Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Kimmi]

And Buch will squash your hopes every time. He did it to me this year for the last time.

 

Yes, he does have a knack for doing that. I'm a slow learner. I'm still hopeful he'll turn it around for the remainder of the season.

[a700hitter]

Yes, he does have a knack for doing that. I'm a slow learner. I'm still hopeful he'll turn it around for the remainder of the season.

How many seasons has he pitched complete second halves?

[moonslav59]

Everything about 2010 is forgettable. Buch's ERA was 2.33, but his FIP was 3.61. I'd take 173 innings from 2010 Buchholz and wouldn't complain. Even that year, he needed a month off to lick his wounds.

 

I honestly don't remember how I felt about his performance throughout the year. Game Score has that year as similar to 2016 Price as well.

 

FIP and xFIP has its use, but I don't like relying on that too much. It devalues pitchers who don't get a lot of K's.

 

Prime example: it's got Price as doing better than Wright this year!

 

FIP

Price 3.42

Wright 3.63

 

xFIP

Price 3.16

Wright 4.42

 

ERA-

Wright 60

Price 96

 

Too me, ERA- is more accurate.

[moonslav59]

How many seasons has he pitched complete second halves?

 

Good point!

[Kimmi]

How many seasons has he pitched complete second halves?

 

Well it's not something I would bet my paycheck on, but I will remain hopeful.

[Slasher9]

Well it's not something I would bet my paycheck on, but I will remain hopeful.

 

IN!!!!

[kenmeister]

Last year I had zero issue with the option being picked up.

 

I do remember preferring at the time that they keep Rich Hill and let Buchholz go, but it wasn't as strong a preference as hindsight now tells me. And that's because of Henry Owens. I thought if Buchholz gave us the typical half-season, that Henry Owens would be ready by then to join the starting rotation for good. So the season would end Price, Porcello, E-Rod, Kelly, Owens. Didn't work out that way now did it?

[moonslav59]

I do remember preferring at the time that they keep Rich Hill and let Buchholz go, but it wasn't as strong a preference as hindsight now tells me. And that's because of Henry Owens. I thought if Buchholz gave us the typical half-season, that Henry Owens would be ready by then to join the starting rotation for good. So the season would end Price, Porcello, E-Rod, Kelly, Owens. Didn't work out that way now did it?

 

I also worried Hill would not last a full season.

[mvp 78]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2016/07/borges_david_price_not_a_rip_off_so_far

 

Price has faced four No. 1 pitchers, and the Sox are 1-3 in those games. In the losses, they twice scored only one run. Price was exemplary in two of those games, losing a thrilling 2-1 pitchers’ duel to the Giants’ Madison Bumgarner on June 8 in which he went eight innings and allowed only three hits and two earned runs, and less than a week later losing 3-2 to the Orioles’ Chris Tillman in a game in which he gave up five hits and three runs in eight innings. One can hardly argue he failed to do his job in those outings. Then there was Sunday’s loss to Masahiro Tanaka in which he was hit hard.

 

The point is against the aces, Price has pitched pretty much like an ace himself, but the bats went silent. So yes, David Price has been a bit of a disappointment to date, but not as big a disappointment as you might think because had the booming bats of Boston simply made their average amount of noise in his 20 starts, the Sox would be 16-4 in those games.

 

I will defer to the professionals.

[User Name]

Nah, Price sucks, Buch rules.

[moonslav59]

Almost all huge FA signings lead to unmet expectations- often in the first year or two- the years they were supposed to do so great that they cancel out the back-end low expectation years.

[mvp 78]

Almost all huge FA signings lead to unmet expectations- often in the first year or two- the years they were supposed to do so great that they cancel out the back-end low expectation years.

 

My expectation for the staff this year was "hey, just keep us in the game and allow us to compete for the division." So far, so good.

[Bellhorn04]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2016/07/borges_david_price_not_a_rip_off_so_far

 

Price has faced four No. 1 pitchers, and the Sox are 1-3 in those games. In the losses, they twice scored only one run. Price was exemplary in two of those games, losing a thrilling 2-1 pitchers’ duel to the Giants’ Madison Bumgarner on June 8 in which he went eight innings and allowed only three hits and two earned runs, and less than a week later losing 3-2 to the Orioles’ Chris Tillman in a game in which he gave up five hits and three runs in eight innings. One can hardly argue he failed to do his job in those outings. Then there was Sunday’s loss to Masahiro Tanaka in which he was hit hard.

 

The point is against the aces, Price has pitched pretty much like an ace himself, but the bats went silent. So yes, David Price has been a bit of a disappointment to date, but not as big a disappointment as you might think because had the booming bats of Boston simply made their average amount of noise in his 20 starts, the Sox would be 16-4 in those games.

 

I will defer to the professionals.

 

I'm not buying this analysis.

 

Price's run support has been 4.96 per game. Yes, that's below the Red Sox team average per game, but it's also equal to the average per game of Baltimore, who are second in runs scored.

[moonslav59]

I'm not buying this analysis.

 

Price's run support has been 4.96 per game. Yes, that's below the Red Sox team average per game, but it's also equal to the average per game of Baltimore, who are second in runs scored.

 

And it's more than what he got on previous teams

[illinoisredsox]

I'm not buying this analysis.

 

Price's run support has been 4.96 per game. Yes, that's below the Red Sox team average per game, but it's also equal to the average per game of Baltimore, who are second in runs scored.

 

But the deviation on that is ridiculous. His first 11 starts (through the end of May) they got him about 7 runs a a game. Since June 1 they've scored 24 runs n 9 games (and 8 of them were in that disaster in Texas).

