Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[SoxnCycles]

Yup.

 

Then the Sox shouldn't pick up his option, should never play Hanley at 1b, should play Pablo no matter what, etc.

 

And boy, doesn't that Price suck! I mean innings pitched is stupid. Quality Starts is a stupid stat too. Good he's so horrible. Whine whine whine.

 

I for one am glad that we have a neckbeard white knight poster on TS! Thank you for existing!

 

You really shouldn't take this stuff so seriously.

It's not good for you...

[SoxnCycles]

Strenuously disagree. Right now Buchholz is our third best starter and our fourth best is ERod.

 

The bullpen is the best it's been all year with Kimbrel, Ziegler, Uehara, Ross, Kelly, and Abad. We don't need Buch in the bullpen, especially not when he wasn't that good his last two times out as a reliever.

 

Yup, and about all I'd trust E-rod with, as far as the playoffs are concerned, is watching them from the dugout.

[moonslav59]

Yes. I agree, and I realize that Price's playoff history isn't what we wish it were. That was my concern in signing him and I think I said it someplace, that Price may be a guy who can get us there but doesn't have a history of getting his team out the other side unscathed.

 

What I was referring to in his 'history' is how well he's pitched during the second half of this year. I tend to optimistically think a player's next performance is more closely related to his most recent starts than it is to anything else.

 

My bad. I should have been clearer.

 

No problem. When I think of "history", I think going farther back.

 

If you look at recent performance, we have 5 aces right now:

 

last 28 days:

 

5-0 1.85 Price (34 IP)

4-0 2.52 Porcello (36)

0-1 2.60 ERod (17)

2-1 2.73 Buch (26- some in relief)

2-2 2.90 Pomeranz (31)

 

A longer recent look (2nd Half):

8-1 2.57 Porcello (74 IP)

1-3 2.73 ERod (53)

3-1 2.95 Buch (37, some in relief)

6-2 3.07 Price (73)

2-4 3.97 Pomeranz (57)

3-1 5.06 Wright (43)

 

[moonslav59]

We don't need Buch in the bullpen, especially not when he wasn't that good his last two times out as a reliever.

 

We could use Buch and a reliever, and we could use his clone as a RP'er.

 

His 6 relief appearances before the last 2 were brilliant:

 

7.1 IP 0 ER 1 hit 2 BB

[SoxnCycles]

We don't need Buch in the bullpen, especially not when he wasn't that good his last two times out as a reliever.

 

We could use Buch and a reliever, and we could use his clone as a RP'er.

 

His 6 relief appearances before the last 2 were brilliant:

 

7.1 IP 0 ER 1 hit 2 BB

 

Assuming Wright continues to have shoulder issues, Buchholz is going to get about 4 more starts.

If he goes on a run, like he has in the past, he'll be too valuable to go to the pen.

[a700hitter]

Rotation for the playoffs should be:

 

1. Price

2. Porcello

3. Pomeranz

4. ERod/Buch in a piggyback

[Maxbialystock]

We don't need Buch in the bullpen, especially not when he wasn't that good his last two times out as a reliever.

 

We could use Buch and a reliever, and we could use his clone as a RP'er.

 

His 6 relief appearances before the last 2 were brilliant:

 

7.1 IP 0 ER 1 hit 2 BB

 

Those 6 were what got him another shot at starting, and that's where it is obvious he wants to be. More importantly, it's now clear that's where Farrell wants him to be. How else explain moving Buchholz up to pitch the 3d game at Toronto? As I explained in the game thread for tonight, Farrell saw him start every game when he was brilliant in 2013 and my guess is that Farrell thinks he is close to the 2013 (first half) version right now. If he is right, it would be a terrible waste to throw Buchholz back into the bullpen to maybe pitch the 6th inning of a game when the Sox are down by 5. I believe relievers need a certain mindset that is different from starters. The few times good starters, like Eckersley, became good relievers was when they became closers, and Farrell isn't going to let Buchholz close.

[moonslav59]

Buchholz is going to get about 4 more starts.

If he goes on a run, like he has in the past, he'll be too valuable to go to the pen.

 

I don't disagree, but one could say the same about ERod and Pompom as well.

