Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[iortiz]

Lol!

[SinceYaz]

Uehara has two qualities I love in a pitcher--a great splitter and a the guts of a jewel thief when it comes to throwing that fastball, which these days is around 86 mph. He probably isn't as good as he was in 2013, but you have to love the way he pitched the 11th today for the save. Personality-wise, he is a lot easier to root for than that dipstick Papelbon even though Papelbon had a helluva track record in Boston (and I guess the Phillies and Nationals).

 

You are spot on about Koji. I like your description of his guile. I liked Pap a lot and my wife wondered who the dancing fool was, which she said with humorous admiration instead of snippiness. From a distance, since he is no longer a Red Sox, I have been bemused by his behavior. I still like him, Pap, but wish he'd not make such a mess of things for himself and his mates.

 

Koji was a breath of fresh air. I still love his approach. He's a tick off his fantastic season, but that's ok.

[User Name]

I will defer to your knowledge about bitches since you seem to be the Queen Bee.

 

Well continue on your path of douchiness since you're not long for this site. Word of advice: Stop trolling and focus on baseball if you want to stay here. You ousted yourself as a pathetic Yankee fan troll way too quick. Use the Jacko approach of providing at least some insight instead of constant idiocy so we can tolerate you around here. In other words: fix your tampon if it's making you so uncomfortable that it's bringing you to the verge of tears and it's making you so angry that you have to come be an ******* on a Red Sox website to make yourself feel better.

[Bellhorn04]

Babe was permanently banned from BDC. He never learns. He could talk baseball if he wanted to, but he has this weird compulsion to piss other people off.

[jacksonianmarch]

Back on topic.

 

Suckholz actually looked good in his inning. Sharp curve, 93 or so on the heat. Might not be a bad thing for you guys to have him out there

[User Name]

It would be hilarious if Buchholz ended up settling into an effective setup role. Jacko correctly (as I throw up in my mouth from writing "Jacko" and "correctly" in the same sentence) the uptick in velocity.

 

Farrell stated that other than the middle-middle curveball shot back up for a single, Buchholz was very very sharp and was giving the catcher exactly what he was asking for in the desired location.

 

On a side note: Matt Moore (Rays) and Hector Santiago (Angels) appear to be available. Both are lefties with good stuff but terrible command. Moore also has K stuff and was extremely highly regarded coming up the Rays' system until he underwent TJS.

[southpaw777]

Back on topic.

 

Suckholz actually looked good in his inning. Sharp curve, 93 or so on the heat. Might not be a bad thing for you guys to have him out there

 

Buch is so heady about routines and having a set pattern of doing things, that going to the pen and really not having a set pattern might be good for him. Just learn to warn up a little quicker. But his "stuff" looked good and played up well. I know its only one start, but like UN said...imagine if what most, including me, thought about Buchholz going to the pen, turned into just the opposite. Buch having an important role in late inning, high leverage situations, and being successful...

[mvp 78]

Back on topic.

 

Suckholz actually looked good in his inning. Sharp curve, 93 or so on the heat. Might not be a bad thing for you guys to have him out there

 

Paplebon HWY

[Slasher9]

You cannot be this stupid, therefore you have to be trolling.

 

I wonder who tried to tell you this a week ago?

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Well continue on your path of douchiness since you're not long for this site. Word of advice: Stop trolling and focus on baseball if you want to stay here. You ousted yourself as a pathetic Yankee fan troll way too quick. Use the Jacko approach of providing at least some insight instead of constant idiocy so we can tolerate you around here. In other words: fix your tampon if it's making you so uncomfortable that it's bringing you to the verge of tears and it's making you so angry that you have to come be an ******* on a Red Sox website to make yourself feel better.

 

Actually, my original post was baseball related, it was you who started with the atracks.

 

I believe it's you that is a thin skinned *******.

 

Get back to the thread topic and ignore me if you don't like what I post.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Babe was permanently banned from BDC. He never learns. He could talk baseball if he wanted to, but he has this weird compulsion to piss other people off.

 

Incorrect, I was talking baseball.

 

It was username who went off topic and made it personal.

 

At least get your facts straight.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Buch is so heady about routines and having a set pattern of doing things, that going to the pen and really not having a set pattern might be good for him. Just learn to warn up a little quicker. But his "stuff" looked good and played up well. I know its only one start, but like UN said...imagine if what most, including me, thought about Buchholz going to the pen, turned into just the opposite. Buch having an important role in late inning, high leverage situations, and being successful...

 

$13M/yr is expensive for a set up guy.

