2016 Winter Meetings

[sk7326]

...but four years at about $17M total for one year of Davis at $10M?

 

That's way too steep.

 

Different time horizon, and young talent coming out the ears - they have to pay all these guys eventually ...

[moonslav59]

Different time horizon, and young talent coming out the ears - they have to pay all these guys eventually ...

 

Just because you have an abundance of youth, does not mean you have to make deals like this one. I'm probably over-valuing Soler or something, but this deal seams wacked out to me.

[sk7326]

Just because you have an abundance of youth, does not mean you have to make deals like this one. I'm probably over-valuing Soler or something, but this deal seams wacked out to me.

 

I think it is a deal that makes sense for the Cubs - and they had surplus. I would not love the move - but this is better than doing what the Giants did.

 

I agree with you in that I love the deal for the Royals.

[harmony]

Just because you have an abundance of youth, does not mean you have to make deals like this one. I'm probably over-valuing Soler or something, but this deal seams wacked out to me.

Think of what the Yankees got for two months of Aroldis Chapman and for two years and two months of Andrew Miller.

[jacksonianmarch]

We got a haul for sure. On par with what the sox gave up for Kimbrel and Sale

[moonslav59]

I think it is a deal that makes sense for the Cubs - and they had surplus. I would not love the move - but this is better than doing what the Giants did.

 

I agree with you in that I love the deal for the Royals.

 

I realize the had a surplus, and I know how GMs try to exploit that surplus out of a surety that they almost have to trade him, but I got to think they could have done better.

 

I realize I may be over-valuing Soler and/or under-valuing Davis, but I think the deal was a steal.

 

I get why the Cubs made the deal, just like I get why the Sox traded for Kimbrel.

[sk7326]

I realize the had a surplus, and I know how GMs try to exploit that surplus out of a surety that they almost have to trade him, but I got to think they could have done better.

 

I realize I may be over-valuing Soler and/or under-valuing Davis, but I think the deal was a steal.

 

I get why the Cubs made the deal, just like I get why the Sox traded for Kimbrel.

 

I agree that it was a terrific move for the Royals

[moonslav59]

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Nats are close to getting Adam Eaton from the White Sox. Top outfield prospect Victor Robles is not in the deal, he adds.

 

Best defensive RF'er in MLB and a .361-.362 OBP for 3 straight seasons!

Edited December 7, 2016 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Nats are close to getting Adam Eaton from the White Sox. Top outfield prospect Victor Robles is not in the deal, he adds.

 

Best defensive RF'er in MLB and a .361-.362 OBP for 3 straight seasons!

 

Washington gave up 3 pitching prospects: Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning.

[sk7326]

Washington gave up 3 pitching prospects: Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning.

 

Tremendous deal for the White Sox if that is the trade. Nats needed a CF, but the White Sox got a ton back. Their rebuild looks awfully promising.

[sk7326]

Worst move of the offseason so far - Ian Desmond to Colorado for 5/70. He's not that good, he can't play CF and the Rockies gave up a 1R.

 

That said - if the Red Sox REALLY wanted a DH plug in (not that they do with Moreland in the fold) - kicking the tires on one year of Carlos Gonzalez would not have been an awful idea.

[Kimmi]

The moves are helpful - and if you are going all in, do it for a stud on a great contract in his prime. His delivery screams TJS, but his results don't - and so you have to give Sale the benefit here.

 

Now the risk is obvious - you are prospect poorer and less equipped to handle some level of deus ex machina. Fortunately the core of the team is young and athletic - and so there should not be the same risks of growing old overnight that there have been in Detroit. It is also interesting that the Red Sox may have moved to a post-development machine era the same season where that approach saved the Cubs. Homegrown, cost controlled stuff is still the right way to build a core - and normally the preference is to keep the guys you think will be stars. (and to be fair to Dombrowski, identifying Devers as a superior option to Moncada is a completely reasonable assessment) Moreover - this will also be a test of how bad the brain drain at Yawkey has been. Are enough of the guys who have built this roster of young talent still around to Dombrowski still has currency to trade, and still has stars to promote.