[moonslav59]

Those 6 were what got him another shot at starting, and that's where it is obvious he wants to be. More importantly, it's now clear that's where Farrell wants him to be. How else explain moving Buchholz up to pitch the 3d game at Toronto? As I explained in the game thread for tonight, Farrell saw him start every game when he was brilliant in 2013 and my guess is that Farrell thinks he is close to the 2013 (first half) version right now. If he is right, it would be a terrible waste to throw Buchholz back into the bullpen to maybe pitch the 6th inning of a game when the Sox are down by 5. I believe relievers need a certain mindset that is different from starters. The few times good starters, like Eckersley, became good relievers was when they became closers, and Farrell isn't going to let Buchholz close.

 

There's no doubt, when Buch is "on", he's an elite pitcher.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the Buch choice of starting.

 

I'm just down on his inconsistency.

 

I'm riding the hot arm for as long as he takes me.

[SoxnCycles]

Buchholz is going to get about 4 more starts.

If he goes on a run, like he has in the past, he'll be too valuable to go to the pen.

 

I don't disagree, but one could say the same about ERod and Pompom as well.

 

True, but if we're talking about playoff starts, I trust a guy that has been there before, rather than a kid with a years worth of ML starts.

Pomeranz will be an option, if the workload doesn't catch up to him by the end of the season.

 

Go with Buchholz until he gets injured or flops.

[Maxbialystock]

There's no doubt, when Buch is "on", he's an elite pitcher.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the Buch choice of starting.

 

I'm just down on his inconsistency.

 

I'm riding the hot arm for as long as he takes me.

 

Everything you say is fair to Buchholz. I think he's in a groove, but agree the next 4 games will confirm or not confirm.

[Maxbialystock]

Rotation for the playoffs should be:

 

1. Price

2. Porcello

3. Pomeranz

4. ERod/Buch in a piggyback

 

I disagree about Pomeranz, but who the hell cares? By the end of the season Farrell will have a much clearer picture on all five. I could be wrong about Buchholz just as you could be about Pomeranz.

[moonslav59]

I disagree about Pomeranz, but who the hell cares? By the end of the season Farrell will have a much clearer picture on all five. I could be wrong about Buchholz just as you could be about Pomeranz.

 

These guys are all doing so well, so it's not easy to choose right now, but you're right; after 4 more starts, someone will probably have slipped out of favor.

[a700hitter]

I disagree about Pomeranz, but who the hell cares? By the end of the season Farrell will have a much clearer picture on all five. I could be wrong about Buchholz just as you could be about Pomeranz.

I am not all that sure about Pom either. After some more thought, here is how I would go into the playoffs.

 

1. Price

2. Porcello

3. Pomeranz/ Buch in a piggyback

4. ERod/Buch in a piggyback

 

If Buch is needed to piggyback Pom, he will obviously not be available to piggyback ERod. If Pom can go deep into the game, Buch can piggyback ERod.

[Hugh2]

I know people in here hate WAR but in the 2nd half Porcello is tied for 1st with A.L. pitchers with a 2.1 FWar, and Price is 4th behind him Sale and Verlander. Going down the stretch we have 2 of the top 4 pitchers in the American league right now.

 

SP(1) Price

SP(2) Porcello

 

the top 2 is easy. I'm not sure how I'd play them after that, for the most part I'm done with Clay Buchholz but we all know how good he can be when he's on and if he's still in the middle of one of these great stretches I'd have no Problem throwing him as the #3 guy in the playoffs.

 

I'd love to put Pomeranz 4th, but Erod has been better down the stretch and Pomeranz has experience and a track record of being effective out of the pen. Still I might be wary of a guy who is still as green as Eduardo starting a playoff game and it's not like Drew has sucked down the stretch.

[Hugh2]

If you wanted to go by a pure statistical analysis by weighing heavily what these guys have done during the 2nd have and particularly the past 30 days then the rotation looks like: Price.Porcello.Pomeranz.Buchholz. So perhaps you piggy back Erod or throw him in the pen, my only issue is I don't think Erod has ever pitched out of the pen, so I'm not sure how I feel about him being in the bullpen, honestly he could end up being great there. Both Buchholz and Pomeranz have shown the ability to pitch well out of the bullpen.