 

If he were consistently getting 5 runs a game it would be great. But lately it's been less than 3 and in many of those it's been 1. Nobody wins many games with that level of support.

 

As I posted in the game thread the other day, Kershaw is something like 22-43 when getting 2 or less runs per game, which is quite amazing. Bumgarner is 10-48 which I suspect is pretty typical.

Edited July 19, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[Dojji]

That's an unreasonable expectation in baseball. An ace needs to be able to pull out 1-0 wins from time to time. He has to be able to win with what he's given to work with, especially if he's paid like an ace. And what Price has been given to work with is usually good enough to win with, if you're an ace.

[Spudboy]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2016/07/borges_david_price_not_a_rip_off_so_far

 

Price has faced four No. 1 pitchers, and the Sox are 1-3 in those games. In the losses, they twice scored only one run. Price was exemplary in two of those games, losing a thrilling 2-1 pitchers’ duel to the Giants’ Madison Bumgarner on June 8 in which he went eight innings and allowed only three hits and two earned runs, and less than a week later losing 3-2 to the Orioles’ Chris Tillman in a game in which he gave up five hits and three runs in eight innings. One can hardly argue he failed to do his job in those outings. Then there was Sunday’s loss to Masahiro Tanaka in which he was hit hard.

 

The point is against the aces, Price has pitched pretty much like an ace himself, but the bats went silent. So yes, David Price has been a bit of a disappointment to date, but not as big a disappointment as you might think because had the booming bats of Boston simply made their average amount of noise in his 20 starts, the Sox would be 16-4 in those games.

 

I will defer to the professionals.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!1!1!11

[Spudboy]

Excellent f***ing post.

 

 

edit : ingnore this post! lol

Edited July 19, 2016 by Spudboy

[Spudboy]

But the deviation on that is ridiculous. His first 11 starts (through the end of May) they got him about 7 runs a a game. Since June 1 they've scored 24 runs n 9 games (and 8 of them were in that disaster in Texas).

 

If he were consistently getting 5 runs a game it would be great. But lately it's been less than 3 and in many of those it's been 1. Nobody wins many games with that level of support.

 

As I posted in the game thread the other day, Kershaw is something like 22-43 when getting 2 or less runs per game, which is quite amazing. Bumgarner is 10-48 which I suspect is pretty typical.

 

Excellent f***ing post.

[Kimmi]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2016/07/borges_david_price_not_a_rip_off_so_far

 

Price has faced four No. 1 pitchers, and the Sox are 1-3 in those games. In the losses, they twice scored only one run. Price was exemplary in two of those games, losing a thrilling 2-1 pitchers’ duel to the Giants’ Madison Bumgarner on June 8 in which he went eight innings and allowed only three hits and two earned runs, and less than a week later losing 3-2 to the Orioles’ Chris Tillman in a game in which he gave up five hits and three runs in eight innings. One can hardly argue he failed to do his job in those outings. Then there was Sunday’s loss to Masahiro Tanaka in which he was hit hard.

 

The point is against the aces, Price has pitched pretty much like an ace himself, but the bats went silent. So yes, David Price has been a bit of a disappointment to date, but not as big a disappointment as you might think because had the booming bats of Boston simply made their average amount of noise in his 20 starts, the Sox would be 16-4 in those games.

 

I will defer to the professionals.

 

Thank you for deferring to me.

 

Perhaps the bats went silent against other aces because those guys actually pitched like aces? That's what aces do. They shut down the other team's offense.

 

I'm actually not upset about the way Price pitched against Bumgarner or Tillman. However, his body of work this season on the whole has not been ace like. He has been okay to good for the most part, but that's not what we got him for.

[Kimmi]

Excellent f***ing post.

 

 

edit : ingnore this post! lol

 

LOL This cracked me up.

[moonslav59]

Thank you for deferring to me.

 

Perhaps the bats went silent against other aces because those guys actually pitched like aces? That's what aces do. They shut down the other team's offense.

 

I'm actually not upset about the way Price pitched against Bumgarner or Tillman. However, his body of work this season on the whole has not been ace like. He has been okay to good for the most part, but that's not what we got him for.

 

The xFIP crowd thinks Price is doing just fine and has had some bad luck on the timing of his run support.

 

The ERA- crowd (me included) feel he has not met expectations so far.

 

Let's hope he sheds the whole poor playoff record mantra to even out this year's regular season blues.

[Slasher9]

Maybe his postseason suck won't even matter. You really only need 3 starters.

Wright

Porcello

Buch (pomeranz) (erod)

 

Wonder how price is out of the pen????

[a700hitter]

Ridiculous

[moonslav59]

maybe his postseason suck won't even matter. You really only need 3 starters.

Wright

porcello

buch (pomeranz) (erod)

 

wonder how price is out of the pen????

 

lol

[Bellhorn04]

Price did pitch out of the pen once in last year's playoffs.

[a700hitter]

Price did pitch out of the pen once in last year's playoffs.

So has Pedro, Randy Johnson and Bumgarner.

[Slasher9]

Time to trade for another RP.

Or......

 

Clay or Kelly as closer?

[Palodios]

Tazawa is supposedly coming back on Friday. Barnes and Hambree are serviceable. Ziegler can close.

[Nick]

I like Ziegler because he keeps balls in the park. There's always that chance for a double play when he walks a guy.

 

The way I see it he has to give up 3 singles to give up a run. Assuming all .333 hitter, 1/27 chance of happening (assuming 2 outs)