2016 Trade and Roster Move Speculation thread

[mvp 78]

He's going to have to put up some pro-longed good numbers in AAA before that happens.

 

So like his AAA performance last year then?

[Eddy Ballgame]

I see Santana as a good 4 starter. He is better than anything we have below ERod, and he might end up being better than ERod over the next 2 years. Yes, he can pitch like a #3, but he may also pitch like a #5 or 6.

 

I prefer acquiring a solid 2 or 3 in replacing our #5 starter. I'm willing to spend more than $13M a year or give up prospects/players like Swihart, Devers, Holt and maybe a mid-level prospect or two.

 

Moonslav,

 

You throw out a lot of trade proposals & seem to include Brock Holt in all of them. The guy is a manager's dream for any team in contention, not necessarily for a team rebuilding, and everything I've seen, read & heard backs that up.

 

Supposedly a lot of contending teams asked about Holt during last off season, and they had no inteterest in moving him. If they didn't move him then, why would they now? Why do you want to trade this guy so bad? He gives any team a ton of flexibilty and does it with a great attitude.

[Hugh2]

 

I totally get that, but unless my numbers were wrong, I had Santana pitching 37 or 47 more IP per season than Buch. That's not comparing a half season pitcher to a full season pitcher as many seem to be portraying the comparison. That's the point I was trying to make. Buch's 91 ERA- compared to Santana's 100 ERA- makes up some of the disparity in IP.

 

Maybe it doesn't bring it as close as I made it out to be by saying it "nearly" evens them out. In hindsight, I wish I worded that differently.

 

If you exclude their rookie seasons because they were both 22 year olds who spent time in the minors then Santana has average about 60 IP more than Clay per year. That is about 1/3 a season, and is significant.

[Hugh2]

 

I totally get that, but unless my numbers were wrong, I had Santana pitching 37 or 47 more IP per season than Buch. That's not comparing a half season pitcher to a full season pitcher as many seem to be portraying the comparison. That's the point I was trying to make. Buch's 91 ERA- compared to Santana's 100 ERA- makes up some of the disparity in IP.

 

Maybe it doesn't bring it as close as I made it out to be by saying it "nearly" evens them out. In hindsight, I wish I worded that differently.

 

I don't think it does make up the disparity, there is not much value in a guy who can only pitch half a season, especially when you have no one to come in and fill the void.

 

If there is any validation to your argument then consider this....Clay is pitching like garbage now and hasn't had a season where he's been healthy AND good in quiet some time. Santana substantially adds more value to the back of the rotation than Clay does. Not only because I think he can stay healthy, but because Clay looks to be done and is probably garbage going forward.

[moonslav59]

 

If you exclude their rookie seasons because they were both 22 year olds who spent time in the minors then Santana has average about 60 IP more than Clay per year. That is about 1/3 a season, and is significant.

 

Agreed.

 

I think the sample sizes I used were the most recent 4 and most recent 7 seasons.

 

Santana's overall history and his 2016 season clearly makes him the much better pitcher.

 

[a700hitter]

Santana had a very nice 7 inning outing today -- that should help his trade value.

[Kimmi]

I would have no problem stashing ERod in AAA if it meant adding some quality depth to the rotation. It may not seem like we need another starter, but if ERod reverts back to his earlier struggles or we have an injury, we're back in the same boat with our #5 pitcher.

 

That said, I had forgotten that Santana was a PEDs user. No thanks. I'd rather have Clay.

[a700hitter]

I would have no problem stashing ERod in AAA if it meant adding some quality depth to the rotation. It may not seem like we need another starter, but if ERod reverts back to his earlier struggles or we have an injury, we're back in the same boat with our #5 pitcher.

 

That said, I had forgotten that Santana was a PEDs user. No thanks. I'd rather have Clay.

I'd rather Clay had used PEDs.

[Nick]

Had Clay used PEDs, maybe he can complete a game under 4 hours.

[a700hitter]

Had Clay used PEDs, maybe he can complete a game under 4 hours.

Maybe some black coffee would have helped him speed up.

