Lineup Discussions

[bosoxmal]

We are at a point in this long season, where stats begin to mean something. For, that is, regulars. So,

 

Betts has an OBP of .342 and an SLG of .527

 

Pedroia has an OBP of .372 and an SLG of .449

 

Why isn't Pedroia leading off, with Betts second? Or don't past performances mean anything? Just habit?

[Eddy Ballgame]

We are at a point in this long season, where stats begin to mean something. For, that is, regulars. So,

 

Betts has an OBP of .342 and an SLG of .527

 

Pedroia has an OBP of .372 and an SLG of .449

 

Why isn't Pedroia leading off, with Betts second? Or don't past performances mean anything? Just habit?

 

Pedroia supposedly doesn't like leading off and the Sox are leading all of baseball in runs. Most ball players at that level don't like bouncing around the batting order, either. "Don't try to fix what ain't broken"

[Bellhorn04]

The ideal leadoff hitter is considered to have both power and speed. Mookie fits the bill.

[Kimmi]

Pedroia supposedly doesn't like leading off and the Sox are leading all of baseball in runs. Most ball players at that level don't like bouncing around the batting order, either. "Don't try to fix what ain't broken"

 

Besides this, the impact of switching the #1 and 2 hitters is so little that it would likely do more harm than good.

[mvp 78]

Pedroia supposedly doesn't like leading off and the Sox are leading all of baseball in runs. Most ball players at that level don't like bouncing around the batting order, either. "Don't try to fix what ain't broken"

 

I agree.

[cp176]

Pedroia supposedly doesn't like leading off and the Sox are leading all of baseball in runs. Most ball players at that level don't like bouncing around the batting order, either. "Don't try to fix what ain't broken"

 

Trying to make something out of nothing. Farrell sucks right.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Trying to make something out of nothing. Farrell sucks right.

 

I'm not much of a big "blame or credit the manager" guy. If he can somewhat control a bunch of 20 & 30 something year old millionaires with giant egos, then I'm okay with whoever it is. The days of Joe McCarthy and John McGraw are long gone.

 

There's usually a solid reason why they make the in game decisions that they do, and most rely on the coaches to help them. How many times has a manager called the bullpen to get a reliever up and the bullpen coach called back and said, "So and so's got nothing right now." Probably more often than any of us realize.

[bosoxmal]

The impact would be little? BRFORE tonight's game Betts was second in the AL in hitting with men on base. (over .400) The first time he comes to bat (20% of the time, at least) there is no one on base. AND, hittin in front of Papi, he would get even better pitches to hit! This BS of someting not broke, why fix it? is nonsense. Why is it not a good thing to get better?

[bosoxmal]

Pedroia doesn't like leading off? Tough. Most of the players would rather stand in the circle and watch 4 or 5 or more pitches. Who wouldn't? But, most would not bitch about it.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Pedroia doesn't like leading off? Tough. Most of the players would rather stand in the circle and watch 4 or 5 or more pitches. Who wouldn't? But, most would not bitch about it.

 

I'm just not sure why you'd ever want to switch the top 3 hitters around in the line-up when they are all having great seasons and they are leading the majors in runs scored, especially when at least one of those guys has made it clear that he's uncomfortable hitting in the spot that you want to put him in.

 

I love Mookie Betts, but he's a little streaky, like most players. If Farrell hits him 3rd and he goes 4 for 30, Sox fans will want to hang him, especially when the guy hitting 3rd right now is having an MVP caliber season.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm quite happy with Mookie being the guy who leads the team in plate appearances.

[Jasonbay44]

What is the obsession with not wanting Mookie to hit leadoff? This lineup is the best in baseball and there is no reason to change it.

[Spudboy]

Besides this, the impact of switching the #1 and 2 hitters is so little that it would likely do more harm than good.

 

Again, the new guys here missed your excellent explanation about batting order and it's affects of production.

 

It's too bad we don't have a pinned thread where conversations like that one could be posted for posterior.

 

That way we could always refer back to it to refute counter ideas.

[moonslav59]

Pedroia supposedly doesn't like leading off and the Sox are leading all of baseball in runs. Most ball players at that level don't like bouncing around the batting order, either. "Don't try to fix what ain't broken"

 

Agreed. Besides, last year Betts came on strong over the summer, and he has a .402 OBP over the last 28 days. Now is certainly not the time to move Mookie off the 1 slot.

 

Over Betts' career:

1st half: .334 OBP

2nd half: .366 OBP

 

FYI Pedey's career numbers by batting order slot:

1) .341/.412/.753

2) .367/.448/.815

3) .368/.435/.803

4) .430/.654/1.083

 

Betts is where he belongs.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Betts up first followed by Bogey 2nd and Papi 3rd, but I'm fine with the line-up as is.

[cp176]

I'm not much of a big "blame or credit the manager" guy. If he can somewhat control a bunch of 20 & 30 something year old millionaires with giant egos, then I'm okay with whoever it is. The days of Joe McCarthy and John McGraw are long gone.

 

There's usually a solid reason why they make the in game decisions that they do, and most rely on the coaches to help them. How many times has a manager called the bullpen to get a reliever up and the bullpen coach called back and said, "So and so's got nothing right now." Probably more often than any of us realize.

