and another team can work magic on him (Travis Shaw) when we have been unable? Is there a coaching problem here?

[Jasonbay44]

 

I am bothered as how we pick up pitchers only to have them on the DL for extended periods. Is our pitching program that grueling or our we dumbly taking on guys with known issues? Also how is it we trade an infielder and another team can work magic on him (Travis Shaw) when we have been unable? Is there a coaching problem here?

What magic was worked on Shaw? He's the same player and did exactly for the Sox last season that he is doing for the Brewers now. On June 1st last year, his OPS was .850. He's off to a nice start, but the same thing happened last year before he fell off a cliff.

[Bellhorn04]

What magic was worked on Shaw? He's the same player and did exactly for the Sox last season that he is doing for the Brewers now. On June 1st last year, his OPS was .850. He's off to a nice start, but the same thing happened last year before he fell off a cliff.

 

He's not that old, mind you.

[moonslav59]

If you look at who we picked up in the last few years and their value to the team vs money or trade value paid I would list them as follows:

 

Sale (5 stars)

Porcello (5 stars)

Kimbrel (5 stars)

Price (2 stars)

Pomeranz (2 stars)

Thornburg (0 stars)

Smith (0 stars)

Moreland (3 stars)

Young (3 stars)

Leon (2 stars)

Sandoval (-3 stars)

Craig (- 3 stars)

Castillo (- 3 stars)

 

Some very good acquisitions here but also a lot of misses for big money and a depletion of our farm system. Still we haven't solved our 3rd base situation and I really didn't try to list all the secondary players that have come through but there were a few others. Still having a problem with JBJ. Would a trade finding him getting his mojo back? If so that might put a bad light on our coaching.

 

I am bothered as how we pick up pitchers only to have them on the DL for extended periods. Is our pitching program that grueling or our we dumbly taking on guys with known issues? Also how is it we trade an infielder and another team can work magic on him (Travis Shaw) when we have been unable? Is there a coaching problem here?

 

No way would I have the same star ranking for Sale and Kimbrel (or Porcello & Kimbrel).

 

How can you have Sandoval with more stars than Price? If you based it on reputation at the time of the acquisition, Price would be 5 and maybe Sandy a 3. If it's in hindsight, Price would be 2-3 and Pablo negative 5.

 

Why rank Pablo and not HRam?

[mvp 78]

I am bothered as how we pick up pitchers only to have them on the DL for extended periods. Is our pitching program that grueling or our we dumbly taking on guys with known issues? Also how is it we trade an infielder and another team can work magic on him (Travis Shaw) when we have been unable? Is there a coaching problem here?

 

Look at the DL around the league. Everyone is hurt this year. At least our rotation is in better shape than Seattle's.

[moonslav59]

Moncada still hasn't improved his K rate. Kopech still hasn't improved his BB rate. Espinoza is "no data" because he's on the DL with forearm tightness. He's been shut down until late May at least.

 

Moncada's K rate in AA last year was 31%.

 

His K rate in AAA this year is 26%.

 

Jeff Todd wrote this today:

White Sox GM Rick Hahn shot down the idea that top prospect Yoan Moncada will push his way onto the MLB roster early this year, as Dan Hayes of CSN Chicago reports. All signs are pointing up for Moncada, who has tamped down on the strikeouts while showing signs of polishing up his defensive game. But that doesn’t mean the club is prepared to make an aggressive promotion. “He’s shown a fair amount of progress in each of those areas that we’ve asked of him,” said GM Rick Hahn. “That said, we want to see that over an extended period of time. It’s awfully important to not lose sight of the fact this is a 21-year-old player, one who was not playing two years ago as of right now. It’s a guy who has fewer than 325 or so plate appearances above A-ball.” Given that, says Hahn, the club won’t “rush” Moncada’s ascension.

[mvp 78]

I was looking at his full MILB 2016 stats vs 2017, which is the exact same K rate (26%). Edited May 10, 2017 by mvp 78

[moonslav59]

I was looking at his full MILB 2016 stats vs 2017, which is the exact same K rate (26%).

 

Fair enough.

[Nick]

Wasn't there a fourth player involved in Sale trade. A pitcher.

[harmony]

Wasn't there a fourth player involved in Sale trade. A pitcher.

The White Sox traded Chris Sale for Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe and pitcher Victor Diaz:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/salech01.shtml#all_transactions_other

[devildavid]

My guess is most team's stats are greatly helped by 2-3 games- not just the Sox.

 

The only difference was we had our 2 big games later than others.

 

And that is a big difference. The Sox scored 35 runs in the last three games and went 2-1. Meanwhile, the Yankees have had 6 double digit scoring games and 7 games scoring 7 to 9 runs. All 13 of these games were wins for them. The Sox have had 2 double digit scoring games and 5 with 7 to 9 runs. Their record in those games is 6 and 1. It's depressing to see the no-name Yankees outhitting and outscoring what should be a very good Sox offense. It is really getting frustrating.

[moonslav59]

Wasn't there a fourth player involved in Sale trade. A pitcher.