 

Hard to dislike the Sale trade even with the significant price. Like the Thornburg trade quite a bit also. The Moreland signing probably won't do much one way or the other.

 

No doubt the moves that Dombrowski has made have made us a better team. We are most definitely all in and should be strong favorites in the AL.

 

My issue is not with the Sale trade, per se. Or with the Thornburg trade, which I actually like quite a bit. My issue is with the overall body of work that Dombrowski has done in 18 months, namely, gutting the farm. This was my concern with Dombrowski since day one.

 

I understand that part of the reason for building a strong farm is to be able to trade for players like Sale. The Sale trade in and of itself would be acceptable, even though we paid a steep price. Gutting a well stocked farm system to 'win now' is not acceptable.

 

Sure, this team is now in very good shape for about 3 years. But we were in very good shape for 7-8 years, or more, when we had a farm system.

[Kimmi]

DD is the guy you hand a team with a stocked farm system over to and watch him turn it into a contender. He is not a GM for a rebuild project. Detroit was turned into a winner under his watch by taking a really strong farm system (due to years of suck) and turning it into a juggernaut that just couldn't close the deal. The only downside of a guy like DD is a guarantee that your window is finite and a rebuild is closer to the horizon. He will turn your team into a juggernaut, but not a dynasty

 

Dombrowski is the antithesis of Theo and Ben. The thing is, he might have turned the team into a juggernaut, but we were already contenders. And we were long term contenders.

 

Now we are short term contenders. What concerns me is what is on the other side of the 3 year window.

[a700hitter]

Just remember, a lot of teams have "won" the winter meetings and then followed it up with mediocre seasons.

Yep, but we should be able to enjoy competitive baseball into September.

[a700hitter]

Dombrowski is the antithesis of Theo and Ben. The thing is, he might have turned the team into a juggernaut, but we were already contenders. And we were long term contenders.

 

Now we are short term contenders. What concerns me is what is on the other side of the 3 year window.

To be worse than Ben, there would have to be 4 straight last place finishes. Edited December 7, 2016 by a700hitter

[Nick]

We will compete for the World Championship next three years. We will then have to make some tough choices. Sale, Porcello and Xander will all be free agents and Betts and Bradley Jr the following year. Pablo will come off the books in 4 years Hanley after 3.

 

But it's a problem every team faces. I like our position today than say couple of days ago. You got to go for it.

[Hugh2]

I liked Ben, and I really like DD as a G.M. too. I thought they were the right GM's for the right time. I get that we are in our window now, and worrying about the team in 3-4 years when the championship window looks different is a great problem to have. I'm curious as to what people think this team would look like if DD came in 2-3 years earlier and gutted the team then? Personally I think he would have taken a different approach.

[Kimmi]

To be worse than Ben, there would have to be 4 straight last place finishes.

 

To be better than Ben, there would have to be a World Series Championship.

[a700hitter]

To be better than Ben, there would have to be a World Series Championship.

He needs one World Series and something better than a last place finish in one of the other 4 years. He won the division last year, so a WS victory this year would clinch it for DD.

[Wade Boggs]

C: Somebody

1B: Ramirez

2B: Pedroia

SS: Bogaerts

3B: Sandoval

LF: Benintendi

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

DH: Moreland

Reserve C: Somebody

Reserve IF: Holt

Reserve OF: Young

 

I'm not going to begin to guess on the catcher - Leon deserves the benefit of incumbency, but there is no real reason to have a ton of faith that he is "the starter"

 

Pedroia 2B

Benintendi LF

Betts RF

Ramirez DH

Bogaerts SS

Sandoval 3B

Moreland 1B

Leon C

Bradley CF

 

Vaz, Holt, Young, Hernandez , if you carry 3 catchers unlikely Swihart

[mvp 78]

Yep, but we should be able to enjoy competitive baseball into September.

 

"Should."

[a700hitter]

"Should."

Yes which is a higher standard than 'More Likely than Not"

[iortiz]

Welcome back big guy. How is Fatherhood?

