2016-2017 Offseason Trade Speculation Thread

[mvp 78]

He said stupid.

 

Break out the ban hammer!!!!!!1!

 

That was a PERSONAL ATTACK!

[Nick]

That was a PERSONAL ATTACK!

 

For sure, that attack was greatly....very greatly.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the reason people want to trade Bradley is a gut check about just how streaky he is and a concern that pitchers might have caught up to him and he won't do it again. "Sell high" and all that.

 

There's a lot of truth there. However I don't think anyone outside the lunatic fringe actually wants to trade Bradley. He just seems like the one who would make the most sense to trade out of our young stars.

[Spudboy]

For sure, that attack was greatly....very greatly.

 

Or bigly, bigly.

[mvp 78]

Or bigly, bigly.

 

Is it "bigly" or "big league?"

[User Name]

Anyone whose last name starts with a B, but is not immediately followed by "Uchholz" should not be traded. They are the core of this team, and trading any of them plugs a hole by creating another.

[mvp 78]

Anyone whose last name starts with a B, but is not immediately followed by "Uchholz" should not be traded. They are the core of this team, and trading any of them plugs a hole by creating another.

 

Brock Holt

Matt Barnes

Bryan Holaday

Bryce Brentz

[moonslav59]

OK. How about this? He just hit 26 HR with an .835 OPS and he's one of the best CF'ers in the game at age 26. He's just coming into his prime. And people want to trade him. Hell, he's not a guy you trade. He's a guy you trade FOR - or keep if you've got him - if you're smart.

 

I'm not for trading JBJ, but I'll listen to any offers.

 

For all the reasons you mentioned, other GMs would give up a lot to get him.

 

Trading JBJ for a better return is not a bad idea. Not many teams have 2 guys on the 25 man roster than can play CF very well and a guy like Young (Moncada/Swihart?) to move into LF.

[southpaw777]

Warning! Blasphemy ahead!!

 

I don't see all the love for Xander Bogaerts. He's beginning to look to me like one of those players who had a tremendous upside - that he'll never reach. As much criticism as JBJ has gotten here and as much as some people 'want' for JBJ to be used as trade bait, JBJ is better at his position than Xbo is at his position, and JBJ's OPS is higher. For you fans of WAR, JBJ's WAR for 2016 was 5.3 while Bogaerts WAR was 3.7.

 

The ONLY thing Bogaerts has going for him is that we don't have another player whom we think can take XBo's place.

 

Wow, seriously?

Bogey has been a steady 4+.WAR for two years. He had a extened slump at the end of the year and was still on of the top SS in the league. To use him to make your point for JBJ, IMHO, is a bit much man. Plus your right, theres is nobody ready to just jump into the SS position like there is in CF.

Bogey is a perenial 300 hitter and all star. Had over 20+HR which is one of the best for a MLB SS.

Everyone knows your love for JBJ, but when you have two more than capable CFers on either side of him that makes him more available than some guys. Same with Swihart. Swi may have the bat, but his D behind the plate sucks right now, as well as all the other intangibles that Leon and Vaz have. He could possibly be a Lfer if JBJ was traded.

Obviously it depends on how other GMs value our players based on their needs. Teams may just want Beni or Someone else.

I love JBJ, but I like Betts and Beni more. If a GM wanted JBJ as a centerpiece along with Swihart+ for a top starter, Id do it depending on the pitcher and other players involved. I for no reason move Benintendi, Betts, Xander or Moncada. Make me offers on anyone else.

[moonslav59]

Would you trade JBJ, Moncada, Swihart, Shaw, Owens and Johnson for

Quintana, Robertson & Frazier?

 

We could then sign Beltran (1-2 years) to help out in LF and DH. Move Beni to CF. Maybe Devers will be ready after Frazier moves on after 2017.

We'd also have 2 extra SP'ers to trade if needed:

1) Quintana

2) Porcello

3) Price

4) ERod

5) Wright

6) Buchholz

7) Pomeranz

[cp176]

Wow, seriously?