 

Yes, and Victor Diaz has not pitched any this season- so far.

[moonslav59]

And that is a big difference. The Sox scored 35 runs in the last three games and went 2-1. Meanwhile, the Yankees have had 6 double digit scoring games and 7 games scoring 7 to 9 runs. All 13 of these games were wins for them. The Sox have had 2 double digit scoring games and 5 with 7 to 9 runs. Their record in those games is 6 and 1. It's depressing to see the no-name Yankees outhitting and outscoring what should be a very good Sox offense. It is really getting frustrating.

 

It is frustrating for all of us Sox fans, but the season is a long one.

 

An optimist might look at all the injuries, illnesses and family leave days we've lost along side still having a winning record and think we're not so bad off.

[Nick]

Looking at September schedule

 

We conclude by traveling to Cincy for 3, return home for 3 vs Blue Jays and 4 vs Houston.

We only play Yankees and Orioles 3 times each, but on the road.

We have six games versus the Rays and Blue Jays.

 

We face the Yankees first in September so we may have to depend on others to keep them in check as season winds down.

 

I think this is pretty favorable. Hopefully we'll still be thick of things. AND EVERYONE IS HEALTHY, including Price, Thornburg and Smith.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Looking at September schedule

 

We conclude by traveling to Cincy for 3, return home for 3 vs Blue Jays and 4 vs Houston.

We only play Yankees and Orioles 3 times each, but on the road.

We have six games versus the Rays and Blue Jays.

 

We face the Yankees first in September so we may have to depend on others to keep them in check as season winds down.

 

I think this is pretty favorable. Hopefully we'll still be thick of things. AND EVERYONE IS HEALTHY, including Price, Thornburg and Smith.

 

Here's the worst stretch:

 

Starting AUG 15

2 v STL

3 v NYY

4 @ CLE

3 v BAL

3 @ TOR

4 @ NYY ending SEPT 3

[devildavid]

It is frustrating for all of us Sox fans, but the season is a long one.

 

An optimist might look at all the injuries, illnesses and family leave days we've lost along side still having a winning record and think we're not so bad off.

 

And to make matters worse, as the hitting has improved the pitching has gotten worse.

Month of May: 4.81 ERA, .273 BA against, 1.335 WHIP. In 78.2 IP they have given up 85 hits and 42 ER. The pitching carried the team in April. Time for the hitting to step up big time because they're going to need it.

[moonslav59]

And to make matters worse, as the hitting has improved the pitching has gotten worse.

Month of May: 4.81 ERA, .273 BA against, 1.335 WHIP. In 78.2 IP they have given up 85 hits and 42 ER. The pitching carried the team in April. Time for the hitting to step up big time because they're going to need it.

 

I think the pitching will come around (again), especially when Price and one of our two good RP'ers return.

[oldtimer]

Perhaps there should be a separate thread on base running. The Sox have had a ton of outright mistakes this year and today was no different. First we had a lack of movement on a ball hit to second and dropped. The runner then came back to first, not seeing or being coached about the dropped ball and to make mattters worse, Moreland was doubled up not able to get up the line in time. It was a tough play but we looked bad.

 

Much worse was Pedroia. You have to criticize a guy who has just hit a double, but then he could have easily gone to 3rd on a ball that got away from the catcher but didn't appear to be paying attention. That cost us a run as there was a single by Bogaerts. Might have cost us the game but fortuneately not. That gaff was later compounded by Pedroia trying to stretch a single into a double. Somebody tell him, he isn't that fast. I didn't see the game the previous night but understand he also ran the bases poorly then as well.

 

Today is just one of many incidents this year. You wouldn't expect one of your most experienced players to be so careless.

 

Thanks to good pitching and Betts, we won and we needed to.

[cp176]

What worries me just a little is that I fully understand that you cannot win a pennant in April or May but you sure as the devil can dig a whole too big to crawl out of. They need to get series wins over the teams that they should beat. it is a marathon for sure but you just can't ho hum losses at this time of year either. i like the fact that Kimbrel is being brought in when he should be brought in.

[moonslav59]

Perhaps there should be a separate thread on base running. The Sox have had a ton of outright mistakes this year and today was no different. First we had a lack of movement on a ball hit to second and dropped. The runner then came back to first, not seeing or being coached about the dropped ball and to make mattters worse, Moreland was doubled up not able to get up the line in time. It was a tough play but we looked bad.

 

Much worse was Pedroia. You have to criticize a guy who has just hit a double, but then he could have easily gone to 3rd on a ball that got away from the catcher but didn't appear to be paying attention. That cost us a run as there was a single by Bogaerts. Might have cost us the game but fortuneately not. That gaff was later compounded by Pedroia trying to stretch a single into a double. Somebody tell him, he isn't that fast. I didn't see the game the previous night but understand he also ran the bases poorly then as well.

 

Today is just one of many incidents this year. You wouldn't expect one of your most experienced players to be so careless.

 

Thanks to good pitching and Betts, we won and we needed to.

 

Pedey has not just lost speed.

 

I'm still thinking he should not bat first or second anymore.