2016 Prospects Thread

[Spudboy]

Lol.

[Hugh2]

I get it, the Red Sox broke the rules and if someone else did it it doesn't justify it. You can't justify a murder if your friends gets away with one, but I don't like seeing people bash the Sox for this on one hand and then turn around and bury their heads in the sand about other teams.

 

If you look at last year, out of every team who had restrictions the Sox did this with a higher profile player than anyone else, signing Guaimaro out of Venezuela who was ranked by MLB at#18. Now as a point of reference the guys ranked above and below him were signed for 1.3 and 1.2 million dollars. They also took Simon Muzziotti who was a top 30 guy for 300K as well.

 

So the Sox did it, they are paying the price and all things considered they're not paying that hefty of a price when you really think about it. Guys are being taken away from them they otherwise would not have any chance of having.

 

But if this is a message from MLB to deter other teams from doing it, then we SHOULD be angry and we SHOULD feel that the Sox are getting the short end of the stick if nothing happens to the Yankees or Rays.

 

Both those teams are under restrictions this year but somehow the Rays were able to sign both the 18th and 31st ranked prospect for under 300K, both guys and to give you an ideal of what those guys sign for take a look at the following link.

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/134058394/clubs-sign-top-july-2-international-prospects

 

There is no way those teams are making those deals without circumnavigating the rules the same way the Sox did. The Yankees are also tied in to the #25 prospect, there is no way he is signing for 300K without some kind of package deal.

 

If this truly isn't a witch hunt, then something will have to give here because that is literally happening. If the Sox are alone on this then how are the Rays getting Diego Infante and Roimer for 300K and how are the Yankees getting Roancy Contreras???

 

In essence the Sox can't complain, they got a ticket for driving 85 in a 65 when no one else did for going 70 in a 65 last year. But this year there appears to be even more teams doing packaged deals with the Rays almost 100% mirroring what the Sox did value wise and we see nothing but tumbleweeds on that front.

[Jack Flap]

What they did was shady as hell, they got caught for it, and IMO the punishment is appropriate. I don't think it's the end of the world either way.

 

Hopefully the league is taking a close look at other teams' practices as well.

[Kimmi]

I get it, the Red Sox broke the rules and if someone else did it it doesn't justify it. You can't justify a murder if your friends gets away with one, but I don't like seeing people bash the Sox for this on one hand and then turn around and bury their heads in the sand about other teams.

 

If you look at last year, out of every team who had restrictions the Sox did this with a higher profile player than anyone else, signing Guaimaro out of Venezuela who was ranked by MLB at#18. Now as a point of reference the guys ranked above and below him were signed for 1.3 and 1.2 million dollars. They also took Simon Muzziotti who was a top 30 guy for 300K as well.

 

So the Sox did it, they are paying the price and all things considered they're not paying that hefty of a price when you really think about it. Guys are being taken away from them they otherwise would not have any chance of having.

 

But if this is a message from MLB to deter other teams from doing it, then we SHOULD be angry and we SHOULD feel that the Sox are getting the short end of the stick if nothing happens to the Yankees or Rays.

 

Both those teams are under restrictions this year but somehow the Rays were able to sign both the 18th and 31st ranked prospect for under 300K, both guys and to give you an ideal of what those guys sign for take a look at the following link.

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/134058394/clubs-sign-top-july-2-international-prospects

 

There is no way those teams are making those deals without circumnavigating the rules the same way the Sox did. The Yankees are also tied in to the #25 prospect, there is no way he is signing for 300K without some kind of package deal.

 

If this truly isn't a witch hunt, then something will have to give here because that is literally happening. If the Sox are alone on this then how are the Rays getting Diego Infante and Roimer for 300K and how are the Yankees getting Roancy Contreras???

 

In essence the Sox can't complain, they got a ticket for driving 85 in a 65 when no one else did for going 70 in a 65 last year. But this year there appears to be even more teams doing packaged deals with the Rays almost 100% mirroring what the Sox did value wise and we see nothing but tumbleweeds on that front.

 

Good information here Hugh - thanks.

 

It will be interesting to see what other details come out about this, and what other punishments, if any, are handed down.

[User Name]

The Sox were the one punished because they were the ones who were doing it in a more blatant manner. Let's not pretend there's anything else going on here. I understand their reasoning too, since it's standard practice and you need any edge you can get stockpiling talent, but don't be stupid about it.

[Hugh2]

The Sox were the one punished because they were the ones who were doing it in a more blatant manner. Let's not pretend there's anything else going on here. I understand their reasoning too, since it's standard practice and you need any edge you can get stockpiling talent, but don't be stupid about it.

 

I agree but I'm having a hard time seeing what exactly they did to be more "blatant" about it. The only thing I see (and it's pretty damning actually) is the Sox signed higher end talent that anyone else last year under restrictions. They had zero business being anywhere near able to sign Muzziotti and Guamaro. No one came close to signing guys that good.