[Spudboy]

I'd rather Clay had used PEDs.

 

lol

[moonslav59]

So like his AAA performance last year then?

 

Yes, I think so, although it's hard to judge when a player is "over" anxiety.

[iortiz]

Get Miller, Beltran and Teheran and the WS is ours.

[Spudboy]

Get Miller, Beltran and Teheran and the WS is ours.

 

Nice. Except for what DD would have to pay.

[iortiz]

Nice. Except for what DD would have to pay.

 

That's exactly the part of the story I do not like LOL!.

[Palodios]

The other problem is that the Yankees and Red Sox don't make trades.

[Spudboy]

The other problem is that the Yankees and Red Sox don't make trades.

 

How did Stephen Drew end up a Yankee?

[mvp 78]

How did Stephen Drew end up a Yankee?

 

Or Mike Stanley?

[Palodios]

How did Stephen Drew end up a Yankee?

 

Stephen Drew was hitting .176 at the time. He barely was a major leaguer at that point.

[mvp 78]

Or Don Baylor!

[Bellhorn04]

No meaningful trades?

[Spudboy]

Stephen Drew was hitting .176 at the time. He barely was a major leaguer at that point.

 

What you said is wrong.

 

Man up.

[Spudboy]

No meaningful trades?

 

That I may agree with.

[Palodios]

What you said is wrong.

 

Man up.

 

I didn't forget about Stephen Drew. There hasn't been a meaningful trade between the teams since I started being a Red Sox fan. It just doesn't happen.

[moonslav59]

Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater.

[illinoisredsox]

Or Mike Stanley?

 

That actually was unkowingly a very meaningful trade. When Stanley went to the Yankees, the Sox got Tomy Armas Jr. in return. Armas Jr. was later flipped to Montreal for some pitcher named Pedro Martinez

Edited July 21, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[illinoisredsox]

Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater.

 

Hey the Sox got the immortal Mario Guerrero in that deal as well.

 

On second thought, ugh.

[illinoisredsox]

Baylor for Easler prior to the 1986 season was the last one that involved impact players directly, and there have been a total of 3 deals since.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/trade-partners.cgi?franch_ID_1=BOS&franch_ID_2=NYY

[moonslav59]

Moonslav,

 

You throw out a lot of trade proposals & seem to include Brock Holt in all of them. The guy is a manager's dream for any team in contention, not necessarily for a team rebuilding, and everything I've seen, read & heard backs that up.

 

Supposedly a lot of contending teams asked about Holt during last off season, and they had no inteterest in moving him. If they didn't move him then, why would they now? Why do you want to trade this guy so bad? He gives any team a ton of flexibilty and does it with a great attitude.

 

Many poster suggest trades with players nobody wants.

 

Many posters assume that when another poster suggests trading one of our good players, it means they undervalue that player.

 

I think I value Holt, Swihart and Devers as much as the average Sox fan, but I want something very special in return, so we have to give to get. Here's my thinking in a nutshell:

 

Holt is not as valuable to the Sox after Papi retires and we no longer have one of our roster spots filled by a DH only player.

IMO, Holt is not a plus fielder at 3B, SS, 1B and maybe even OF.

 

I really like Hernandez, and we also have Rutledge, Marrero, and others as our subs going forward.

 

We will need some roster space on the 25 man roster for Moncada & Beni and maybe even Travis. We may also want to keep Leon and Vazquez as our catchers and Swihart as our #3 C and platoon LF'er/corner IF'er. That will mean we need an extra roster space. Havings a third catcher gives us a lot of flexibility that Holt ca not give us as we can PH for our catchers. (Of course if we trade Holt and Swihart that won't be the case.)

[Spudboy]

I didn't forget about Stephen Drew. There hasn't been a meaningful trade between the teams since I started being a Red Sox fan. It just doesn't happen.

 

You stated a falsehood and now you are making excuses.

 

You are quick to point out inaccuracies and mistakes of others but when you are clearly wrong you don't take ownership of your own f***-up.

 

It's okay. I understand your weakness.