[User Name]

Actually, my original post was baseball related, it was you who started with the atracks.

 

I believe it's you that is a thin skinned *******.

 

Get back to the thread topic and ignore me if you don't like what I post.

 

You're just not very good at trolling. Good trolls don't ride the "Whaaaaambulance" this hard bro.

 

By the way, your response (and subsequent ones) was baseball related the same way anti-vaxxers are science-based. You need to learn some reading comprehension too.

[User Name]

I wonder who tried to tell you this a week ago?

 

You've been pretty troll-like too. As I explained to another poster, people aren't banned here based on hearsay. If he proves he's a troll (well on his way) then he gets banned. This isn't the cold war, and we don't own an espionage network to filter new posters.

[devildavid]

I still think Buchholz is finished in Boston. They need to find another decent starter. Clay can go elsewhere to fulfill his star potential.

[harmony]

Does anyone know of a forum that is limited to serious discussions about baseball?

[FredLynn]

Back on topic.

 

Suckholz actually looked good in his inning. Sharp curve, 93 or so on the heat. Might not be a bad thing for you guys to have him out there

 

Yes. One good inning. While I certainly hope that he has a lot more good innings, what I can't figure out is this: if he stays in the pen, who goes when ERod returns? Who is Buchholz better than in the pen? I can't think of a single RHRP who he deserves to take the place of. If you are thinking Hembree, think again. His ERA is a paltry 2.14. Not Taz, Koji, Kimbrel, or Barnes (ERA: 2.62 with electric stuff). CB might be better than Layne, but we do need two LHRP. So who goes? Clay in the pen makes the pen worse. As difficult a decision as it was, he should have been either traded or waived.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

You're just not very good at trolling. Good trolls don't ride the "Whaaaaambulance" this hard bro.

 

By the way, your response (and subsequent ones) was baseball related the same way anti-vaxxers are science-based. You need to learn some reading comprehension too.

 

That's funny considering you have done most of the whining.

 

Get back to the topic.

[Kimmi]

Yes. One good inning. While I certainly hope that he has a lot more good innings, what I can't figure out is this: if he stays in the pen, who goes when ERod returns? Who is Buchholz better than in the pen? I can't think of a single RHRP who he deserves to take the place of. If you are thinking Hembree, think again. His ERA is a paltry 2.14. Not Taz, Koji, Kimbrel, or Barnes (ERA: 2.62 with electric stuff). CB might be better than Layne, but we do need two LHRP. So who goes? Clay in the pen makes the pen worse. As difficult a decision as it was, he should have been either traded or waived.

 

I would like to see these players who are scuffling man up and agree to take an AAA assignment even though they know they can't be sent down without their permission. IMO, it would be in both Clay's and the team's best interest if he would go to Pawtucket and work through whatever his problems are. He knows he's been hurting the team, so why not agree to be sent down to figure it out?

 

Now, Clay might very well end up working out in the pen, but there's as good a chance that he won't. Either way, he is more valuable to the team if he can find himself as a starter and be "Good Clay" again.

[FredLynn]

I would like to see these players who are scuffling man up and agree to take an AAA assignment even though they know they can't be sent down without their permission. IMO, it would be in both Clay's and the team's best interest if he would go to Pawtucket and work through whatever his problems are. He knows he's been hurting the team, so why not agree to be sent down to figure it out?

 

Now, Clay might very well end up working out in the pen, but there's as good a chance that he won't. Either way, he is more valuable to the team if he can find himself as a starter and be "Good Clay" again.

 

I agree; ideally Clay would have owned what his performance is to date and agreed to go to Pawtucket (can he even do that without waivers?). Instead, his terse comment to a reporter when asked about this was "I got sent to the #%&* pen. Write that down". His presence in the bullpen is going to hurt the chances that this club has to win games, and in my book, winning games is the bottom line. Someone who has performed better than him is going to get sent down, probably Hembree. Other guys in the pen are going to look at that and wonder if their group is being treated fairly; they may resent Clay's presence in the pen. As tough a decision as it would have been, if Buchholz didn't agree to go to Pawtucket, I would have put him on waivers to preserve team chemistry.

[moonslav59]

Who is Buchholz better than in the pen? I can't think of a single RHRP who he deserves to take the place of.

 

It's not as clear as you make it out to be. Using ERA to judge relief pitchers is flawed. Many come in for just 1-2 outs.