 

Thanks Spud, how are u doing my man? excited about the sox net year?; I am! finally we have a good rotation.

 

Regarding my baby, we hardly have slept a complete night since he birthed, but things are stabilizing I guess, we sleep 5 hours these days LOL!

[bosoxmal]

Pedroia 2B

Benintendi LF

Betts RF

Ramirez DH

Bogaerts SS

Sandoval 3B

Moreland 1B

Leon C

Bradley CF

 

Vaz, Holt, Young, Hernandez , if you carry 3 catchers unlikely Swihart

 

Plug Benintendi into CF and Swihart into LF, and the rest is just fine. The brass will look at Swihart's numbers in LF last year, and get tired of watching JBJ's pathetic swings, and this will be the result. I hope I'm wrong! JBJ seems like a helluva nice guy.

[iortiz]

Dombrowski is the antithesis of Theo and Ben. The thing is, he might have turned the team into a juggernaut, but we were already contenders. And we were long term contenders.

 

Now we are short term contenders. What concerns me is what is on the other side of the 3 year window.

 

Not sure what long term contenders means to you, but IMO We don't have to worry for the next five years which is a lot of time in terms of baseball and is all I ask by now. This team still have a good core of young players and still can make great moves going forward. DD is a great and proven GM.

[Wade Boggs]

Plug Benintendi into CF and Swihart into LF, and the rest is just fine. The brass will look at Swihart's numbers in LF last year, and get tired of watching JBJ's pathetic swings, and this will be the result. I hope I'm wrong! JBJ seems like a helluva nice guy.

 

Doubt it. The last time Swihart's played LF he never played again. Swihart's role is catcher. Just incase Sandy Leon becomes himself again. Bradley is playing CF most of the time. He will hit 250/260 that's ok for a 8/9 hitter. Plus a GG type CF. But when JBJ slumps he slumps.

[Bellhorn04]

Plug Benintendi into CF and Swihart into LF, and the rest is just fine. The brass will look at Swihart's numbers in LF last year, and get tired of watching JBJ's pathetic swings, and this will be the result. I hope I'm wrong! JBJ seems like a helluva nice guy.

 

Cripes, mal. JBJ plays a beautiful centerfield and he had 26 homers and 87 ribbies in his first full season. You're a hard man to please.

[Spudboy]

Thanks Spud, how are u doing my man? excited about the sox net year?; I am! finally we have a good rotation.

 

Regarding my baby, we hardly have slept a complete night since he birthed, but things are stabilizing I guess, we sleep 5 hours these days LOL!

 

I am excited and can't wait for baseball to resume. This winter sucks.

 

Having a baby is a big change in lifestyle. You will adjust! It's pretty cool overall. Hang in there and best of luck to you and your young family.

[cp176]

To be better than Ben, there would have to be a World Series Championship.

 

Oh Kimmi - I would take Dan Marino over my boy Eli Manning (non hall of famer regardless of the Super Bowl wins ) any day.

[SoxnCycles]

No doubt the moves that Dombrowski has made have made us a better team. We are most definitely all in and should be strong favorites in the AL.

 

My issue is not with the Sale trade, per se. Or with the Thornburg trade, which I actually like quite a bit. My issue is with the overall body of work that Dombrowski has done in 18 months, namely, gutting the farm. This was my concern with Dombrowski since day one.

 

I understand that part of the reason for building a strong farm is to be able to trade for players like Sale. The Sale trade in and of itself would be acceptable, even though we paid a steep price. Gutting a well stocked farm system to 'win now' is not acceptable.

 

Sure, this team is now in very good shape for about 3 years. But we were in very good shape for 7-8 years, or more, when we had a farm system.

 

Agreed.

But, what's done is done. We may as well sit back and watch the Sox be competitive, while it lasts.

The real test for DD will be seeing which of the core of young Sox players he can hang on to, in the next 3 to 4 years.

 

Can't wait for the "Why don't we have any major league ready players" whine to kick in.

 

DD has built a great team, on paper.

But he hasn't won s*** yet.

I'm hoping Sale takes less time to "settle in" than Price and Porcello have.