Bogey has been a steady 4+.WAR for two years. He had a extened slump at the end of the year and was still on of the top SS in the league. To use him to make your point for JBJ, IMHO, is a bit much man. Plus your right, theres is nobody ready to just jump into the SS position like there is in CF.

Bogey is a perenial 300 hitter and all star. Had over 20+HR which is one of the best for a MLB SS.

Everyone knows your love for JBJ, but when you have two more than capable CFers on either side of him that makes him more available than some guys. Same with Swihart. Swi may have the bat, but his D behind the plate sucks right now, as well as all the other intangibles that Leon and Vaz have. He could possibly be a Lfer if JBJ was traded.

Obviously it depends on how other GMs value our players based on their needs. Teams may just want Beni or Someone else.

I love JBJ, but I like Betts and Beni more. If a GM wanted JBJ as a centerpiece along with Swihart+ for a top starter, Id do it depending on the pitcher and other players involved. I for no reason move Benintendi, Betts, Xander or Moncada. Make me offers on anyone else.

 

I like what you have posted and agree with most of it. Out of curiosity though what is there in Benintendi's game to date that you think makes him more valuable to our team than Bradley? I'm not saying that he won't be and I am not saying that I definitely would not trade Bradley for a TOTR young guy either. i am genuinely curious and I am not being my usual wise-assed self. I don't think that you are alone in feeling this way either. I also hope that he becomes the player that he looks like he might become but for me I don't see it as an absolute lock just yet. He is very valuable and I would have a hard time dealing him but for the right pitcher he would not be on my no trade list. Betts would be and that is probably about it for me right now.

[Jack Flap]

The way I see it, the Pomeranz trade was made to essentially set the starting five for the next two years without giving up Moncada or any of the B's. Unless the Pomeranz health news is worse than we know (and I see no reason to believe that right now), I doubt we see any sort of major trade for a starting pitcher.

 

As for Bradley, I think his "streakiness" is being a bit overstated here...he had an OPS of .731 or better every month but August, and I'd even take his second-half slash line of .233/.315/.412 any day of the week. Sure, if someone makes an offer you listen, but it's tough to move a player like that without simply opening up another hole for yourself to fill. (I'm still not sold that moving Swihart to left is a solution, but that's another argument.)

Edited October 14, 2016 by Jack Flap

[moonslav59]

I'm still not sold that moving Swihart to left is a solution, but that's another argument.

 

I'm not either. I feel his trade value as a catcher would be worth more than his value to us as a LF'er, 1Bman or DH.

 

I think we may see Moncada in LF before all is said and done.

[S5Dewey]

The way I see it, the Pomeranz trade was made to essentially set the starting five for the next two years without giving up Moncada or any of the B's. Unless the Pomeranz health news is worse than we know (and I see no reason to believe that right now), I doubt we see any sort of major trade for a starting pitcher.

 

As for Bradley, I think his "streakiness" is being a bit overstated here...he had an OPS of .731 or better every month but August, and I'd even take his second-half slash line of .233/.315/.412 any day of the week. Sure, if someone makes and offer you listen, but it's tough to move a player like that without simply opening up another hole for yourself to fill. (I'm still not sold that moving Swihart to left is a solution, but that's another argument.)

 

...and you make no mention of his GG-like defense, which only adds to his value.

[cp176]

I'm still not sold that moving Swihart to left is a solution, but that's another argument.

 

I'm not either. I feel his trade value as a catcher would be worth more than his value to us as a LF'er, 1Bman or DH.

 

I think we may see Moncada in LF before all is said and done.

 

There are so many possibilities aren't there -

Dubon to short (someday)

Bogaerts to third (maybe - with just a little more power which I think will come)

 

I think that it is players like Moncada, Benintendi, Dubon, Swihart, Devers, Travis, Shaw, Hernandez, etc. who actually make it tough to trade in some ways. The are all good! How good remains to be seen.

[Jack Flap]

I'm still not sold that moving Swihart to left is a solution, but that's another argument.

 

I'm not either. I feel his trade value as a catcher would be worth more than his value to us as a LF'er, 1Bman or DH.

 

I think we may see Moncada in LF before all is said and done.

I agree on both counts.