[moonslav59]

If you wanted to go by a pure statistical analysis by weighing heavily what these guys have done during the 2nd have and particularly the past 30 days then the rotation looks like: Price.Porcello.Pomeranz.Buchholz. So perhaps you piggy back Erod or throw him in the pen, my only issue is I don't think Erod has ever pitched out of the pen, so I'm not sure how I feel about him being in the bullpen, honestly he could end up being great there. Both Buchholz and Pomeranz have shown the ability to pitch well out of the bullpen.

 

Past 28 days:

ERA/WHIP/OPS against

 

Price 1.85/ 0.824/ .504

Porc 2.52/ 0.785/ .518

ERod 2.60/ 0.750/ .367

Buch 2.73/ 1.215/ .655

Pom 2.90/ 1.097/ .682

 

2nd half...

 

Porc 2.57/ 0.801/ .542

ERod 2.73/ 1.063/ .582

Buch 2.95/ 1.091/ .616

Price 3.07/ 1.227/ .688

Pom 3.97/ 1.324/ .688

 

I'm not sure how the stats with focus on recent are showing Pomeranz is #3.

[oldtimer]

I wonder why JF left Porcello in for 130 pitches. Seems kind of high with an 11 to 2 lead in the 8th.

[moonslav59]

I wonder why JF left Porcello in for 130 pitches. Seems kind of high with an 11 to 2 lead in the 8th.

 

I thought it was 114 pitches.

[SoxHop]

I wonder why JF left Porcello in for 130 pitches. Seems kind of high with an 11 to 2 lead in the 8th.

 

I believe Moon is right.

 

But where did you come up with 130? I've been spacey with stats too..... I'm just wondering if we are related?

[moonslav59]

But where did you come up with 130?

 

Maybe the desire to bash JF is causing hallucinations.

[Maxbialystock]

We should all bash Farrell when it is working this good. Watching Farrell manage is like peering into a neuron free cyclotron. He's the only mlb manager who worries about going outside the lines when he colors in the lineup card. We are lucky Ziegler went in for the 8th because he called for Wright.

[oldtimer]

That was the number which showed up on the watch live screden, I didn't make that up.

[oldtimer]

But where did you come up with 130?

 

Maybe the desire to bash JF is causing hallucinations.

 

That's a nasty comment. Could it be that was actually shown on the live watch screen?

[Bellhorn04]

That was the number which showed up on the watch live screden, I didn't make that up.

 

Yes, when I checked GameDay in the 8th it showed Porcello still in the game at 130 pitches...I guess the operator was drunk.

[Nick]

Big test for E Rod today. He seems to pitch well against the Orioles. Too lazy to look up what he's done againt the Blue Jays. I like what I've been seeing from him.

 

With Wright being out indefinitely, Clay B appears to be coming back. I hate it that he does just enough to sucker us in again. But that's for this off season discussion.

 

Having Koji back definitely helps. Next up, Benintendi. We're beginning to look like definite contenders.

[southpaw777]

True, but if we're talking about playoff starts, I trust a guy that has been there before, rather than a kid with a years worth of ML starts.

Pomeranz will be an option, if the workload doesn't catch up to him by the end of the season.

 

Go with Buchholz until he gets injured or flops.

 

Buch makes the most sense for the rotation for all those reason that you have listed above and Ive said in past posts.

Erod has zero PO experience (and i just dont feel comfortable with him in a high pressure playoff game right now) and Pomeranz will be at a career IP by the end of September.

If Buch continues his hot run, the obvious choice is to ride that hot arm. At their best Buchholz is better than Pom or Erod IMHO and has more playoff experience.

[Kimmi]

Buchholz will have his work cut out for him pitching in the rubber game against Sanchez. So will our offense.

[moonslav59]

That's a nasty comment. Could it be that was actually shown on the live watch screen?

 

Sorry, I meant it as a joke.

[moonslav59]

Buchholz will have his work cut out for him pitching in the rubber game against Sanchez. So will our offense.

 

We do pretty well when we face very good pitchers.

 

I think we'll score 5+ tomorrow.

 

Let's hope Buch & Co. can keep them under 5.