A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[Fisk]

So, it is doubtful we trade either of these guys, if the portion we have to pay endangers us going over the tax limit.

 

These two are in purgatory until their contracts run out.

 

Yes they are in purgatory.

[notin]

If Craig shows some signs of rebounding we might be able to trade him, as you say we'd have to eat some of it.

 

Which would put the Sox in a worse position than they are by not dealing Craig. In order to trade Craig and pay some of his deal, he first has to be added to the 40 man roster, and whatever they pay then counts towards the Luxury Tax.

 

If the Sox don't deal him and keep him off the 40 man roster, nothing counts towards the Luxury Tax...

[a700hitter]

Which would put the Sox in a worse position than they are by not dealing Craig. In order to trade Craig and pay some of his deal, he first has to be added to the 40 man roster, and whatever they pay then counts towards the Luxury Tax.

 

If the Sox don't deal him and keep him off the 40 man roster, nothing counts towards the Luxury Tax...

I am not saying that you are wrong about this, but I can't understand why they would have to add him to the 40 man roster in order to trade him. If that is the case, they should just release him, unless he has to be added to the 40 man roster before he can be released.

[moonslav59]

Which would put the Sox in a worse position than they are by not dealing Craig. In order to trade Craig and pay some of his deal, he first has to be added to the 40 man roster, and whatever they pay then counts towards the Luxury Tax.

 

If the Sox don't deal him and keep him off the 40 man roster, nothing counts towards the Luxury Tax...

 

I suppose if adding Craig or Castillo in order to trade them mid season still keeps us under the luxury limit, and savings Henry realizes may be worth it.

 

An interesting scenario could arise where, if Henry trades Craig or Castillo and pays part of one's contract, he might save more than what the tax might be, assuming he goes over by a little. However, not resetting the tax may result in future taxes (and even stiffer penalties in some cases) that tip the balance the other way.

 

I seriously doubt either one gets traded or called up, unless it's an emergency, and it's just for a few days or weeks. Even then, we should have better options, unless one of these guys is killing it in AAA.

[moonslav59]

I am not saying that you are wrong about this, but I can't understand why they would have to add him to the 40 man roster in order to trade him. If that is the case, they should just release him, unless he has to be added to the 40 man roster before he can be released.

 

We did release these guys (DFA), but nobody claimed them, since they did not want to pay. So, we decided to keep them in our system, since we were paying them anyway.

 

I still think there's some gray area on trading these guys. If we trade them while they are not on our 40 man roster, and later on someone adds them to their 40 man roster, I don't see why that should affect us. However, if we pay a portion of their contract, then it gets sketchy, if the player is not on the 40 man roster of the new team but then is added later.

[mvp 78]

RE: Sounds like porn.

 

It's owned by Twitter, so that is quite possible.

 

I don't understand this comment.

[Hugh2]

Which would put the Sox in a worse position than they are by not dealing Craig. In order to trade Craig and pay some of his deal, he first has to be added to the 40 man roster, and whatever they pay then counts towards the Luxury Tax.

 

If the Sox don't deal him and keep him off the 40 man roster, nothing counts towards the Luxury Tax...

 

At this point Craigh or Castillo would have to absolutely demolish eastern league pitching to get called up or trading for. Pergaturoy indeed.

[Bellhorn04]

Which would put the Sox in a worse position than they are by not dealing Craig. In order to trade Craig and pay some of his deal, he first has to be added to the 40 man roster, and whatever they pay then counts towards the Luxury Tax.

 

If the Sox don't deal him and keep him off the 40 man roster, nothing counts towards the Luxury Tax...

 

They are paying him 11 million this year, correct?

 

Let's say they trade him and have to eat 5 million of the 11 million, just for example.

 

They have saved 6 million.

 

So then the question is, how much will be the tax cost of paying the 5 million of his salary?

 

I can't see it being 6 million or more. But there are non-monetary considerations of going over the tax threshold as well...

 

Now you've got me doing this...

[Bellhorn04]

I don't understand this comment.

 

That was my comment. Just a dumb joke about Periscope sounding like porn...

[jad]

We did release these guys (DFA), but nobody claimed them, since they did not want to pay. So, we decided to keep them in our system, since we were paying them anyway.

 

I still think there's some gray area on trading these guys. If we trade them while they are not on our 40 man roster, and later on someone adds them to their 40 man roster, I don't see why that should affect us. However, if we pay a portion of their contract, then it gets sketchy, if the player is not on the 40 man roster of the new team but then is added later.

