2016 Prospects Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Devers is immensely talented, but he is sucking hard in A ball right now. Pump the brakes on him being a big leaguer for awhile. Also, it is entirely possible Groome doesn't sign. It all depends on what the sox are offering him. He wont sign for slot at 12, he will be signing for much more, like what the Yanks had to do with their kid. The sox are likely working on deals with the rest of their top 10 and then will come back to Groome with what is left. That is what we did with Rutherford and what I expect you to do with Groome. I think there is a better than average chance he signs as long as the sox come to him with an above slot deal. Also, remember, he is going JuCo. It is entirely possible he doesn't sign, goes JuCo and ups his draft stock going into next season

[User Name]

...or gets injured and has TJS. Just food for thought for himself and his agent.

[User Name]

Simply because I think that our minor league system seems to be a little over rated for the most part ( regardless of what the so called experts say) I'm cooling my jets just a bit but if I have seen an athlete that just looks like the next great one, it is Moncada. Like I have said over and over, Benintendi looks small compared to most of his teammates. Hope he gets to the level we all think that he can get to. Rosario, Coyle, and Romanski look solid but Moncada just once again stands out. He has the tools to be very special.

 

"So called" experts? Interesting.

[a700hitter]

[h=1]Red Sox reportedly could be penalized over 2015 international signings[/h] [TABLE]

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[TD][/TD]

[TD=align: right]06.30.16 at 10:16 pm ET[/TD]

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By Ryan Hannable

 

 

According to Baseball America, the Red Sox could be penalized over their 2015 international signings. Major League Baseball has been investigating the Red Sox on whether they signed several Venezuelan players from the same training programs last year in “package deals.” The Red Sox were limited to signings of no more than $300,000 last year and they signed top ranked outfielders Albert Guaimaro and Simon Muzziotti.

 

 

The report says the penalties against the Red Sox could be imposing signing restrictions for the upcoming international signing period and possibly making several of the team’s top 2015 international signings free agents — which would include Guaimaro and Muzziotto.

 

This is significant because the 2016 international signing period begins on July 2 and the Red Sox were already said to have several deals in place.

 

 

For more Red Sox news, visit weei.com/redsox.

 

Don't we have enough bean-counters to keep track of this stuff?

[moonslav59]

Yes/No

 

We get the #13 pick next year if we fail to sign him along with our other 1st round pick. Guys like Groome fall, but it's very rare that a guy who was rated the #1-3 prospect by every scouting source on talent pre draft falls that far. It would be highly unlikely someone as talented as him falls.

 

The 13th pick is consolidation enough to not blow up their draft the next two years for Groome, but I think they are going to make a serious push for him.

 

They haven't signed all 1-10 yet, Groomes team could be posturing in the hopes that the Sox try to save as much money on other picks to give to him.

 

Think of it this way, If Groome turns down 4 million he'd be turning down the 2nd highest offer ever turned down to re-enter the draft in a much deeper draft and even though he still might be top 10 talent a LOT can happen. He has a rookie agent, this guy is probably just posturing and trying to make a name for himself. If he signs Groome to anything above slot he looks like a hero.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I hope we can sign this guy.

[Jack Flap]

That's kind of what I was getting at, Hugh. The stars aligned for us to get one of the top talents in the draft at #12 this year, but we can't count on something like that happening again.

 

Groome should be someone you pull out all the stops for.

[cp176]

"So called" experts? Interesting.

 

Good reading! experts. They are called experts. I don't know them so if they are "experts" - good. Does conjure up questions for me though. Can you be bad at your job and still be considered an expert? I don't know the answer to that one. Probably my choice of words was wrong once again. Should have said that I was much less than excited by what I saw in Portland as compared to what I read was supposed to be in Portland. Benintendi and Dubon look interesting and Moncada looks like the real deal. I'm always learning so I'm no expert.

[Jack Flap]

Good reading! experts. They are called experts. I don't know them so if they are "experts" - good. Does conjure up questions for me though. Can you be bad at your job and still be considered an expert? I don't know the answer to that one. Probably my choice of words was wrong once again. Should have said that I was much less than excited by what I saw in Portland as compared to what I read was supposed to be in Portland. Benintendi and Dubon look interesting and Moncada looks like the real deal. I'm always learning so I'm no expert.