 

But that looks to be exactly what the Rays are doing this year by locking up Diego Infante, and Roimer Bolivar. There's just no other precedent for guys that talented signing for 300K or less (correct me if I'm wrong here).......other than the Red Sox doing it last year.

[User Name]

The Sox have been making significantly more package deals than any other MLB team, and the authorities had been on their trail for a while. They got caught because they were stupid about it.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox nabbed multiple top 30 prospects and somehow avoided a big bonus? Yeah, that smells. Maybe other teams do it, they probably do. Throwing NY in there might be right, I don't know. What I do know is we didn't get a single top 30 guy last yr and this yr we got one, #25, who wanted to sign in NY no matter what. While it is entirely possible we are guilty, I think the sox were far more blatant. You don't get guys in the top 20 for less than a million, typically. And to get a couple at a fraction of that smells.

[Hugh2]

The sox nabbed multiple top 30 prospects and somehow avoided a big bonus? Yeah, that smells. Maybe other teams do it, they probably do. Throwing NY in there might be right, I don't know. What I do know is we didn't get a single top 30 guy last yr and this yr we got one, #25, who wanted to sign in NY no matter what. While it is entirely possible we are guilty, I think the sox were far more blatant. You don't get guys in the top 20 for less than a million, typically. And to get a couple at a fraction of that smells.

 

That's such a naive way of looking at it, guys who have ranked around 25 get between 1-2 million every year. There is no way a 16 year old from latin american is taking 300K just because he wants to play for who happens to be your favorite team.

 

That's a package deal right there. Literally the Sox nabbed one more guy in the top 30 last year than the Yankees did this year. Is that were you draw the line between ok/not ok?

 

If the MLB is going to come down hard on the Sox for this then they should make sure they are taking it out of the game across the board otherwise.

 

They really need to just end all this and have a international draft already.

[moonslav59]

They really need to just end all this and have a international draft already.

 

What if they did the draft like the NBA? Mix both together in one mega draft. Maybe add 8-10 rounds to the current draft.

[cp176]

Hey - how about that 22nd prospect of ours. Henry Ramos has been putting on quite a show lately. He has fought through some season ending injuries over the past few years. he is fairly big strong kid. Interesting to keep an eye on him.

[Jasonbay44]

They really need to just end all this and have a international draft already.

 

What if they did the draft like the NBA? Mix both together in one mega draft. Maybe add 8-10 rounds to the current draft.

I like that idea, aside from maybe adding more rounds. I think the draft is long enough. Teams are literally drafting guys that have no chance of playing in majors as it is. Torii Hunter and Ken Griffey Jr both got drafted just due to their dads playing in MLB, despite the fact neither play baseball anymore. Then you have teams drafting NFL players like Manziel, Jake Locker and etc that have no interest in playing baseball.

[moonslav59]

I like that idea, aside from maybe adding more rounds. I think the draft is long enough. Teams are literally drafting guys that have no chance of playing in majors as it is. Torii Hunter and Ken Griffey Jr both got drafted just due to their dads playing in MLB, despite the fact neither play baseball anymore. Then you have teams drafting NFL players like Manziel, Jake Locker and etc that have no interest in playing baseball.

 

But if you added international players into the draft, that's a lot of talent entering the pool. A few more rounds might be needed.

[Jack Flap]

They really need to just end all this and have a international draft already.

 

What if they did the draft like the NBA? Mix both together in one mega draft. Maybe add 8-10 rounds to the current draft.

 

I'd rather see this simply because more teams would get a chance at top talent this way...as opposed to some team like the Braves or Diamondbacks getting the top domestic prospect AND the top international prospect in separate drafts.

[mvp 78]

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2016/07/andrew_benintendi_boston_red_s_7.html#incart_river_index

 

Benintendi is now batting .289 with a .348 on-base percentage, .512 slugging percentage, .860 OPS, six homers, three triples, 13 doubles and 28 RBIs in 44 games for Portland.

 

Reminder: Betts was batting 355/443/551 while in AA. Benintendi's OPS is still well behind where Betts' was.

[moonslav59]

Benintendi is now batting .289 with a .348 on-base percentage, .512 slugging percentage, .860 OPS, six homers, three triples, 13 doubles and 28 RBIs in 44 games for Portland.

 

Reminder: Betts was batting 355/443/551 while in AA. Benintendi's OPS is still well behind where Betts' was.

 

Benintendi is now hitting .330/.395/.626 in his last 31 games. Now that's like Betts!

 

Yoan Moncada has now reached base in 10 of his first 21 July plate appearances.

 

These guys are as close to ML ready as can be. I don't want to open the same can of worms again, but I think it's got to be close to time to start giving Moncada some reps at 3B.

 

[Emp9]

But if you added international players into the draft, that's a lot of talent entering the pool. A few more rounds might be needed.

 

I don't know why, but I always envisioned a separate draft later on in the year for the international players. Geography, travel, media coverage concerns, education systems might not align timeline-wise vs USA HS or 2 yrs of College eligibility. I could be over-thinking it i suppose.

