A Realistic View at 2017 Part II

[Emp9]

Yes, thed lead runners were in a pickle though. If they run and the ball is caught, they can be caught off base. If they don't run, then Moreland is out if tagged first and then second base is tagged to put Pedroia out. If they play it half way,then probably only one of them is an easy out if the ball is dropped with the other likely advancing. If the ball is caught then probably one of them gets back safel. JBJ definitely should have run to first and if the ball is dropped take the bag. He and the first base coach were guilty of not thinking.

 

We were screwed either way. The infield fly rule never took effect because the umps wanted to go home apparently. The O's got awarded the ultimate defensive prize for literally dropping the f***ing ball.

[Slasher9]

here is what the runners should have done on that pop fly:

MM: needs to be 4 steps off 2nd base. the second the ball is caught he needs to hustle back to the bag. if the ball drops he needs to put his head down and run to 3rd.

pedroia: needs to be close to halfway. if the ball is dropped put his head down and run/slide into 2nd. if the ball is caught hustle back to first.

JBj - needs to run through first base and the second the ball drops get back to the bag and claim it.

all 3 EFFED up royally on this play.

[moonslav59]

Have I ever mentioned I'm so freakin' glad we have...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

[Fisk]

here is what the runners should have done on that pop fly:

MM: needs to be 4 steps off 2nd base. the second the ball is caught he needs to hustle back to the bag. if the ball drops he needs to put his head down and run to 3rd.

pedroia: needs to be close to halfway. if the ball is dropped put his head down and run/slide into 2nd. if the ball is caught hustle back to first.

JBj - needs to run through first base and the second the ball drops get back to the bag and claim it.

all 3 EFFED up royally on this play.

 

Exactly

[moonslav59]

here is what the runners should have done on that pop fly:

MM: needs to be 4 steps off 2nd base. the second the ball is caught he needs to hustle back to the bag. if the ball drops he needs to put his head down and run to 3rd.

pedroia: needs to be close to halfway. if the ball is dropped put his head down and run/slide into 2nd. if the ball is caught hustle back to first.

JBj - needs to run through first base and the second the ball drops get back to the bag and claim it.

all 3 EFFED up royally on this play.

 

What does that tell you about a team that has already demonstrated they are lacking in the fundamentals?

 

3 guys make mental mistakes on one play!

 

I'm usually the last to call for a managerial change, but I'm close to being for it right now.

[Station 13]

#2 in ERA, without Price, mixed in with the shittiest defensive infield I've seen in my life.

[moonslav59]

#2 in ERA, without Price, mixed in with the shittiest defensive infield I've seen in my life.

 

Even Moreland has looked bad.

 

Bad defense sickens me.

 

[a700hitter]

Have I ever mentioned I'm so freakin' glad we have...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

But what about the 2021 Cliff?

[moonslav59]

But what about the 2021 Cliff?

 

I blame that on the Pom and Kimbrel trades.

 

This is...

 

Chris Freakin' Sale

 

...we're talkin' about!

[oldtimer]

What does that tell you about a team that has already demonstrated they are lacking in the fundamentals?

 

3 guys make mental mistakes on one play!

 

I'm usually the last to call for a managerial change, but I'm close to being for it right now.

 

Actually, it was 4 guys, as the first base coach should have been screaming directions as well.

[moonslav59]

Actually, it was 4 guys, as the first base coach should have been screaming directions as well.

 

I didn't notice, if he was screaming or not. Even if he was, they might not hear him.

 

JBJ should not be told he has to run to 1B.

 

The other two were in a difficult position, but even little leaguers know that when the ball drops- you RUN!

[Emp9]

here is what the runners should have done on that pop fly:

MM: needs to be 4 steps off 2nd base. the second the ball is caught he needs to hustle back to the bag. if the ball drops he needs to put his head down and run to 3rd.

pedroia: needs to be close to halfway. if the ball is dropped put his head down and run/slide into 2nd. if the ball is caught hustle back to first.

JBj - needs to run through first base and the second the ball drops get back to the bag and claim it.

all 3 EFFED up royally on this play.

