The search for an ace

[Dojji]

I believe it is a cyclical thing -- in that the O's, Rays and Jays are either peaking of peaked very recently, greatly limiting what the Red Sox can do to ensure they win consistently.

[cp176]

I believe it is a cyclical thing -- in that the O's, Rays and Jays are either peaking of peaked very recently, greatly limiting what the Red Sox can do to ensure they win consistently.

 

Cyclical as to winning it all or being competitive year in year out?

[Bellhorn04]

Cyclical as to winning it all or being competitive year in year out?

 

I think the only way you can do comparisons that make any sense at all is using W-L records.

[a700hitter]

I think the only way you can do comparisons that make any sense at all is using W-L records.

If the team plays better than .500 ball which it has done with few exceptions since 1967, that is a winning team. I am not very demanding in that regard, because a team that plays better than .500 is usually playing some meaningful games in September. Recently, we have not had meaningful games in August. If expecting the Red Sox to play better than .500 makes me entitled, then I plead guilty. However, this has been my expectation before Theo Epstein was born.

[Bellhorn04]

The worst examples of an entitled attitude among Sox fans that I have seen occurred during the years 2008-2011, when I saw constant abuse being heaped on management and players for one reason or another.

 

That was before I joined this forum, so everyone here is off the hook.

[User Name]

If the team plays better than .500 ball which it has done with few exceptions since 1967, that is a winning team. I am not very demanding in that regard, because a team that plays better than .500 is usually playing some meaningful games in September. Recently, we have not had meaningful games in August. If expecting the Red Sox to play better than .500 makes me entitled, then I plead guilty. However, this has been my expectation before Theo Epstein was born.

 

Massive backpedaling. Anyone who's been here a couple of years knows you've always been a "WS or bust" guy.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think expectations are linked to media hype, payroll and ticket price. If a team comes into a season knowing they are going to suck and their ticket prices go up, fans have the right to be upset.

[cp176]

I think the only way you can do comparisons that make any sense at all is using W-L records.

 

That is what I have tried to do.

[sk7326]

You are correct here and once again I will say that we are in the middle of one of the worst runs we have had since the late 50's all the way to 67. With minor blips we have been consistently competitive year after year. I do not believe that it is a cyclical thing at all.

 

It is hard for any sort of "worst run" to include a World Freaking Series Banner ... the disappointments in 2012, 2014-15 have sucked because the team on paper looked to be better than that. But the Butch Hobson teams were much more depressing.

[Bellhorn04]

The worst stretch for me was 1980-1985. The post-dismantling years.

[Dojji]

Cyclical as to winning it all or being competitive year in year out?

 

I believe that cycles depend on more than the raw roster strength of any one team. That's just the only part of the equation the team can control, so it's rightly emphasized. However, when all 3 of the usual punching bags in the division are also competitive teams in a given year it's insane to have the same expectations for the Red Sox that you'd have if they were still bottom feeders. What happened this year was very much essentially losing fights we normally don't even have to face.

[cp176]

The worst stretch for me was 1980-1985. The post-dismantling years.

 

I agree with you there. We were fairly competitive just the same for the most part but it sure didn't feel very good. When the "rocket" appeared on the scene, do you remember how you felt? I know I do very well. It is unbelievable how that one big gun at the top can calm everything else down. Lonborg - Clemens - Pedro, Schilling and I would include Lester.. We have had some other good ones but they represented something very special. I think that there is a real need to have that go to guy for a lot of reasons not just their start every fifth day.

[Spudboy]

I agree with you there. We were fairly competitive just the same for the most part but it sure didn't feel very good. When the "rocket" appeared on the scene, do you remember how you felt? I know I do very well. It is unbelievable how that one big gun at the top can calm everything else down. Lonborg - Clemens - Pedro, Schilling and I would include Lester.. We have had some other good ones but they represented something very special. I think that there is a real need to have that go to guy for a lot of reasons not just their start every fifth day.

 

Don't forget Sonny Siebert!!!!!!!

[Kimmi]

It is hard for any sort of "worst run" to include a World Freaking Series Banner ... the disappointments in 2012, 2014-15 have sucked because the team on paper looked to be better than that. But the Butch Hobson teams were much more depressing.