 

Agree!

[Nick]

Having Pedey bat second gives him one extra at bat to ground into double play.

[Bellhorn04]

Having Pedey bat second gives him one extra at bat to ground into double play.

 

Yeah, Ortiz has been grounding into too many DP's too. Let's move 'em both down to the bottom of the order.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, Ortiz has been grounding into too many DP's too. Let's move 'em both down to the bottom of the order.

 

No, hit Pedroia first and Ortiz second so that you get the DP out of the way.

[Kimmi]

I'm not much of a big "blame or credit the manager" guy. If he can somewhat control a bunch of 20 & 30 something year old millionaires with giant egos, then I'm okay with whoever it is. The days of Joe McCarthy and John McGraw are long gone.

 

There's usually a solid reason why they make the in game decisions that they do, and most rely on the coaches to help them. How many times has a manager called the bullpen to get a reliever up and the bullpen coach called back and said, "So and so's got nothing right now." Probably more often than any of us realize.

 

Solid post Eddy.

[Kimmi]

The impact would be little? BRFORE tonight's game Betts was second in the AL in hitting with men on base. (over .400) The first time he comes to bat (20% of the time, at least) there is no one on base. AND, hittin in front of Papi, he would get even better pitches to hit! This BS of someting not broke, why fix it? is nonsense. Why is it not a good thing to get better?

 

You may not believe it, but the fact of the matter is that line up changes are just not as significant as most people think they are. I am all for moving a struggling hitter down in the line up, but that is more for taking the pressure off of the hitter than anything else. The net effect of changing the batting order is likely to be a negative one if you are taking batters out of their comfort zones.

[Kimmi]

Again, the new guys here missed your excellent explanation about batting order and it's affects of production.

 

It's too bad we don't have a pinned thread where conversations like that one could be posted for posterior.

 

That way we could always refer back to it to refute counter ideas.

 

Thank you.

 

It's okay, I don't mind repeating myself, as you well know.

[bosoxmal]

None of your arguments are convincing (hitting lead off so as to get 40 or 50 more at bats during the year? Wow, what an idea! Too bad they didn't think of that in the old days, when they might have had Williams, or Musial or Mantle or the Babe leading off so they would get a few more at bats!)

 

And who said anything about changing Bogaerts or Ortiz. I specifically said switch Pedroia and Betts, and we'll have a stronger line-up. With this really bad pitching stafff, we need all the runs we can get---and more!

[Michfan]

The batting order is fine. Pitching seems to be the problem when scrub teams averaging 3-4 runs a game score 6-10 against us.

[greenwell]

Agreed. Besides, last year Betts came on strong over the summer, and he has a .402 OBP over the last 28 days. Now is certainly not the time to move Mookie off the 1 slot.

 

Over Betts' career:

1st half: .334 OBP

2nd half: .366 OBP

 

FYI Pedey's career numbers by batting order slot:

1) .341/.412/.753

2) .367/.448/.815

3) .368/.435/.803

4) .430/.654/1.083

 

Betts is where he belongs.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Betts up first followed by Bogey 2nd and Papi 3rd, but I'm fine with the line-up as is.

 

I like the idea of moving Pedroia down in the order. His numbers aren't all that good with runners in scoring position, 0.757 career ops, this is largely caused by a .649 ops with a runner on second only. The numbers are even worse this year.

[Bellhorn04]

I like the idea of moving Pedroia down in the order. His numbers aren't all that good with runners in scoring position, 0.757 career ops, this is largely caused by a .649 ops with a runner on second only. The numbers are even worse this year.

 

I respect the stat dig.

 

But if you look further, he has an .877 career OPS with a runner at first base only, so that would seem to make him a good candidate for batting second.

[greenwell]

I respect the stat dig.

 

But if you look further, he has an .877 career OPS with a runner at first base only, so that would seem to make him a good candidate for batting second.

 

Good point. It's also .865 with a runner on third only, so they should just tell Betts to stop at first unless he knows he can make it all the way to third.

[bosoxmal]

Betts is an emerging player. He is 34th, in the AL, in OBP!!!! And 11th in RBIs!!! And he's still leading off? He could be moved to the second spot, first, see if the trend continues, and look for him in the 3, 4 or 5 hole after Papi leaves.

[illinoisredsox]

The top 6 guys in the line-up are not the problem and the bottom 3 are also fine. They are, for the most part, scoring plenty of runs.

 

The issue is on the mound. Rearranging the furniture (line-up) isn't going to change that.

[S5Dewey]

The top 6 guys in the line-up are not the problem and the bottom 3 are also fine. They are, for the most part, scoring plenty of runs.

 

The issue is on the mound. Rearranging the furniture (line-up) isn't going to change that.

 

This post is dead-nuts on. When you have six guys in the lineup hitting over .300 and seven guys with an OPS >.800 the offense is not the problem. Leave it alone.

[Bellhorn04]

good point. It's also .865 with a runner on third only, so they should just tell betts to stop at first unless he knows he can make it all the way to third.

 

lol