 

...and you make no mention of his GG-like defense, which only adds to his value.

I think that kind of goes without saying at this point, doesn't it?

[moonslav59]

There are so many possibilities aren't there -

Dubon to short (someday)

Bogaerts to third (maybe - with just a little more power which I think will come)

 

I think that it is players like Moncada, Benintendi, Dubon, Swihart, Devers, Travis, Shaw, Hernandez, etc. who actually make it tough to trade in some ways. The are all good! How good remains to be seen.

 

I could see this in the not too distant future:

 

C: Vazquez-Swihart

1B: Devers/Tavis

2B: Pedey (Moncada)

SS: Dubon

3B: Bogey (Moncada)

LF: Benintendi (Moncada)

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

DH: Moncada/Devers

[S5Dewey]

I could see this in the not too distant future:

 

C: Vazquez-Swihart

1B: Devers/Tavis

2B: Pedey (Moncada)

SS: Dubon

3B: Bogey (Moncada)

LF: Benintendi (Moncada)

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

DH: Moncada/Devers

 

WHAT??? You simply cannot move Bogaerts from the SS position. His psyche is so fragile that he won't be able to hit if he has to play 3B.

 

[sorry.. couldn't resist ]

[Jack Flap]

One does not simply move Bogaerts to third base.

 

 

 

[also couldn't resist]

[sk7326]

WHAT??? You simply cannot move Bogaerts from the SS position. His psyche is so fragile that he won't be able to hit if he has to play 3B.

 

[sorry.. couldn't resist ]

 

Well in 2014 it was a vote of no confidence and jerking him around ... the reason was understandable but so was the reaction ...

[Nick]

I just don't see Moncada in a trade for the simple reason. $60M.

 

What are you going to say to Henry? Have you really thought this out? And it's only been over a year.....I just don't see it.

[Kimmi]

I just don't see Moncada in a trade for the simple reason. $60M.

 

What are you going to say to Henry? Have you really thought this out? And it's only been over a year.....I just don't see it.

 

I can't see Moncada being traded either. I think it would be unwise for anyone to give up on him at such a young age, especially based off of his very limited number of at bats at the big league level.

[moonslav59]

I can't see Moncada being traded either. I think it would be unwise for anyone to give up on him at such a young age, especially based off of his very limited number of at bats at the big league level.

 

I really have trouble with how people take the idea of suggesting a trade of one of our players as "giving up on him". I never see it that way, unless you're dumping a salary. I would say that if a person was to suggest a trade of Moncada for Quintana, then that person is far from "giving up" but instead is showing how much he really values Moncada.

 

I think the fact that $60M was spent could actually be a selling point to the team about to get him. That money spent does not count against the luxury, so I think in some ways, Henry is not as worried about the "sunken cost" as he would be, if he had to pay a team $60M to take a player off our hands. The fact that Moncada is much closer to ML ready than when we spent the $60M, and that Moncada has done nothing more than impress people and move up on rankings charts makes him worth more than the $60M we already spent on him. Don't be fooled by the disappointing teeny tiny sample size Moncada had in the bigs this year. His trade value is off the charts- as it should be.

 

I'm not for trading Moncada, or for trading Swihart, but sometimes, we have to look at what the return is and if we judge it to be better, we probably should put our regrets aside and do what's best for this team's future. We have to look at who we have instead of Moncada and how much of a drop off it might be vs how much of a gain we get at the position we trade for, and also what other positions might be affected by the trade.

 

For example, let's say it's a Moncada and Swihart for Quintana trade. We have to ask ourselves how much these two guys were going to mean to us over the length of their team control vs. who else we have instead. What's the drop off between Swihart and Vazquez or Leon? Same with Moncada vs our 3B crew now and Devers going forward. Now, compare that differential to what Quinatna would bring us for 4 more years at a $4.2M against the luxury limit. The money "saved" by having an ace at that cost may allow us to extend Betts or acquire a big FA at some point. The addition of Quintana to the rotation now makes Porcello our #2 and Price our #3 and so on. It adds a solid pitcher (Wright, Buch or Pom) to our depleted pen. It has a snowball affect on several areas of the team.