 

sighs...you're not wrong here. It's just that it's pretty obvious that the Infield Fly rule should've been called. It's not like the ball wasn't high enough. It's not like I'm here asking for special treatment from the umps. That play is exactly why that rule exists in the first place. It didn't cost us the game or anything. I'm hoping it's a good lessen to learn for the future, at the same time didn't really hurt us.

[dgalehouse]

1- Hardy messed up a similar play the night before. He looked to be struggling with this one too. That could be why the infield fly rule was not called. 2- The players and coaches should be aware as to whether or not it was called. 3- If it was called and the ball dropped in , fans would be complaining about that. 4- No matter how you slice it , it was bad baseball by the players and coaches involved. Not the umpires fault at all.

[moonslav59]

1- Hardy messed up a similar play the night before. He looked to be struggling with this one too. That could be why the infield fly rule was not called. 2- The players and coaches should be aware as to whether or not it was called. 3- If it was called and the ball dropped in , fans would be complaining about that. 4- No matter how you slice it , it was bad baseball by the players and coaches involved. Not the umpires fault at all.

 

It's also possible the defender can fake like he's having difficulty in order for the ump to not call the infield fly rule.

[S5Dewey]

1- Hardy messed up a similar play the night before. He looked to be struggling with this one too. That could be why the infield fly rule was not called. 2- The players and coaches should be aware as to whether or not it was called. 3- If it was called and the ball dropped in , fans would be complaining about that. 4- No matter how you slice it , it was bad baseball by the players and coaches involved. Not the umpires fault at all.

We're going to disagree on this. Hardy went back on the ball, then put his hand up like he was going to make the catch. That's when the umpires should have called the Infield Fly. While all of this was happening the runners were standing around waiting for the umpires to call the IF Fly... and they didn't. By the time they figured out that it wasn't going to be called it was too late.

 

I can fault Moreland for not being awake on the bases and JBJ for not running the play out, but the umpires have some culpability here too.

[dgalehouse]

We're going to disagree on this. Hardy went back on the ball, then put his hand up like he was going to make the catch. That's when the umpires should have called the Infield Fly. While all of this was happening the runners were standing around waiting for the umpires to call the IF Fly... and they didn't. By the time they figured out that it wasn't going to be called it was too late.

 

I can fault Moreland for not being awake on the bases and JBJ for not running the play out, but the umpires have some culpability here too.

 

Well , Hardy did the same thing the previous night and the ball fell behind him. Watching this play unfold , I did not even think about the infield fly rule. I wonder how many really did ? I just thought Hardy screwed up again. I do think that if the infield fly rule was called , and Hardy failed to catch the ball, Sox fans would be complaining that it should not have been called. The umps make the split second decision. We can form our opinions after the results are known.

[cp176]

I am just absolutely appalled at this team's inability to mentally do the things that kids are taught before they are 15. i'm not going to blame all of the baserunning gaffs and the apparent misunderstanding of the rules of the game on the coaching staff either. If they are professionals, they have been taught what they need to do. Fielding errors, continued baselining mistakes combined with the lack of hitting is sickening. I say over rated!

[moonslav59]

I am just absolutely appalled at this team's inability to mentally do the things that kids are taught before they are 15. i'm not going to blame all of the baserunning gaffs and the apparent misunderstanding of the rules of the game on the coaching staff either. If they are professionals, they have been taught what they need to do. Fielding errors, continued baselining mistakes combined with the lack of hitting is sickening. I say over rated!

 

I agree. Too many mental mistakes. Usually, the manager is blamed for this, but the players need to get their heads out of their asses.

[S5Dewey]

Well , Hardy did the same thing the previous night and the ball fell behind him. Watching this play unfold , I did not even think about the infield fly rule. I wonder how many really did ? I just thought Hardy screwed up again. I do think that if the infield fly rule was called , and Hardy failed to catch the ball, Sox fans would be complaining that it should not have been called. The umps make the split second decision. We can form our opinions after the results are known.

 

Well, I don't know what other Sox fans would say but I'd say if the umps had called the infield fly but I'd say it was the right call regardless of whether Hardy catches the ball.

You say that Hardy screwed up again, so how did he screw up? Was it by calling for a ball that he couldn't catch or by failing to catch an infield fly?. IMHO when a player calls for a ball - this time near the top of its flight - he's saying that he's going to catch it, and the umpires should take his word for it and call the IF fly.