 

Sounds like you got the main stuff in Portland. Ted Stankiewicz is the only other top 20 prospect (#16) residing there currently...most of the roster, I'm sure, is filler, as with any minor league team. What was it that you found unimpressive there?

Edited July 1, 2016 by Jack Flap

[Bellhorn04]

Don't we have enough bean-counters to keep track of this stuff?

 

Unbelievable.

[User Name]

What the Red Sox are being investigated for is cheating the system. You're misinterpreting what the problem is here.

[Bellhorn04]

What the Red Sox are being investigated for is cheating the system. You're misinterpreting what the problem is here.

 

Yeah, that's the way I read it too. I just don't understand why they would try it. Easy enough to get caught, obviously. Should withhold judgment until verdict is in, I guess.

[User Name]

Yeah, that's the way I read it too. I just don't understand why they would try it. Easy enough to get caught, obviously. Should withhold judgment until verdict is in, I guess.

 

It's common practice, but the Sox pushed the envelope. I've been following this incident closely since news first broke out a while ago, and it seems like MLB is looking for someone to make an example of. In this case, if the Red Sox become the example of what happens when you bend the rules, they have it coming. Several industry sources have come out saying they've signed huge package deals with some of these academies, and that's just asking for trouble.

[Hugh2]

Simply because I think that our minor league system seems to be a little over rated for the most part ( regardless of what the so called experts say) I'm cooling my jets just a bit but if I have seen an athlete that just looks like the next great one, it is Moncada. Like I have said over and over, Benintendi looks small compared to most of his teammates. Hope he gets to the level we all think that he can get to. Rosario, Coyle, and Romanski look solid but Moncada just once again stands out. He has the tools to be very special.

 

Rosario, Coyle, and Romanski are organizational prospects. Maybe not Romanski, he has a chance but I doubt he's more than a back up catcher.

 

Why do you think our system is overrated???

[Hugh2]

Devers is immensely talented, but he is sucking hard in A ball right now. Pump the brakes on him being a big leaguer for awhile. Also, it is entirely possible Groome doesn't sign. It all depends on what the sox are offering him. He wont sign for slot at 12, he will be signing for much more, like what the Yanks had to do with their kid. The sox are likely working on deals with the rest of their top 10 and then will come back to Groome with what is left. That is what we did with Rutherford and what I expect you to do with Groome. I think there is a better than average chance he signs as long as the sox come to him with an above slot deal. Also, remember, he is going JuCo. It is entirely possible he doesn't sign, goes JuCo and ups his draft stock going into next season

 

Devers is old enough to be a sophomore in college, playing in high A. He's one of the youngest guys in the league. You can count on one hand how many pitchers he's faced in his pro career who are younger than him.

 

In June he's batting .313/.352/.386. He effectively had one bad month, which given his age and need for adjustment is meaningless. In fairness so is this sample size and I would like to see more power, but he's young it's a SSS, Salem and the Carolina league is notorious for no power. But you're right, he's young and so far away. I think you're spot on with your analysis with Groome and Rutherford, BTW I think the Yankees might have finally broken their streak of horrible 1st round draft picks with this kid. Still young and far away but on perceived talent alone he's easily your most exciting pick in over a decade from what I can remember.

[Hugh2]

Good reading! experts. They are called experts. I don't know them so if they are "experts" - good. Does conjure up questions for me though. Can you be bad at your job and still be considered an expert? I don't know the answer to that one. Probably my choice of words was wrong once again. Should have said that I was much less than excited by what I saw in Portland as compared to what I read was supposed to be in Portland. Benintendi and Dubon look interesting and Moncada looks like the real deal. I'm always learning so I'm no expert.

 

Short answer Yes. semi short answer. If you suck at your job you inevitably get fired or go to jail. Not trusting the experts without knowing any of them would be like not believing or trusting any doctors because you don't know anything about medicine or personally know the doctor. If 99 out of 100 doctors tell you to take this medicine or you will die......odds are you're swallowing that pill.

[Hugh2]

Unbelievable.

 

What I find frustrating is reportedly this was common practice, in that other teams were doing it. They didn't break any real rules, it was more like working around them.

 

In the same way that it's common practice to throw a draft pick with a 500K slot value 10K and then pocket 490K to allocate to another pick teams who couldn't sign guys to more than 300K were signing multiple guys with the same agent from the same camp to 300K deals.

