Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[a700hitter]

Even the Buch bashers must be starting to wonder "what if...?"

 

Nice start, Clay. Just keep doing what you have to do, and who knows what might happen.

His entire career has been a "what if"

[moonslav59]

ERA for the Second Half

 

3.21 Price (53 IP)

2.25 Porcello (52)

2.52 ERod (39)

4.23 Pom (38)

4.13 Wright (32)

3.00 Buchholz (27)

 

 

[moonslav59]

His entire career has been a "what if"

 

So true, but not long ago, it was what if we DFA him?

[a700hitter]

So true, but not long ago, it was what if we DFA him?

Even Buch suspected that his time in Boston was coming to an end. It had nothing to do with haters. It had everything to do with sucking. He was just terrible. After this rebirth, he is still carrying a 5.18 ERA -- that's how bad he was.

[moonslav59]

77 AL SP'ers with 60+ IP (about 5 pr team x 15 teams)

 

Sox ranking by....

 

WAR

6 Price

8 Wright

9 Porcello

(Pomeranz ranked 28th out of 150 in MLB)

 

ERA-

6 Wright

9 Porcello

(18 Pomeranz out of 150 in MLB)

28 Price

 

WHIP

5 Porcello

(32 Pomeranz out of 150 in MLB)

19 Wright

22 Price

 

Add ERod and Buch to these 4, and suddenly our rotation is looking sharp.

 

2nd Half WAR (143 starters with 20+ IP)

4) Sale

12) Quintana

13) Wright

17) Porcello

18) Lester

19) Price

20) Hellickson

33) ERod

34) Odorizzi

46) Lackey

56) Smyly

91) Miley

93) Moore

112) Pomeranz

120) Samardzja

142) Shields

(Buch: DNQ as tonight's game not included)

 

 

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Even the Buch bashers must be starting to wonder "what if...?"

 

Nice start, Clay. Just keep doing what you have to do, and who knows what might happen.

 

Holding onto him has worked out, that's for sure. Cutting him loose for nothing or little in return would have been a serious mistake especially considering our lack of depth. I guess you have to credit management for the way they kept him afloat this year. The roster has been very well managed this year for the most part.

[moonslav59]

Holding onto him has worked out, that's for sure. Cutting him loose for nothing or little in return would have been a serious mistake especially considering our lack of depth. I guess you have to credit management for the way they kept him afloat this year. The roster has been very well managed this year for the most part.

 

I agree.

 

Kelly Owens and even O'Sullivan have been given a long enough chance to prove themselves worthy of continuing in a meaningful role. Elias has not gotten a long look, but I think Sox management has realized he has not been at the point of ML effectiveness to get a longer look. We've used 10 starters this year, including Elias' one start.

 

We've used 18 different pitchers in relief, including Buch, Kelly, O'Sullivan and Elias in both roles. Barnes and Hembree have been given ample opportunity, due in part to major RP'er injuries, but they have done well enough to stick around, even when the injured have gotten healthy. I think that's a good thing going forward. Maybe Kelly and Elias eventually get their act together. Maybe Johnson makes an appearance this year. Maybe Kyle martin and some one else gets a September call up.

 

On offense, I think they've done a good job managing the roster. I would have liked to have seen Beni get more reps in LF than he did before being called up, but it appears to have worked out well, so far.

 

[Nick]

I agree.

 

Kelly Owens and even O'Sullivan have been given a long enough chance to prove themselves worthy of continuing in a meaningful role. Elias has not gotten a long look, but I think Sox management has realized he has not been at the point of ML effectiveness to get a longer look. We've used 10 starters this year, including Elias' one start.

 

We've used 18 different pitchers in relief, including Buch, Kelly, O'Sullivan and Elias in both roles. Barnes and Hembree have been given ample opportunity, due in part to major RP'er injuries, but they have done well enough to stick around, even when the injured have gotten healthy. I think that's a good thing going forward. Maybe Kelly and Elias eventually get their act together. Maybe Johnson makes an appearance this year. Maybe Kyle martin and some one else gets a September call up.

 

On offense, I think they've done a good job managing the roster. I would have liked to have seen Beni get more reps in LF than he did before being called up, but it appears to have worked out well, so far.

 

 

Hiring Brian Bannister was a good move. Showing Buch that his pitching slot has dropped significantly over the years is another example of good work he's done. Film does not lie.