 

As you said, the teams in 2012, 2014, and 2015 looked better on paper, IMO, good enough to contend. It didn't work out, but it's not like the FO did not do its job in putting together a good team.

 

It's been a whole two years since the Sox won a World Series. Ouch.

[Kimmi]

The worst examples of an entitled attitude among Sox fans that I have seen occurred during the years 2008-2011, when I saw constant abuse being heaped on management and players for one reason or another.

 

That was before I joined this forum, so everyone here is off the hook.

 

IMO, that constant abuse on management and players is still going on.

[a700hitter]

As you said, the teams in 2012, 2014, and 2015 looked better on paper, IMO, good enough to contend. It didn't work out, but it's not like the FO did not do its job in putting together a good team.

It's been a whole two years since the Sox won a World Series. Ouch.

It is exactly like that.

[a700hitter]

IMO, that constant abuse on management and players is still going on.

Abuse? Seriously? Talking about management in a critical manner is abuse? I don't think so. Abuse of players? Despite the facts that some huge ayholes go to Fenway, I can't think of too many players on the recent last place teams being abused by the Fenway Faithful.

[cp176]

Don't forget Sonny Siebert!!!!!!!

 

Hey - I kind of liked Sonny to be honest with you - don't forget Ray Culp

[a700hitter]

Hey - I kind of liked Sonny to be honest with you - don't forget Ray Culp

Culp was an excellent pitcher when healthy. I was at his last good game -- a 2-1 victory over the Yankees on the 4th of July 1973 at the original Yankee Stadium.

[mvp 78]

Abuse is far too harsh a word. Didn't hear as many boobirds the past few years. For the back to back putrid seasons, you think fans would have been over the top with disgust. Frankly, the high cost of a Sox game insulates the team from a lot of the negativity.

[Bellhorn04]

Hey - I kind of liked Sonny to be honest with you - don't forget Ray Culp

 

My earliest Sox memories involve guys like Siebert and Culp, with Ken Coleman calling the games. Siebert had a no-hitter going one night and Fenway was rocking. This is how I became a Sox addict.

[Bellhorn04]

Abuse is far too harsh a word. Didn't hear as many boobirds the past few years. For the back to back putrid seasons, you think fans would have been over the top with disgust. Frankly, the high cost of a Sox game insulates the team from a lot of the negativity.

 

Strange but true.

[cp176]

Abuse is far too harsh a word. Didn't hear as many boobirds the past few years. For the back to back putrid seasons, you think fans would have been over the top with disgust. Frankly, the high cost of a Sox game insulates the team from a lot of the negativity.

 

If you are saying what I think you are saying here, I agree and I think that it is a good point. What types of fans can afford to go Fenway these days on a regular basis?

[GomesBeard]

The Sox actually had a decent second half of the season, so not a lot of reason to boo them then. They also had a decent home record (43-38)

[Behindenemylines]

The search is complete. They get a top five pitcher in all of baseball with Price. They had to over pay, but they had to get a top of the order starter.

[a700hitter]

Back on topic.

 

Everyone must commit here. Who is the "ace" the sox will trot out on opening day this year?

 

I am going with Cueto

 

DD knows Price and acquired him in a trade. I am betting on Price coming to Boston and starting on Opening Day. I think we will also land at least one other FA or big trade, maybe Carrasco, O'Day, Soria, or a hitter. It should be exciting.

How did the rest of you do in your predictions, if you ventured to make one? Edited December 3, 2015 by a700hitter

[GomesBeard]

Here is what I said back on Page 20 -

 

Is Cueto an ace? I'm not sure..... I will say Price. Love to see the 'welcome' text from Big Papi on that one.....

[sk7326]

Here is what I said back on Page 20 -

 

Is Cueto an ace? I'm not sure..... I will say Price. Love to see the 'welcome' text from Big Papi on that one.....

 

Cueto is an ace - but what is inside his elbow is very much an open question

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Don't forget Sonny Siebert!!!!!!!

 

Nice pull old man.

[Orange Juiced]

The search is complete. They get a top five pitcher in all of baseball with Price. They had to over pay, but they had to get a top of the order starter.

 

Based on the Greinke contract, Price's doesn't look like an overpay anymore. But yes, they definitely got their ace. Outstanding.