 

This isn't like what St. Louis did, it feels more like the Sox are being turned into an example.

[Hugh2]

Maybe I should read all comments before just posting one by one lol, I pretty much just reiterated Users point.

[Emp9]

What I find frustrating is reportedly this was common practice, in that other teams were doing it. They didn't break any real rules, it was more like working around them.

 

In the same way that it's common practice to throw a draft pick with a 500K slot value 10K and then pocket 490K to allocate to another pick teams who couldn't sign guys to more than 300K were signing multiple guys with the same agent from the same camp to 300K deals.

 

This isn't like what St. Louis did, it feels more like the Sox are being turned into an example.

 

You mean they did the exact same thing they're trying to do to sign Groome, essentially? The Red Sox are guilty of allocating. Lol I'm mean, I haven't heard or read anything other than every team in the league does this, but somehow the Red Sox are the criminals.

 

The kicker for me is that I've been all for an International Draft, which would regulate all this nonsense (atleast bring it out of the shadows), but MLB seems to be dragging their feet.

[Hugh2]

You mean they did the exact same thing they're trying to do to sign Groome, essentially? The Red Sox are guilty of allocating. Lol I'm mean, I haven't heard or read anything other than every team in the league does this, but somehow the Red Sox are the criminals.

 

The kicker for me is that I've been all for an International Draft, which would regulate all this nonsense (atleast bring it out of the shadows), but MLB seems to be dragging their feet.

 

Well it's not really the same thing, it's probably a poor analogy. The point is that teams always try to work around the rules, not necessarily break them. It should be up to MLB to change the rules if they don't like it but they shouldn't penalize and make an example out of a team just change the dang rule.

[cp176]

Sounds like you got the main stuff in Portland. Ted Stankiewicz is the only other top 20 prospect (#16) residing there currently...most of the roster, I'm sure, is filler, as with any minor league team. What was it that you found unimpressive there?

 

I know that I am being cornered here but that's ok. They have not been a competitive team in any way this year. That for one is unimpressive. I realize what a AA franchise is all about. I get that. In comparison to most of Reading's roster, the Seadogs looked small. That surprised me. Stankiewicz was very disappointing. In general, I have read a great deal about the strength of the Red Sox minor league system this spring. Sorry, I have to see these strengths before I believe them. Dubon - maybe someday- Benintendi - probably. Moncada - yup. Players at the single A level are still a long ways away. With virtually no pitching prospects at the AA the AAA level, I choose not to get caught up in the proverbial buzz just yet about how good our prospects are and what we might get for trading any of them. Moncada, once again, stood out to me and he didn't play on the night that I was there. They were over matched top to bottom but it still is a great place to go and watch a game.

[User Name]

So, you saw them one night, didn't like what you see, and that invalidates the opinions of guys who do this for a living? I don't see it.

 

It's not even an appeal to authority, but if the industry consensus is that the system is loaded, I will tend to believe that they're not making it up.

[Emp9]

Well it's not really the same thing, it's probably a poor analogy. The point is that teams always try to work around the rules, not necessarily break them. It should be up to MLB to change the rules if they don't like it but they shouldn't penalize and make an example out of a team just change the dang rule.

 

Yeah, it's definitely more convoluted than that, but the tactics are strikingly similar and the end goal is the same. I agree, they should change the rule if they don't like the rule. It's no secret every team takes advantage of it.

[cp176]

Rosario, Coyle, and Romanski are organizational prospects. Maybe not Romanski, he has a chance but I doubt he's more than a back up catcher.

 

Why do you think our system is overrated???

 

In your estimation, do you think that we are loaded up with top level prospects in Portland and Pawtucket?

[cp176]

So, you saw them one night, didn't like what you see, and that invalidates the opinions of guys who do this for a living? I don't see it.

 

It's not even an appeal to authority, but if the industry consensus is that the system is loaded, I will tend to believe that they're not making it up.

 

I would just say that I absolutely expected to see more on that one night than I did. It is a choice I am making I guess. Right or wrong, I choose to see some results before formulating an opinion that says we have a loaded farm system. For the record, I like what I saw. Had a great night.