[mvp 78]

Wright is supposed to come back and pitch this weekend. What do you think he'll look like? I don't really believe he's a sub 3 ERA guy, but if he's a sub 4 ERA guy who can pitch a ton of innings he'd still have tremendous value.

[Dojji]

i doubt the layoff had any real effect on his stuff. We'll see

[Nick]

Wright is supposed to come back and pitch this weekend. What do you think he'll look like? I don't really believe he's a sub 3 ERA guy, but if he's a sub 4 ERA guy who can pitch a ton of innings he'd still have tremendous value.

 

One thing I like about Wright is he does recognize when the 'control' goes away. He makes quick adjustments. It's doesn't always work but he seems to understand his knuckle ball. Plus he's a competitor. Just don't have him run the bases. Ugh.

[Dojji]

That was a dumb decision, but it was a dumb decision that bit us in the ass as hard as it is physically possible. We got unlucky. We should never have put ourselves in the position to get that unlucky, but an injury that took one of our best starters out for weeks is kind of the fringe worst case scenario outcome here.

[sk7326]

Wright is supposed to come back and pitch this weekend. What do you think he'll look like? I don't really believe he's a sub 3 ERA guy, but if he's a sub 4 ERA guy who can pitch a ton of innings he'd still have tremendous value.

 

He throws a knuckleball ... if the knuckleball feels like rolling out of bed and going to work, things will be fine. If the knuckleball comes down with a cold, or has a bad attitude, it's trouble. Wright is basically a jockey here - on some basic level, it's up to the horse whether to do its thing. I've given up on thinking too much about it.

[oldtimer]

I agree.

 

Kelly Owens and even O'Sullivan have been given a long enough chance to prove themselves worthy of continuing in a meaningful role. Elias has not gotten a long look, but I think Sox management has realized he has not been at the point of ML effectiveness to get a longer look. We've used 10 starters this year, including Elias' one start.

 

We've used 18 different pitchers in relief, including Buch, Kelly, O'Sullivan and Elias in both roles. Barnes and Hembree have been given ample opportunity, due in part to major RP'er injuries, but they have done well enough to stick around, even when the injured have gotten healthy. I think that's a good thing going forward. Maybe Kelly and Elias eventually get their act together. Maybe Johnson makes an appearance this year. Maybe Kyle martin and some one else gets a September call up.

 

On offense, I think they've done a good job managing the roster. I would have liked to have seen Beni get more reps in LF than he did before being called up, but it appears to have worked out well, so far.

 

 

Kelly has a great arm but has yet to learn how to pitch. I advocate being patient with him as he might still give us a lift. If not this year, perhaps he can break into a staff position next season.The front office recognizes the problems the Red Sox have had in developing its young pitchers. The method of correcting that problem hasn't been well defined but we do have talent in the minors.

[Wade Boggs]

Kelly has a great arm but has yet to learn how to pitch. I advocate being patient with him as he might still give us a lift. If not this year, perhaps he can break into a staff position next season.The front office recognizes the problems the Red Sox have had in developing its young pitchers. The method of correcting that problem hasn't been well defined but we do have talent in the minors.

 

I watched the Jason Groome start yesterday when I was on lunch on the weei cast. He looked good . He was throwing darts, even the pitches that the ump called balls looked good . The pitches had some snap and bite on them He will be up in the next 2 years if they don't trade him. jmo

[moonslav59]

I watched the Jason Groome start yesterday when I was on lunch on the weei cast. He looked good . He was throwing darts, even the pitches that the ump called balls looked good . The pitches had some snap and bite on them He will be up in the next 2 years if they don't trade him. jmo

 

I think with Espi gone, Groome stays.

 

It might be 3-5 years for Groome to make it. He's only 18.

[illinoisredsox]

I think with Espi gone, Groome stays.

 

It might be 3-5 years for Groome to make it. He's only 18.

 

He's 18 as of yesterday. This is a very young kid.

[Slasher9]

He's 18 as of yesterday. This is a very young kid.

 

true. but he's from Jersey. 18 yo from new jersey is like a 24 year old from the hillbilly states...

[Spudboy]

true. but he's from Jersey. 18 yo from new jersey is like a 24 year old from the hillbilly states...

 

Major lulz.

 

Porcello is a Jersey boy too. I don't know his career path all that well but he was brought up early - ish at 20 or 21.