 

Hmm. Probably not 'grey' but 'so obscure it might as well be'. Maybe something that should be addressed in the new CBA? A number of provisions seem designed to prevent situations like this: e.g., a rich team should not be able to sign prospects (or veterans for that matter) just to keep another team from getting them, then 'parking' them in the minors. If Castillo has become a legitimate .300 hitter, I want to see him play (either for the RS or for someone else).

[Nick]

Hmm. Probably not 'grey' but 'so obscure it might as well be'. Maybe something that should be addressed in the new CBA? A number of provisions seem designed to prevent situations like this: e.g., a rich team should not be able to sign prospects (or veterans for that matter) just to keep another team from getting them, then 'parking' them in the minors. If Castillo has become a legitimate .300 hitter, I want to see him play (either for the RS or for someone else).

 

They are well paid or being "parked".

 

Castillo can void the contract with no compensation. He would do it thinking he's worth $20M per year only if give a chance to play. He can actually do this. Will he? No freaking way.

[Bellhorn04]

They are well paid or being "parked".

 

Castillo can void the contract with no compensation. He would do it thinking he's worth $20M per year only if give a chance to play. He can actually do this. Will he? No freaking way.

 

Would the Players Union let him do this?

[Thunder]

That was my comment. Just a dumb joke about Periscope sounding like porn...

 

And I was remarking about Twitter's tendency to let users post just about anything, including porn itself.

[mvp 78]

And I was remarking about Twitter's tendency to let users post just about anything, including porn itself.

 

I must be on a different twitter, twitter for old farts.

[Thunder]

I must be on a different twitter, twitter for old farts.

 

Well, you'll only exposed to it if you follow the right/wrong people, like most people my age that like retweeting some pretty nasty stuff.

[moonslav59]

They are paying him 11 million this year, correct?

 

Let's say they trade him and have to eat 5 million of the 11 million, just for example.

 

They have saved 6 million.

 

So then the question is, how much will be the tax cost of paying the 5 million of his salary?

 

I can't see it being 6 million or more. But there are non-monetary considerations of going over the tax threshold as well...

 

Now you've got me doing this...

 

But an added issue is that, if paying part of Castillo's salary prevents us from resetting the luxury tax, then future taxes would offset any gains Henry made from his own wallet this year. There could also be other future non-monetary penalties depending on how much we go over.

 

I don't think this scenario could ever happen, unless we still remain under the limit after the trade.

[moonslav59]

Hmm. Probably not 'grey' but 'so obscure it might as well be'. Maybe something that should be addressed in the new CBA? A number of provisions seem designed to prevent situations like this: e.g., a rich team should not be able to sign prospects (or veterans for that matter) just to keep another team from getting them, then 'parking' them in the minors. If Castillo has become a legitimate .300 hitter, I want to see him play (either for the RS or for someone else).

 

I doubt the player's union minds that Castillo is making $70M+ to play in AAA for 6+ years.

[Nick]

But an added issue is that, if paying part of Castillo's salary prevents us from resetting the luxury tax, then future taxes would offset any gains Henry made from his own wallet this year. There could also be other future non-monetary penalties depending on how much we go over.

 

I don't think this scenario could ever happen, unless we still remain under the limit after the trade.

 

And to Bellhorn04, Sox will have to 'eat' $5M in future years. (I doubt there's a team that will only have the Sox eat $5 TOTAL, all in 2017)

[Nick]

I doubt the player's union minds that Castillo is making $70M+ to play in AAA for 6+ years.

 

this

[moonslav59]

MLBTR...

 

The Red Sox announced a number of roster moves this morning, including their decision to option Blake Swihart to Triple-A Pawtucket. The team also optioned infielder Deven Marrero to Pawtucket and reassigned catcher Dan Butler and first baseman Sam Travis to minor-league camp. Swihart had a strong spring, batting .325/.386/.400, but both Sandy Leon and Christian Vazquez were out of options, and it’s not likely the Red Sox would want to lose either one.

[jad]

this

 

Right. But you made another good point earlier. The players' union will not let him leave that money on the table for a chance to play in the bigs. Isn't that how the RS ended up with Manny rather than Arod?-- CBA will not allow players to 'restructure' [nice euphemism!] contracts, i.e., to take less money to improve (in their minds) their situation.