 

The infield fly rule was instituted to prevent exactly what happened and the umpires dropped the ball on that play. Hardy's previous ineptitude doesn't justify not calling the infield fly on a ball that should have been caught "with ordinary effort" for a ML SS.

[Nick]

For Kimmi the stat geek...

 

Anything out there that measures Net Bases advanced (the batter and all base runners at time) divided by plate appearance?

 

thus hitting a single with no runners would be 1.000 (total base advanced of 1 divided by 1)

 

hitting into a double play with runner on first would be -1.000 (total base advanced of -1 divided by 1)

 

grand slam would by 10.000 (total bases advanced of 10 (the max) divided by 1).

 

I would love to see the rankings using this formula and compare it to others.

[Kimmi]

For Kimmi the stat geek...

 

Anything out there that measures Net Bases advanced (the batter and all base runners at time) divided by plate appearance?

 

thus hitting a single with no runners would be 1.000 (total base advanced of 1 divided by 1)

 

hitting into a double play with runner on first would be -1.000 (total base advanced of -1 divided by 1)

 

grand slam would by 10.000 (total bases advanced of 10 (the max) divided by 1).

 

I would love to see the rankings using this formula and compare it to others.

 

I am not aware of a stat that measure net bases advanced like you're describing. There is a stat called secondary average that measures what you're describing for the batter, but it does not include the other base runners.

 

There are a lot of very good offensive stats like wOBA or wRC that are along those lines, though they count a double with no one on base the same as a double with men on base.

[jad]

For Kimmi the stat geek...

 

Anything out there that measures Net Bases advanced (the batter and all base runners at time) divided by plate appearance?

 

thus hitting a single with no runners would be 1.000 (total base advanced of 1 divided by 1)

 

hitting into a double play with runner on first would be -1.000 (total base advanced of -1 divided by 1)

 

grand slam would by 10.000 (total bases advanced of 10 (the max) divided by 1).

 

I would love to see the rankings using this formula and compare it to others.

 

Ha! One of my memories as a kid in the late 50s was watching my brother studiously keeping exactly these stats on every game through the season: so every bat was: 0-4 (i.e., out with no one on); 3-7 (i.e., guy on first, single, runner goes to third). No differentiating walks/hits/errors/sacrifices, etc. Not sure if he ever made a grand end of year calculation, nor what he felt it proved.

[Northern Star]

[moonslav59]

Some notable farm numbers:

 

OPS (50+ PAs)

1.120 M Chavis

1.103 A Tavarez

1.045 Ockimey

.995 T-W Lin

.958 T Matheny

.956 R Devers

.922 J Witte

.887 A Rei

 

OPS against (23+ Innings)

.526 S Anderson

.543 L Boyd

.653 R Sexton

.583 B Johnson

.585 D Hernandez

.614 T Lakins

.620 H Owens

.690 Stankiewicz

 

[Emp9]

Can we talk about Devers here or do we have to go the the Minor league forum to talk about him?

[mvp 78]

Can we talk about Devers here or do we have to go the the Minor league forum to talk about him?

 

There's a very good chance he can be promoted this year, so it's ok to talk about him here.

[Nick]

There's a very good chance he can be promoted this year, so it's ok to talk about him here.

 

I'm hoping he can join the big league team after the All Star game. He needs to stick and that will be the end of Pablo at 3B. With buy option, what a waste of $100M. Hell they could have given me the money and I'd promise to pay another player $90M to replace Pablo. Everybody wins.

[cp176]

Pretty sure that Sandoval will get one more very good look. If he can't do it, and Devers is still playing well, there is nothing that could be hurt by bringing him up. if he comes up and can't get it done, back he goes. If his psyche is so fragile that a move like that might hurt him in terms of future development it would be good to find that out now as opposed to later as well.

[mvp 78]

Pretty sure that Sandoval will get one more very good look. If he can't do it, and Devers is still playing well, there is nothing that could be hurt by bringing him up. if he comes up and can't get it done, back he goes. If his psyche is so fragile that a move like that might hurt him in terms of future development it would be good to find that out now as opposed to later as well.

 

It always comes back to Cla Meredith... Always.

[S5Dewey]

It always comes back to Cla Meredith... Always.

 

That's exactly what I thought at the first mention of bringing Devers up early.