[Nick]

18 year olds serve in the military.....There's nothing magic about being 23 to make it. Why is our expectation so low? This kid was a projected #1 overall pick at one point. I just don't get the temper the expectation crap on this board.

 

Will we hurt his little feelings?

[Bellhorn04]

18 year olds serve in the military.....There's nothing magic about being 23 to make it. Why is our expectation so low? This kid was a projected #1 overall pick at one point. I just don't get the temper the expectation crap on this board.

 

Will we hurt his little feelings?

 

It's not about low expectations, it's about realistic expectations based on how long it takes most young pitchers to develop.

 

Dombrowski is a believer in promoting them ASAP, so you don't have to worry much about him being babied.

[mvp 78]

How many pitchers come in at 18 and pitch with a lot of success? Just because he was drafted in the 1st round and could be the best overall player, doesn't mean he's ready to perform at a big league level.

 

Even "can't miss" guys like Urias come up and struggle a little. It's silly to expect that Groome would do anything but get bombed in the bigs right now.

[sk7326]

18 year olds serve in the military.....There's nothing magic about being 23 to make it. Why is our expectation so low? This kid was a projected #1 overall pick at one point. I just don't get the temper the expectation crap on this board.

 

Will we hurt his little feelings?

 

It's not about his feelings - it's about his body.

 

Even if he is ready to pitch - will he be ready to handle 170 big league innings in 2 years ... you have to bet the under. And his body still has to fill out (it is the best argument for moving Espinoza).

[illinoisredsox]

How many pitchers come in at 18 and pitch with a lot of success? Just because he was drafted in the 1st round and could be the best overall player, doesn't mean he's ready to perform at a big league level.

 

Even "can't miss" guys like Urias come up and struggle a little. It's silly to expect that Groome would do anything but get bombed in the bigs right now.

 

Bob Feller signed at 17 and went right to the Guardians; he was okay but didn't really show his Hall of Fame ability until he was 20-21 and had been around 3-4 years.

 

Sandy Koufax went right to the Dodgers at age 19. He didn't become the pitcher we remember until he was 25.

[sk7326]

Bob Feller signed at 17 and went right to the Guardians; he was okay but didn't really show his Hall of Fame ability until he was 20-21 and had been around 3-4 years.

 

Sandy Koufax went right to the Dodgers at age 19. He didn't become the pitcher we remember until he was 25.

 

industry is a lot smarter now

[a700hitter]

industry is a lot smarter now

it has nothing to do with being smarter now. The reason why Koufax had to go straight to the major leagues was that he was a "Bonus Baby". The league wasn't going to let the wealthier teams sign all the top talent and stock their minor leagues with them. If you wanted to sign these high priced top talents, he had to be kept on the major league roster.

[illinoisredsox]

industry is a lot smarter now

 

Exactly, which is why it will probably be 3 years minimum before he sees a major league mound; Those guys were Hall of Famers and it took that long to harness their abilities. And he has to learn to deal with failure.

 

Player who's hitting .220 in the low minors after a few weeks: "I don't understand. I hit .600 in high school. How come I can't hit now?"

 

Manager: "Did you ever go 0-3 or 1-4 against anyone?"

 

Player: "Sure, a few times"

 

Manager: "Those are the guys we signed."

 

No difference or even harder for pitchers, who are used to blowing away 98% of guys they faced as amateurs. The 2% who could hit them are the guys who signed pro contracts.

[Kimmi]

Holding onto him has worked out, that's for sure. Cutting him loose for nothing or little in return would have been a serious mistake especially considering our lack of depth. I guess you have to credit management for the way they kept him afloat this year. The roster has been very well managed this year for the most part.

 

Kudos to management for not DFAing Buchholz. The roster has been managed well lately, but earlier in the year, it was one big fustercluck for a while.

[sk7326]

it has nothing to do with being smarter now. The reason why Koufax had to go straight to the major leagues was that he was a "Bonus Baby". The league wasn't going to let the wealthier teams sign all the top talent and stock their minor leagues with them. If you wanted to sign these high priced top talents, he had to be kept on the major league roster.

 

All aspects of the industry are smarter now ... in 2016 he probably takes a couple more years to blow out his elbow

[Spudboy]

Kudos to management for not DFAing Buchholz. The roster has been managed well lately, but earlier in the year, it was one big fustercluck for a while.

 

 

Lol.

 

Let your hair down!

 

It's clusterf***!!!!1!!