[moonslav59]

Right. But you made another good point earlier. The players' union will not let him leave that money on the table for a chance to play in the bigs. Isn't that how the RS ended up with Manny rather than Arod?-- CBA will not allow players to 'restructure' [nice euphemism!] contracts, i.e., to take less money to improve (in their minds) their situation.

 

True, but I doubt Castillo would do it.

 

He could have refused his assignment and become a FA and lost the money. Nothing the union could do about that. Then, he could have sought out the best deal.

[notin]

Hmm. Probably not 'grey' but 'so obscure it might as well be'. Maybe something that should be addressed in the new CBA? A number of provisions seem designed to prevent situations like this: e.g., a rich team should not be able to sign prospects (or veterans for that matter) just to keep another team from getting them, then 'parking' them in the minors. If Castillo has become a legitimate .300 hitter, I want to see him play (either for the RS or for someone else).

 

 

Well, Castillo is being parked in the minors because his baseball abilities are such that no team wanted him when he was exposed to waivers. Right now, he is the world's highest paid AAAA player.

 

Sure he might not have cleared waivers is he signed a deal worth $1-2mill per year. But I don't hear him complaining about the money...

[jad]

Well, Castillo is being parked in the minors because his baseball abilities are such that no team wanted him when he was exposed to waivers. Right now, he is the world's highest paid AAAA player.

 

Sure he might not have cleared waivers is he signed a deal worth $1-2mill per year. But I don't hear him complaining about the money...

 

Interesting scenario though: since this (that is, my reading of articles XIX and XX until I got a head-ache) looks as if a team could pressure a player into the dreaded 'restructuring' of a contract. i.e., you're not worth 15mil/year to us, but maybe 5-10. How about we waive you, and if you become a FO, we re-sign you at 7, maybe for a few more years. ... Wouldn't other teams and the union object to such deals? And wouldn't the amount of money in the original deal count against the lux. cap?

[Bellhorn04]

Interesting scenario though: since this (that is, my reading of articles XIX and XX until I got a head-ache) looks as if a team could pressure a player into the dreaded 'restructuring' of a contract. i.e., you're not worth 15mil/year to us, but maybe 5-10. How about we waive you, and if you become a FO, we re-sign you at 7, maybe for a few more years. ... Wouldn't other teams and the union object to such deals? And wouldn't the amount of money in the original deal count against the lux. cap?

 

I don't think there any actual examples of this happening.

[notin]

I don't think there any actual examples of this happening.

 

 

I think those clauses were added for steroid users who fraudulently inflated their own values and then got caught. They might be known some day as the Ryan Braun Clauses....

[moonslav59]

mlbtr...

 

Tyler Thornburg Likely To Open Season On DL

By Jeff Todd | March 28, 2017 at 9:59am CDT

 

Red Sox righty Tyler Thornburg is likely to open the season on the disabled list after an “upper right trapezius spasm” prevented him from taking the mound yesterday, as Ian Browne of MLB.com was among those to report on Twitter.

 

It’s not clear that the trap issue is a significant one; far from it, in fact. But he will go for an MRI, per Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald (via Twitter). Even if it turns out to be a blip, though, a DL stint seems the likely result. Thornburg has been slowed throughout camp as his shoulder strength has failed to catch up to speed.

 

With the anticipated absence from Thornburg, and without a clear indication to when he might be able to return, the back of the Boston relief corps seems noticeably less potent than had been expected. Still, president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski says he believes there’s sufficient depth on hand, as Mastrodonato reports.

 

“Well, I think we’re fine,” Dombrowski said. “Some guys have to step up is what it comes down to. You go through these type of things in any particular year. I’ve done it every year in my career.”

 

With uncertainty also best describing the current status of key lefty David Price, though, Boston’s pitching depth chart will be tested early. The club did announce that it sent veteran righty Kyle Kendrick to minor-league camp this morning, which suggests Drew Pomeranz will be ready to join the rotation. But it still seems possible the organization will look to make a depth move of some kind with roster churn happening around the league.

[mvp 78]

Some guys have to step up is what it comes down to.

 

Some GM's just need to step up and make a good trade once in a while and not go for damaged goods is what it comes down to.

[moonslav59]

soxprospects.com on Chatham....

 

http://news.soxprospects.com/2017/03/chatham-using-size-to-his-advantage-at.html

[moonslav59]

Some guys have to step up is what it comes down to.

 

Some GM's just need to step up and make a good trade once in a while and not go for damaged goods is what it comes down to.

 

Apparently, Thornburg was not damaged goods when we got him. He messed up on our winter instructions and hurt himself.