 

Here's the May OPS against vs Sox pitchers:

1.000 Owens

.944 Hembree

.910 O'Sullivan

.835 Uehara

.819 Buchholz

.777 Porcello

.759 Kelly

.722 Price

.619 Layne

.617 Taz

.597 Wright

.570 Barnes

.543 Ross

.473 Smith (gone)

.451 Kimbrel

 

Last 14 days (pen only):

1.000 Uehara

.929 Hembree

.901 Buch

.742 Kimbrel

.721 Layne

.647 Taz

.522 Ross

.347 Barnes

[moonslav59]

I agree; ideally Clay would have owned what his performance is to date and agreed to go to Pawtucket (can he even do that without waivers?). Instead, his terse comment to a reporter when asked about this was "I got sent to the #%&* pen. Write that down". His presence in the bullpen is going to hurt the chances that this club has to win games, and in my book, winning games is the bottom line. Someone who has performed better than him is going to get sent down, probably Hembree. Other guys in the pen are going to look at that and wonder if their group is being treated fairly; they may resent Clay's presence in the pen. As tough a decision as it would have been, if Buchholz didn't agree to go to Pawtucket, I would have put him on waivers to preserve team chemistry.

 

It doesn't bother me at all that Buch was upset about being demoted. He has a lot of pride and has done very well as a SP'er over his career-when healthy.

Sure, in theory, it would be nice for him to publicly fess up and admit he's been terrible, but I think deep down he knows it, and the team doesn't need him whimpering like a scarred puppy to preserve team chemistry.

 

I still feel Buch will bounce back and be a major factor in our championship run this year. I would not waive him, unless we have a deal in place for a SP'er and we need budget space (unlikely).

[User Name]

Buchholz is in a no-win situation there: If he takes it personally, "he's not a team-first guy", if he doesn't "he doesn't care". All he can do is try to produce on the field.

[FredLynn]

Who is Buchholz better than in the pen? I can't think of a single RHRP who he deserves to take the place of.

 

It's not as clear as you make it out to be. Using ERA to judge relief pitchers is flawed. Many come in for just 1-2 outs.

 

Here's the May OPS against vs Sox pitchers:

1.000 Owens

.944 Hembree

.910 O'Sullivan

.835 Uehara

.819 Buchholz

.777 Porcello

.759 Kelly

.722 Price

.619 Layne

.617 Taz

.597 Wright

.570 Barnes

.543 Ross

.473 Smith (gone)

.451 Kimbrel

 

Last 14 days (pen only):

1.000 Uehara

.929 Hembree

.901 Buch

.742 Kimbrel

.721 Layne

.647 Taz

.522 Ross

.347 Barnes

 

Just to simplify it, since its Hembree who is likely to be the one demoted, lets focus on him. I agree that ERA should not be the sole determinant of who is better suited for the pen, Buchholz or Hembree, based on performance. Lets look at WHIP, which is also important: Hembree: 1.381, Buchholz: 1.457. I see no reason to just use statistics for May; a larger sample size is needed-the whole season. Another important stat for a RP: K/BB ratio. Buchholz: 1.5; Hembree: 3.6. And you just cannot ignore the fact that Buchholz has an ERA that is about three times that of Hembree. I do not think Buchholz is better than any of our current RP. He will likely weaken the pen.

[User Name]

Buchholz' stuff may play up though. We can't make a definitive statement without him actually pitching.

[S5Dewey]

Buchholz' stuff may play up though. We can't make a definitive statement without him actually pitching.

 

Yes. This. He's been so brilliant in the past that it would be foolish to give up on him without giving him a chance in the pen, and the only way he gets that chance is to let him pitch.

It's also fair to say that he's probably on a shorter leash than anyone else. That in itself may be a motivation for him.

[devildavid]

I am well past giving up on Buchholz. I hope the FO is diligently looking for a way to replace him. It's best for the team and probably the best for Clay.

[bosoxmal]

Well, boo-hoo, I told them to offer Rich Hill $6-7 Mil, and they said I was nuts! Yes, this is an "I told you so!" post.

[Hugh2]

Well, boo-hoo, I told them to offer Rich Hill $6-7 Mil, and they said I was nuts! Yes, this is an "I told you so!" post.

 

Yup and I was one of them. I'll eat crow....but I'll wait a little longer. Let's see if he can hold up in a rotation for a full season

[southpaw777]

Well, boo-hoo, I told them to offer Rich Hill $6-7 Mil, and they said I was nuts! Yes, this is an "I told you so!" post.

 

Mal,

The Sox didnt have a guarenteed spot in the rotation for him. He was offered a guarenteed spot in Oaklands rotation and he took it, it wasnt that they didnt want him.