 

I realizw giving up 4-5 years of Moncada and 4-5 years of Swihart for just 4 years of Quintana could backfire, if Quintana declines or one or both of our kids go on to HOF careers, but I'm willing to take risks like this for real talent like Quintana, instead of for RP'ers (like Kimbrel) and mid-rotation SP'ers (like Pom).

 

We may need to go bold to get to the next level.

 

Maybe keeping all the top prospects is the bold thing to do, and I am not necessarily against looking long myself.

 

 

[Nick]

I really have trouble with how people take the idea of suggesting a trade of one of our players as "giving up on him". I never see it that way, unless you're dumping a salary. I would say that if a person was to suggest a trade of Moncada for Quintana, then that person is far from "giving up" but instead is showing how much he really values Moncada.

 

I think the fact that $60M was spent could actually be a selling point to the team about to get him. That money spent does not count against the luxury, so I think in some ways, Henry is not as worried about the "sunken cost" as he would be, if he had to pay a team $60M to take a player off our hands. The fact that Moncada is much closer to ML ready than when we spent the $60M, and that Moncada has done nothing more than impress people and move up on rankings charts makes him worth more than the $60M we already spent on him. Don't be fooled by the disappointing teeny tiny sample size Moncada had in the bigs this year. His trade value is off the charts- as it should be.

 

I'm not for trading Moncada, or for trading Swihart, but sometimes, we have to look at what the return is and if we judge it to be better, we probably should put our regrets aside and do what's best for this team's future. We have to look at who we have instead of Moncada and how much of a drop off it might be vs how much of a gain we get at the position we trade for, and also what other positions might be affected by the trade.

 

For example, let's say it's a Moncada and Swihart for Quintana trade. We have to ask ourselves how much these two guys were going to mean to us over the length of their team control vs. who else we have instead. What's the drop off between Swihart and Vazquez or Leon? Same with Moncada vs our 3B crew now and Devers going forward. Now, compare that differential to what Quinatna would bring us for 4 more years at a $4.2M against the luxury limit. The money "saved" by having an ace at that cost may allow us to extend Betts or acquire a big FA at some point. The addition of Quintana to the rotation now makes Porcello our #2 and Price our #3 and so on. It adds a solid pitcher (Wright, Buch or Pom) to our depleted pen. It has a snowball affect on several areas of the team.

 

I realizw giving up 4-5 years of Moncada and 4-5 years of Swihart for just 4 years of Quintana could backfire, if Quintana declines or one or both of our kids go on to HOF careers, but I'm willing to take risks like this for real talent like Quintana, instead of for RP'ers (like Kimbrel) and mid-rotation SP'ers (like Pom).

 

We may need to go bold to get to the next level.

 

Maybe keeping all the top prospects is the bold thing to do, and I am not necessarily against looking long myself.

 

 

 

Let me get this straight....you convinced me to spend $60M on a possible superstar just so we can trade him for Q? Oh by the way, WE'RE NOT THE ONES GETTING ADDITIONAL PLAYERS BUT WE HAVE TO GIVE UP ADDITIONAL FUTURE TALENT? Sure, where do I sign off on that trade? Really, this is how you are going to waste my money? Moncada's sunken cost is far different than others (Craig, Castille, Pablo) on the Sox roster. They have proven that YOU were wrong assessing their baseball skills........that's what I think Henry would say to Moon, the Sox GM.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Nick

[Nick]

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20161015/red-sox-roster-reset-after-years-of-tumult-outfield-looks-set-deep-into-future

 

Her's a good article on how the OF situation has improved for the Sox.

[Wade Boggs]

That's correct. But Nick, let's also add that Panda is still on this roster. If you are looking for a young controllable ace that pitches good in the postseason , how do you get it without giving up good prospects. DD is responsible for Price and trading for Pomaranz . David Price pitched good not great. The jury is still out on Pomaranz. Kimbrel has been good. He will continue to close games at a good clip. Be it control problems at times. DD did not tell Henry to spend 60 M on Moncada. He did not tell him to spend 95M on Panda or trade Lackey for Craig and Kelly. Rusney Is a bust. If they sign EE, they could part with Moncada for the right type of ACE. I know none of them are out there.. I'm not crying about it. I am not trying to bring up old stories. I am not going into the time machine. The BIG mistake this ownership and GM made....... Lester to sign elsewhere. They could have had him signed by spring training. 5/110 would have did it. They came in at 5/80. It was all over after that.