[mvp 78]

With Betts, you don't have to cherry pick games to get his beastly numbers. Beintendi is good now, but should be there for a while longer.

[Hugh2]

While I'm generally against "cherry picking" it's so much more subjective in the minor leagues. If a guy is playing the level really really well he never sticks around long enough to have a really large sample size.

 

Also, these guys are constantly moving up from level to level and it's hard to hold against a guy what he does his first week or two at a new level when he is adjusting.

 

Look at what Bogaerts did his first month in AA, he hit good but his 21/1 KK/BB strike out ratio would have made a lot of skeptics. But context is also always needed in the equation he was new to the level and one of the youngest guys in the league.

 

Benintendi is still a prospect and a lot can still go wrong, but he's had what has amounted to 2 bad weeks and has mashed it ever since. He has a higher floor than most other highly regarded prospects and while (I'll say it again) a lot can still go wrong there is a really good chance we have an all star in the making.

 

However I agree with the opinion that he should spend some more time in the minors. While he might be really really close he likely still has a few things to learn before being MLB ready.

[Jack Flap]

While we're talking about cherry-picking, Devers is hitting .362 with a .931 OPS since June 1st. Looks like he is figuring out High-A.

[mvp 78]

I like Benintendi and believe he can be the opening day LF in 2017. I just think the Sox should just let him finish AA in July and have him play in Pawtucket through the end of the season. He's already played 25 more professional games than he did last year.

 

If they want to do a September call up and let him hang out with Papi for a few weeks, it's fine with me. I just don't know why they'd throw him into the fire today. If JBJ or Betts gets injured, I could be persuaded otherwise.

[Hugh2]

I like Benintendi and believe he can be the opening day LF in 2017. I just think the Sox should just let him finish AA in July and have him play in Pawtucket through the end of the season. He's already played 25 more professional games than he did last year.

 

If they want to do a September call up and let him hang out with Papi for a few weeks, it's fine with me. I just don't know why they'd throw him into the fire today. If JBJ or Betts gets injured, I could be persuaded otherwise.

 

I pretty much agree with this. I'm very against rushing Benintendi at all this year but if he's still mashing it in AAA come late august and JBJ/Betts goes down I'd have zero problem giving him a shot. Otherwise keep him in the minors, but he should be moved up to AAA at some point if he keeps hitting.

[Kimmi]

I like Benintendi and believe he can be the opening day LF in 2017. I just think the Sox should just let him finish AA in July and have him play in Pawtucket through the end of the season. He's already played 25 more professional games than he did last year.

 

If they want to do a September call up and let him hang out with Papi for a few weeks, it's fine with me. I just don't know why they'd throw him into the fire today. If JBJ or Betts gets injured, I could be persuaded otherwise.

 

I fully agree with this, but if the Sox start scuffling or hovering around .500 ball, and part of it is due to lack of LF production, I can see them throwing Benintendi into the fire to try to give the team a spark.

[Hugh2]

While we're talking about cherry-picking, Devers is hitting .362 with a .931 OPS since June 1st. Looks like he is figuring out High-A.

 

As I was saying before, context also must be painted into the picture as well. Devers is the 3rd youngest player in the Carolina league this year.

 

I forget the exact number but someone reported (soxprospects or BA) that Devers has only faced 1-2 pitchers younger than him his whole professional career so far.

[mvp 78]

I fully agree with this, but if the Sox start scuffling or hovering around .500 ball, and part of it is due to lack of LF production, I can see them throwing Benintendi into the fire to try to give the team a spark.

 

I'm just not sure if it's worth it this year. I get it that it's Papi's last season and they want to give him a bunch of October at bats. However, I just don't think this rotation is good enough right now to rush anyone.

[Jack Flap]

BP's midseason top 50 is out:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=29756

 

#2 Moncada

#11 Benintendi

{#16 Margot }

#19 Devers

#24 Espinoza

Edited July 7, 2016 by Jack Flap

[Jack Flap]

As I was saying before, context also must be painted into the picture as well. Devers is the 3rd youngest player in the Carolina league this year.

 

I forget the exact number but someone reported (soxprospects or BA) that Devers has only faced 1-2 pitchers younger than him his whole professional career so far.

 

Oh, I definitely agree. I wasn't too worried by his cold start for that very reason...and it makes it even more impressive to see him raking now.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

What I find frustrating is reportedly this was common practice, in that other teams were doing it.

 

Ah, the old Spygate defense!!

[mvp 78]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/red-sox-release-justin-maxwell-to-sign-with-kbos-lotte-giants.html

 

Justin Maxwell released. Was on AAA roster.

[moonslav59]

BP's midseason top 50 is out:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=29756

 

#2 Moncada

#11 Benintendi

{#16 Margot }

#19 Devers

#24 Espinoza

 

WOW! Thanks, Ben!