[Hugh2]

I know that I am being cornered here but that's ok. They have not been a competitive team in any way this year. That for one is unimpressive. I realize what a AA franchise is all about. I get that. In comparison to most of Reading's roster, the Seadogs looked small. That surprised me. Stankiewicz was very disappointing. In general, I have read a great deal about the strength of the Red Sox minor league system this spring. Sorry, I have to see these strengths before I believe them. Dubon - maybe someday- Benintendi - probably. Moncada - yup. Players at the single A level are still a long ways away. With virtually no pitching prospects at the AA the AAA level, I choose not to get caught up in the proverbial buzz just yet about how good our prospects are and what we might get for trading any of them. Moncada, once again, stood out to me and he didn't play on the night that I was there. They were over matched top to bottom but it still is a great place to go and watch a game.

 

If you knew anything about the Red Sox system you would know that the Portland team was empty of any talent. Up until recently they didn't have one single guy who projects as a MLB starter. You also do realize that there are multiple levels of minor league baseball? AAA, AA, high A, low A, short season A, rookie leagues and Dominican summer leagues? Taken the weakest team of 8 in the system and using that as an indictment of the system as a whole seems a bit biased to me.

 

Yes the top of the system is weak, but that's because in recent years they've graduated Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, JBJ, Barnes, Wright, Shaw, Vasquez. No team, not even those with some of this decades best farm systems have elite talent at all levels, that is virtually unheard of. I see a very nice wave of talent coming up behind our recent graduates....who by the way were called by many Sox fans grossly overrated and busts because they had an adjustment period at the MLB level.

[Hugh2]

I would just say that I absolutely expected to see more on that one night than I did. It is a choice I am making I guess. Right or wrong, I choose to see some results before formulating an opinion that says we have a loaded farm system. For the record, I like what I saw. Had a great night.

 

So you are judging the whole system, based on one night, in one game, against one pitcher??? I'm sure you could have gone to see Babe Ruth one night and he might have gone 0-4 and anyone could decipher he sux from that.

[Hugh2]

In your estimation, do you think that we are loaded up with top level prospects in Portland and Pawtucket?

 

Estimation? I'm not a scout nor do I professional evaluate talent. Also scouting isn't exactly an "estimation business" and up until recently no, Benintendi and Moncada are elite but just reached Portland.

 

AA/AAA do have some very intriguing bullpen arms, with some guys reaching triple digits and high 90's. I also wouldn't completely rule out guys like Henry Owens or Brian Johnson.

[Jack Flap]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 8m8 minutes ago

Boston will not be allowed to sign any international amateurs during the 2016-17 b/c of violations, and contracts of players involved voided

 

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 5m5 minutes ago

Contracts of five BOS prospects voided, including including OFs Simon Muzziotti, Albert Guaimaro, P Cesar Gonzalez, INF Antonio Pinero.

 

 

Damn.

[mvp 78]

Thanks Ben.

[Jack Flap]

I know that I am being cornered here but that's ok. They have not been a competitive team in any way this year. That for one is unimpressive. I realize what a AA franchise is all about. I get that. In comparison to most of Reading's roster, the Seadogs looked small. That surprised me. Stankiewicz was very disappointing. In general, I have read a great deal about the strength of the Red Sox minor league system this spring. Sorry, I have to see these strengths before I believe them. Dubon - maybe someday- Benintendi - probably. Moncada - yup. Players at the single A level are still a long ways away. With virtually no pitching prospects at the AA the AAA level, I choose not to get caught up in the proverbial buzz just yet about how good our prospects are and what we might get for trading any of them. Moncada, once again, stood out to me and he didn't play on the night that I was there. They were over matched top to bottom but it still is a great place to go and watch a game.

 

That wasn't my intent, sorry. Just was curious why you came to that conclusion.

 

I don't think it's any secret that the reputation of our current prospect group is due more to the quality at the top rather than quantity...after the top 4-5 there is a steep drop off, and as I mentioned, most players on a minor league roster are ultimately organizational filler or guys who will never sniff the major leagues (and aren't really expected to) anyway. So going to a game and expecting the whole roster to be loaded with studs, and deciding the system must be overrated because it isn't, is really missing the point. Again, if you picked out Moncada and Benintendi and (maybe) Dubon, then you hit most of the prospect highlights from Portland. There wasn't much to watch there before those guys were promoted.