 

Please ignore my English and correct punctuation, other stuff as well. I really know 50% of time what I am talking about.

Lol

[southpaw777]

I like what you have posted and agree with most of it. Out of curiosity though what is there in Benintendi's game to date that you think makes him more valuable to our team than Bradley? I'm not saying that he won't be and I am not saying that I definitely would not trade Bradley for a TOTR young guy either. i am genuinely curious and I am not being my usual wise-assed self. I don't think that you are alone in feeling this way either. I also hope that he becomes the player that he looks like he might become but for me I don't see it as an absolute lock just yet. He is very valuable and I would have a hard time dealing him but for the right pitcher he would not be on my no trade list. Betts would be and that is probably about it for me right now.

 

I just think his all around game will be better. His hit tool is outstanding vs LH and RHP. His defense is GG calibur. Does not have the same arm, but Im not as high on JBjs arm as a lot of people. I value Beni's all around game and approach more than JBJ. I think JBJ can get in his own head and overthink things, Especially with the bat. Jbj starts arb and Benintendi has 6 years, which is not really a big deal to me because we got the $$. Its still part of my thought process though.

Now, thats not to say I dont value JBJ. Of course I do or I wouldnt be listing him as a headliner to a deal. JBJ is a GG Allstar CFer which will bring back something we need. We have another Allstar, possible league MVP, who can play CF and has GG defense already in RF. I can also easily see Beni as an AS GG OFer in the future. so my thought is we can afford to trade JBJ and still have two studs still out there with Moncada being groomed in the OF this winer and into 2017. Young and Holt could platoon out there, which is fine until Moncada is ready.

So, with Moncada now being worked out in the OF, I can once again see three young AS

OFers by 2018. Moncada making his OF debut sometime in 2017.

[southpaw777]

Would you trade JBJ, Moncada, Swihart, Shaw, Owens and Johnson for

Quintana, Robertson & Frazier?

 

We could then sign Beltran (1-2 years) to help out in LF and DH. Move Beni to CF. Maybe Devers will be ready after Frazier moves on after 2017.

We'd also have 2 extra SP'ers to trade if needed:

1) Quintana

2) Porcello

3) Price

4) ERod

5) Wright

6) Buchholz

7) Pomeranz

 

Just said I wouldnt trade Moncada, so No. I think thats way too much for those guys. Quintana is the only real value to me. Too much talent given up for frazier and Robertson. We dont need another LHP andway...at least not without trading one. That would make 4 LHP, a flutter baller with a bad wing, and an inconsistent head case.

Id like a nice Power RHP in there somewhere. Hopefully Kopech (AA) can find some consistency and really breakout this year against advanced hitters. I think DD will make a move for Sale and it will probably include Erod somewhere.

[southpaw777]

WHAT??? You simply cannot move Bogaerts from the SS position. His psyche is so fragile that he won't be able to hit if he has to play 3B.

 

[sorry.. couldn't resist ]

 

Still better than the oft injured bad attitude SS in Detroit by a country mile...

 

Sorry, coulnt resist

[Dojji]

WHAT??? You simply cannot move Bogaerts from the SS position. His psyche is so fragile that he won't be able to hit if he has to play 3B.

 

[sorry.. couldn't resist ]

 

You know that's not the reason we don't move a nearly 5 WAR shortstop talent off shortstop. As a third baseman Bogaerts' bat is a lot less special, and that's just the truth. We get more raw wins out of having Bogaerts at SS and a replacement 3B than we do by having Bogaerts at 3B and a replacement at SS. If we can solve the 3B problem without screwing with something special at another position, we need to do it.

 

I'd be interested in seeing if the Red Sox experiment with Dubon at third base at all. It would show what they're thinking.